[BETA] Destruction Warlock Discussion

[Bjarkan]

For stack Erradication + Roaring Blaze (i dont mean stack multiple Roaring Blaze tho), which is the more efficient way to doing it:

1) Having Erradication on the target before of using Immo + Conflag

2) Having Immo on the target, casting Chaos Bolt, then casting Conflag

This is mostly for avoid SS overcap, but is useful knowing it for other situations.

P.D.: sorry if is hard to understand the question, have some troubles trying to finds the right words.

[Turturin the Warlock]

For stack Erradication + Roaring Blaze (i dont mean stack multiple Roaring Blaze tho), which is the more efficient way to doing it:

1) Having Erradication on the target before of using Immo + Conflag

2) Having Immo on the target, casting Chaos Bolt, then casting Conflag

This is mostly for avoid SS overcap, but is useful knowing it for other situations.

P.D.: sorry if is hard to understand the question, have some troubles trying to finds the right words.

You'll can't keep eradication up 100%. So the goal is maximize the ticks of roaring blaze with eradication while still maximizing roaring blaze overall.

So it's option C. Get roaring blaze up, then chain as many bolts as you can.

[Baconeggcheese]

@Bjarkan Ideally I imagine you'd have the immolate and conflags already out and you'd CB after since eradication only lasts 6 seconds and only has around a 50-60% up time where you're gonna be rolling those immolates basically the entire time. I honestly wouldn't sweat worrying about min-maxing eradication around roaring blaze. Proper roaring blaze usage will make eradication happen naturally.

[Aldeen]

Once you have 3 charges on conflag from the set bonus, it's a little more complicated. you can't gear for a 7.8 second recharge (1/3 of 23.4), since you would need 12/7.8 = ~54% haste.

I think you're forgetting about the reduced cooldown that comes with the set bonus increasing the no. of charges Conflag has. It reduces the charge cooldown by 3 seconds from how I understood it, meaning that you'd need 9/7.8 = ~15% haste to recharge 3 Conflags in a pandemic'd Immolate window.

[Dastey]

What is truly interesting about the 18 seconds duration on immolate is that conflagrate has 12 seconds CD and therefore 24 seconds in order to get 2 charges. This means that if we can hit 25 % haste Roaring Blaze will most likely become absolutely insane as conflagrate CD hits the same as immolate duration allowing us to do immolate > conflag > conflag every single time.
With 2 piece bonus it becomes 27 seconds for 3 charges which means we require 33% haste, and if we can hit that number (or close to) once again Roaring Blaze will be mental with immolate > conflag x 3

These will most likely be the best points of haste you can get under those circumstances, but whether it will be better than mastery I doubt, but I will leave that to some simcraft numbers

Just quoting my own post for people wondering about haste and roaring blaze.
Take in mind the math may not be correct (although I think it is) and the fact I didn't take extending the duration of immolate into consideration.
Extended the duration if you just do it once in the beginning and then let it eat a couple of seconds of your immolate each time will make it so you need a smaller amount of haste, but not by a lot

[Deleted]

....[snip]...

So without set bonus, usage is easy. you get pandemic up, then use both charges of immolate. refresh immolate WITHOUT CLIPPING and repeat the cycle.

Could you please elaborate what you mean with "WITHOUT CLIPPING"? Wouldn't you have to clip to get the pandemic for your next immolate?

[Saprobie]

Definitely a bug if that's happening

It was definitely a bug as it seemed hotfixed in the most recent minor patch. I did Halls of Valor with the F&B bug (honestly thought I'd misread something as it only seemed to affect Immolated targets in the dungeon) then relogged for the minor patch and did HoV again and it had disappeared. Tis a shame, I liked how it worked, made for some crazy numbers hah.

[FelPlague]

btw idk if you guys know but with roaring blaze or whatever it is (im super tired) using immolate, then conf adds the damage.. .using immolate then 2 confs does not add more damage... so immolate+1 conf is the same a 1 immolate+5 confs...

about to go to sleep, when i wake up i will take some screenshots for yall

nevermind aparently it was bugged, but is now doing what yall are saying, nvm, yeah it does stack

[Baconeggcheese]

nevermind aparently it was bugged, but is now doing what yall are saying, nvm, yeah it does stack

Just in case: If you tested inside the class order hall lots of things bug out in there for some reason. I'd recommend never testing in there if you were.

[janzy]

Hello fellow warlocks, I have a question about our bottom tier talents. Obviously Havoc will be used for cleave fights.

For single target and AoE situations has anyone done testing into if CDR or SC will be more useful currently and the current thought process behind when to use which talent?

[Baconeggcheese]

@janzy CDF is for single target, or fights that are almost entirely single target. Go WH when you're going to make use of the up time, if not then default to SC for any other situation.

