Baton Rouge officer: Alton Sterling reached for a gun before he was shot

[TwoNineMarine]

Only ten thousand murders? That's only slightly more than drunk driving!

You would focus on that. Not surprising!!

10k is a drop in a bucket.

Is it shitty? Yes.

Is it worth depriving people of an Amendment right? No.

[Daymanmb]

And yet out of those 400 million or so weapons in the US there are only about 10k deaths due to firearms a year (subtracting suicide of course).

It's barely a fraction of a percent.

It's almost as though the overwhelming majority of people are good and don't go shooting people.

Well you cant go from total weapons to total deaths, but I get your point.

Accurately youd need to look at total gun owners vs total deaths and of course itll be about 4x more seeing as there is only about 100m gun owners, which NBC reports: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...-finds-n384031.

So we take 318m/3 = 106m gun owners. (1 in 3)

106m gun owners/11k gun deaths (just deaths) = a fraction of a percent still, but none the less, 4x what youre suggesting.

Now if we take a look at gun related crimes: "According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013, firearms were used in 73,505 nonfatal injuries" and we add that to the 11k death from the same year and were still dealing with a fraction of a percent but thats 85,000 gun crimes a year!

In a 10 year span, over 100k people dead and nearly a million gun crimes. How is this okay? Will people start to care when we see, based on these numbers alone (which are relatively low compared to some years), that in 20 years 220k People have died by guns in the USA?

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Is it worth depriving people of an Amendment right? No.

What youre failing to see is, there is middle ground between all guns for all and no guns for anyone.

[jackofwind]

In a 10 year span nearly 100k people dead and nearly a million gun crimes. How is this okay?

Pretty much for the reasons you noted earlier in your post - the US is a country with a massive population.

I believe that even if we were talking about a North American country consisting of the Us, Mexico, and Canada combined, and the gun death rate didn't change from the 85,000 people you mentioned, you'd still have people clamouring about needing to get rid of all the guns. (ie: no one pays attention to the percent, only to the total number of incidents).

It's a goofy thing, because you're more likely to get killed by a bee sting than by a police officer no matter what your racial identity is, but people in general don't think twice about bees. With every shooting comes the well-known backlash from the family, tirades against the police, and all the other well-trodden events that we've gotten so used to by now - but the amount of outcry over individual shootings makes the problem seem so much bigger than it really is.

Now, don't get me wrong, it's a tragedy when an officer of the law needs to shoot someone, and an even greater one when that person doesn't deserve it. But it's thoroughly naive to believe that in a country of about 320 million people there are not going to be tragic events occurring every single day. That's just the nature of things when you're looking at them from a broad scope. Of course gun crime is higher in the US than it is in other countries, but we're not talking about the causes of gun crime really here, we're talking about the effects of living in a country that has a gun culture like the US does.

Perhaps its time to get to the root of the problem and deal with the causes of the distrust, fear, and paranoia that come with living within such a gun culture. It doesn't have to be all guns or no guns, both of which seem to be making US citizens feel unsafe.

[Daymanmb]

you'd still have people clamouring about needing to get rid of all the guns. (ie: no one pays attention to the percent, only to the total number of incidents).

This topic requires people in the middle. No one polarizaed by this discussion should be a part of it, in my opinion. Everyone who is a part of it, needs to understand the middle ground and the difference between, all guns for all and no guns for anyone. Appropriate limitations of some guns and tighter security checks isnt asking a lot, at the end of the day.

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But it's thoroughly naive to believe that in a country of about 320 million people there are not going to be tragic events occurring every single day.

Youre right, but we should still do everything we can do, to limit those occurrences, at every step of our society.

[TwoNineMarine]

Well you cant go from total weapons to total deaths, but I get your point.

Accurately youd need to look at total gun owners vs total deaths and of course itll be about 4x more seeing as there is only about 100m gun owners, which NBC reports: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...-finds-n384031.

So we take 318m/3 = 106m gun owners. (1 in 3)

106m gun owners/11k gun deaths (just deaths) = a fraction of a percent still, but none the less, 4x what youre suggesting.

Now if we take a look at gun related crimes: "According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013, firearms were used in 73,505 nonfatal injuries" and we add that to the 11k death from the same year and were still dealing with a fraction of a percent but thats 85,000 gun crimes a year!

In a 10 year span, over 100k people dead and nearly a million gun crimes. How is this okay? Will people start to care when we see, based on these numbers alone (which are relatively low compared to some years), that in 20 years 220k People have died by guns in the USA?

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What youre failing to see is, there is middle ground between all guns for all and no guns for anyone.

Sure. I see your logic and will use those numbers in future debates.

And it's not that it's "ok" that those people are dying.

What it is is that gun owners have accepted the fact that there is a level of risk when it comes to owning weapons. But we know that it's not the weapon that makes the decision to kill someone; it's the person behind the weapon.

I've had my AR for 5 years now and it's yet to kill a single thing.

Gun owners aren't opposed to lowering these deaths. We just happen to think that the bigger issue lies with mental health throughout this country. That coupled with poverty and lack of jobs drives people to do stupid shit. I certainly believe that those should be our biggest focus, not an inanimate object.

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We also do have background checks. There are very few gun owners I think who would be opposed to checks that span the nation vs just a state. And it's not our fault if the FBI runs a check, declares a guy good, then he gets a gun and murders people. That comes back on them for not doing a thorough enough search.

