[FIRE] Legion Beta Megathread

[pyrostorm9001]

Also regarding Cinderstorm, you can use it to delay your fireball spamming while Fireblast is depleted. Lets say you are done with your opener and your have 0 Fireblast charges available, a Cinderstorm cast gives me enough time to allow my Fireblast to gain (or be close to gaining) a charge for my Heating Up fishing.

[Light]

After extensively testing my ret on beta and being disappointed with the class, I switched to my mage and am having an absolute ball with fire. Definitely going to at least start off playing my mage as my main, at least with the current iteration of the spec.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure why you think Cinderstorm wouldn't be worth casting on a single target, though. With all 6 cinders, you're doing 507% spellpower of damage, compared to Pyroblast's 420%. It looks like you should be keeping it on cooldown no matter how many targets there are.

Oh i wasn't sure, i was asking the question, sorry if it didn't come across as such, my initial thoughts that were the fact if you are single targeting then you should be using your procs or building procs and advancing EP with fireball, with a 9s cooldown using cinderstorm on pure single target is going to equal alot of potential lost HS procs over a 10min fight say, since it generates only ignite damage and does not benefit from lvl 15 talents either or critical mass, also bearing in mind that HS pyros generate double ignite damage, generate HS and do benefit from critical mass?

Also meteor has the advantage of being instant cast, so on movement and you have no procs/fireblast fill in a gap cinder cannot?

EDIT: I'm no massive maths geek but here goes:

Lets say our base crit is 40% and mastery is 20% for ease of numbers.

Cinderstorm on ST(6 cinders+ignite buff)- 507*1.4=709.8% Direct damage> 709.8+(709.8*0.2)=851.76% Total damage per cast.

HS Pyro on ST- 420*1.52=638.4% Direct damage> 638.4(638.4*0.4)=893.76% Total damage per cast

As you can see when you factor in double ignite damage from HS and Crit mass pyro is ahead by 42% SP not to mention it generates HS procs and potentially can also grant a free pyro if you take pyromaniac.

If i'm missing something please let me know, like i said im no maths wizz!!!

[Sarm]

No worries. But I dunno, I guess it depends on how things shake out when sims are done. I don't really see Cinderstorm as a lost opportunity for a Hot Streak though, and more of an awkward guaranteed one every time you use it. It's true that you can't proc Heating Up with it, but it also buys you a little bit of time waiting for your next Fire Blast to come off cooldown before you go back to Fireballs. More often than not, you're probably going to be casting fewer overall Fireballs instead of fewer instant Pyroblasts.

[Deleted]

No worries. But I dunno, I guess it depends on how things shake out when sims are done. I don't really see Cinderstorm as a lost opportunity for a Hot Streak though, and more of an awkward guaranteed one every time you use it. It's true that you can't proc Heating Up with it, but it also buys you a little bit of time waiting for your next Fire Blast to come off cooldown before you go back to Fireballs. More often than not, you're probably going to be casting fewer overall Fireballs instead of fewer instant Pyroblasts.

Yeah that also makes sense, i do like the idea of using it to bridge the cd of fireblast though, since like you said it almost does as much as HS Pyro, still though, fewer fireballs still means fewer pyros in the long run.

Will defo be interesting to see what the sims say.

[Deleted]

To clarify what I meant with Cinderstorm was that it feels awful to use, not necessarily that it is bad. It will def be worth using on some AoE fights but I'm not sure how it will math out for ST. The dmg is indeed quite decent when all 6 cinders hit (507% SP base) although pyro scales better due to Hot streak (2*ignite) and Critical Mass (1.3* to crit) while also being able to trigger HU. At lower ilvl cinderstorm might be worth using while at higher ilvl it might be forsaken for more pyro spam. It is all going to depend on whatever the time casting Cinderstorm is worth the lost Pyros from potential fireball crits.

My main gripe with it is the curve and distance it travels which makes it "tricky" to use in dungeons. Trying to get them to hit the Training Dummy is a good target practice, at least in raids the bosses will have a larger hitbox. Interesting spell and our position is going to be quite important with it, still believe Kindling will be better at 110 but Cinderstorm might win at 100.

[Zereye]

Are there any reliable sims out yet for each of the specs? Ive been watching for them pretty intently and Ive yet to see anyone talk about them.

[dark666105]

Does each cinder crit proc a stack of pyretic incantation or do you only get one stack even if say combust is up and they all crit?

[Ctee]

Slight nerf to pretty much every spec today in the latest build, although fire seems to have gotten off easier.