[Deleted]

Even with a full aoe build, it's depressing to do dungeons and do half, or even less of the damage of fucking melee cleaver or tanks, that do really STUPID dps

And then you arrive on bosses, and you're even more screwed because you can't respect freely and you have an aoe build

I dont see any of the 3 spec being able to do correctly mythic dungeon

[Fallensaint]

Hello fellow warlocks, I have a question about our bottom tier talents. Obviously Havoc will be used for cleave fights.

For single target and AoE situations has anyone done testing into if CDR or SC will be more useful currently and the current thought process behind when to use which talent?

From what I've seen between testing and fiddling with sims is that for sustained single target damage CDF and SC do nearly the same DPS. CDF can be slightly better if you take it with Mana Tap and play perfectly, but the damage gain is marginal at best. Where the two talents differ is on other situations. SC is better for AoE and mobile damage because it works with RoF and Shadowburn, respectively. CDF is better for burst, because it's reliable and can be used along with CB in short windows where you would normally be limited by resources.

[Tehterokkar]

Even with a full aoe build, it's depressing to do dungeons and do half, or even less of the damage of fucking melee cleaver or tanks, that do really STUPID dps

And then you arrive on bosses, and you're even more screwed because you can't respect freely and you have an aoe build

I dont see any of the 3 spec being able to do correctly mythic dungeon

Destro has insanely strong AoE if you have enough time to allow it to develop. Immolate everything, spam Rain of Fire. Even at 5 targets, you rarely have time for anything but Immolate refreshing, Conflagrate and Rain of Fire.

Plus GoSac can proc from Rain of Fire, so the damage can be pretty nuts. If you want/need burst AoE, you can go with Cataclysm which is only a 45s CD now.

[Baconeggcheese]

Even with a full aoe build, it's depressing to do dungeons and do half, or even less of the damage of fucking melee cleaver or tanks, that do really STUPID dps

And then you arrive on bosses, and you're even more screwed because you can't respect freely and you have an aoe build

I dont see any of the 3 spec being able to do correctly mythic dungeon

The funnest part is when you do a massive pull in a dungeon and then drop a lord of flames infernal, go out grab a drink and some snacks, come back and have found you just completely decimated everyone cause of 1 global.

[JV Chequer]

Even with a full aoe build, it's depressing to do dungeons and do half, or even less of the damage of fucking melee cleaver or tanks, that do really STUPID dps

And then you arrive on bosses, and you're even more screwed because you can't respect freely and you have an aoe build

I dont see any of the 3 spec being able to do correctly mythic dungeon

I completely disagree with you. Right Now Warlock it's on a pretty great spot. With some strongest kit of all classes, demigod on cleave, great at constant aoe and great on pure ST. The only big weak right now on Destro lock it's on occasional burst aoe even so u can snipe some shadowburns to refresh every of yours Shards bursting your dps on ST.

[Fallensaint]

Even with a full aoe build, it's depressing to do dungeons and do half, or even less of the damage of fucking melee cleaver or tanks, that do really STUPID dps

And then you arrive on bosses, and you're even more screwed because you can't respect freely and you have an aoe build

I dont see any of the 3 spec being able to do correctly mythic dungeon

Destro locks have a very strong kit, but you're going to have a bad time if you don't pick the right tools for the job. Going for a full AoE build in dungeons isn't effective for two reasons: One, as you noticed it tanks your single-target boss DPS. Two, most trash doesn't live long enough for you to make full use of your kit, so by the time you get rolling the party's already moved on.

Instead, you should roll with one of two abilities: Grimoire of Sacrifice or Cataclysm. Both talents are solid for trash DPS, and both are also not too terrible for single-target damage. You can take both, but that's overkill (especially if you also use Soul Conduit). GoSac is free passive AoE DPS, and Cata is high burst AOE DPS on a mid-length cooldown (short enough to be used frequently for trash). Fire and Brimstone isn't bad for AoE DPS, but since it's useless for single-target damage it's not very versatile for dungeons. The rest of your talents should be geared for single-target DPS.

[Baconeggcheese]

Yeah I really don't understand the doomsaying at the start of every expansion. Maybe for newer / inexperienced players who don't understand how these things go I could see it... but I mean.. once you've been through 1 xpac cycle you should know better.

[Turturin the Warlock]

I think you're forgetting about the reduced cooldown that comes with the set bonus increasing the no. of charges Conflag has. It reduces the charge cooldown by 3 seconds from how I understood it, meaning that you'd need 9/7.8 = ~15% haste to recharge 3 Conflags in a pandemic'd Immolate window.

You are correct. I'd forgotten about that aspect of the bonus.

[Smog]

Yeah I really don't understand the doomsaying at the start of every expansion. Maybe for newer / inexperienced players who don't understand how these things go I could see it... but I mean.. once you've been through 1 xpac cycle you should know better.

Though it is pretty entertaining when you frequent multiple class forums and learn that apparently /everyone/ is the worst class in the game and won't be taken to mythics.

It's almost like aoe vs cleave vs ST in talents is a choice everyone has to make now. But nah, let's cry victim instead! It's more fun!