[Tempguy]

I think black people have to give police the benefit of the doubt on this one, the accused was a career criminal, you can see him doing something stupid and getting himself shot.

That guy in Minneapolis is a different story, that man should be alive.

I have been saying this shit for a while now. Every single martyr I see that shows off police violence towards blacks has been a horrid example.

If you are armed, and being arrested, why in the fuck is it a good idea to resist? Can someone answer me that? And why in the fuck would you look at the supposed many cases of blacks being killed wrongly, and decide that this is the example of brutality you want to stop?

Pick better martyrs black people!

I am not even saying to stop the cause. I am just saying that someone mid burglary, or resisting arrest, or not even killed by a cop, is a poor example of police misconduct.

[Steve French]

Pretty much. I see nothing about the 93% black murder victims killed by other blacks. I'm fed up with all of this BS BLM terrorist movement.

The only deaths they care about are ones they can take advantage of.

[jackofwind]

I am not even saying to stop the cause. I am just saying that someone mid burglary, or resisting arrest, or not even killed by a cop, is a poor example of police misconduct.

But why only get arrested when you can get tackled, tazed, hit, possibly shot, and also arrested!

How many times do you think people successfully resist arrest? My guess is that it pretty much never works. I don't understand the compulsion to 'not go quietly' when it's no like you're getting sent to your death or anything like that.

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The only deaths they care about are ones they can take advantage of.

IMO we need more black cops. When the shootings don't decrease in number people will be forced to realise they're not actually racially motivated shootings.

[Daymanmb]

And it's not our fault if the FBI runs a check, declares a guy good, then he gets a gun and murders people. That comes back on them for not doing a thorough enough search.

No one is placing blame here, but you shoulndt be arguing that more shouldnt be done to try to prevent this, especially considering that we employ, on the federal level(FBI), certain measures as protection against this sort of gun misuse. If nothing else, to explore how the FBI does it and how efficient and effective thy are at it, afteral Im sure we could agree on wanting that system to be effective and to ensure that the money we give the FBI, is being used properly.

All I have is my opinion and it is that, we are not addressing the real problems and until we start asking the right questions, we wont find a suitable compromise.

But this has really derailed into gun control. Even though the two may have some correlation... Im going to stop discussing it here.

[Tempguy]

But why only get arrested when you can get tackled, tazed, hit, possibly shot, and also arrested!

How many times do you think people successfully resist arrest? My guess is that it pretty much never works. I don't understand the compulsion to 'not go quietly' when it's no like you're getting sent to your death or anything like that.

IKR? I want to post that vid "I can break these cuffs" but I got banned for my last vid for spam. So you can search it yourself if you don't get what I am referring.


Anyway, I don't understand why people think they can resist? It's the dumbest idea ever. The BEST case scenario is that you get time added on to whatever you get charged with and thus stay behind bars longer.

[GennGreymane]

People say guy didnt
Cop said guy did

I'll wait for more evidence.

[Steve French]

Last year there were 4,224 murders, not all of black people, among a population of 37,685,848 black Americans. Are you telling me that it's OK to treat nearly forty million people like criminals because of the actions of 0.01%?

Why don't we apply that same logic to police?

[TwoNineMarine]

No one is placing blame here, but you shoulndt be arguing that more shouldnt be done to try to prevent this, especially when we employ on the federal level(FBI), certain measures as protection against this sort of gun misuse.

All I have is my opinion and it is that, we are not addressing the real problems and until we start asking the right questions, we wont find a suitable compromise.

But this has really derailed into gun control. Even though the two may have some correlation... Im going to stop discussing it here.

And again I just happen to disagree on what needs to be addressed. I think it's a mental health problem and not a gun availability problem.

But either way I agree that it's derailed a bit. I hope you have a great day!!

[Steve French]

"But he started it!"

That's a fucking childish answer and a complete cop-out.

Like this response isn't? Why avoid answering if you actually believe what you're saying?

[Daymanmb]

Like this response isn't? Why avoid answering if you actually believe what you're saying?

Are you purposely dredging up Page 2 stuff to rehash that fight?

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I hope you have a great day!!

Right back at you! For what its worth, I learned theres a Vancouver Washington today

[Steve French]

Are you purposely dredging up Page 2 stuff to rehash that fight?

Guess I'm just late to the party, or a slow reader... take your pick.

[TwoNineMarine]

Are you purposely dredging up Page 2 stuff to rehash that fight?

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Right back at you! For what its worth, I learned theres a Vancouver Washington today

=D

You should have seen when they held the Olympics in Vancouver, Canada! People reserved hotels here and stuff thinking it was here and not Canada D=

[Daymanmb]

=D

You should have seen when they held the Olympics in Vancouver, Canada! People reserved hotels here and stuff thinking it was here and not Canada D=

Hahaha thats awesome! What a disappointment your town must be for so many people lolol.

[TwoNineMarine]

Hahaha thats awesome! What a disappointment your town must be for so many people lolol.

It's actually a very nice town! But it's certainly not a place for the Olympics lol

[Daymanmb]

It's actually a very nice town! But it's certainly not a place for the Olympics lol

Oh, I dont mean it in that sense! Just for people expecting Vancity BC must really feel a bit trolled.