[ErothTV]

After extensively testing my ret on beta and being disappointed with the class, I switched to my mage and am having an absolute ball with fire. Definitely going to at least start off playing my mage as my main, at least with the current iteration of the spec.

I feel You bro, and I am really thinking about the same.
Ret is terribad. After testing Fire mage in PvP it does seem really fun, however I am afraid he will get the nerfbat coming.

Though, Felo'melorn... ;-)!

[The Archmage]

After testing Fire mage in PvP it does seem really fun, however I am afraid he will get the nerfbat coming.

Fire will be nerfed at some point. It's easy enough to see to anyone that has some sort of experience in the game. Currently, it sits at:

- best ST
- best AoE
- best Burst
- best Survivability

Something is clearly wrong, unless they want all Mages on the game play a single spec :P

[masterprtzl]

After messing around in mythic HFC on the PTR, fire feels amazing. The only thing that I really dislike is that Flame On is not like Combustion / Fire Blast. It should be castable while casting other spells imo.

Other complaints that apply to all specs is Rune of Power which is as clunky or clunkier than current Prismatic Crystal.

The only person to really compete with me on Damage was a single unholy DK in my guild. I am pretty ridiculously geared, running 11 sockets all crit at the moment. 61% crit with food buff or so. Did not get a chance to swap to mastery to see the different yet but seemed to work really well.

[Telomir]

After messing around in mythic HFC on the PTR, fire feels amazing. The only thing that I really dislike is that Flame On is not like Combustion / Fire Blast. It should be castable while casting other spells imo.

Other complaints that apply to all specs is Rune of Power which is as clunky or clunkier than current Prismatic Crystal.

The only person to really compete with me on Damage was a single unholy DK in my guild. I am pretty ridiculously geared, running 11 sockets all crit at the moment. 61% crit with food buff or so. Did not get a chance to swap to mastery to see the different yet but seemed to work really well.

What will the rotation look like during pre-patch? And what openner did you use? Which first tier talent, sir/ma'am? Thank you.

[Zoopercat]

The Ask Mr. Robot simulator is now updated with the latest patch for all DPS specs.

As I mentioned last week, you can verify all of the updates. For example, Pyroblast was reduced to 400% spell power, which you can verify on the spell wiki page. In the damage formula, you see the first number is 4, for the 400% multiplier.

We also did a bunch of work on the Fire mage rotation (APL) for fun. You can see what the rotation is doing here (and if you want to play with it, click copy at the top. I also have a 5 min video reviewing the entire APL interface and logic).

If you want to test out artifacts, you can easily edit them or add/remove relics in the simulator. Just click on any part of the artifact interface to change it - that easy. Here's a 1-minute video showing all of the character customizations in the simulator.

Bug fixes in the simulator: Blast wave no longer has 2 charges.

/whew, that covered it I think! If you have questions, you can also hit us up in our discord chat channel.

[masterprtzl]

What will the rotation look like during pre-patch? And what openner did you use? Which first tier talent, sir/ma'am? Thank you.

Didnt have anything too set in stone yet for the opener, was basically attempting to get as many pyroblasts in a combustion/ring with my rune of power down as possible. I was using the following talents as I was unable to leave and swap them to test them since we were in a rush

Conflagration
Shimmer
Rune of Power
Flame On
Ice Floes
Living Bomb
Cinderstorm


Opener was something like

Prepot
Precast pyro
Rune of Power
Fireblast at last second of rune of power cast, twice if no crit on pyro
Fireball / Combust last second
Pyroblast
Fireblast / Pyroblast alternating using flame on for more charges

After opener for things like manorath or hands on Korm, I made sure to time Rune of Power / Living Bomb to go off as the adds were spawning with the damage buff from Living Bomb, additionally timing a flamestrike as adds spawned so I can cast a Cinderstorm on them with the buffed damage from ignite.

Otherwise, use inferno blast while casting fireball to get as many instant pyros as possible, use charges of rune of power with adds or with flame on to get many instant pyros. You have to feel it out depending on your level of crit.

Once legion hits we will have Phoenix Flames to throw into the mix.

Again, not sure if thats all perfect but it seemed to be working relatively well.

Here are some logs:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&fight=13

Prtzls is my mage.

Keep in mind that some of the numbers will be low as many of our raiders had never been on the beta and had very very minimal time on PTR. Additionally, things like Gorefiend were a challenge for me personally as I could not dps the boss at the start. My ignite was spreading to all the stacked souls left behind from shadow of death which was causing a headache so instead of going a spec I had no idea what I was doing with, I just decided to stay fire and not dps boss much prefeast, including missing an entire opener. I was still able to have secondm ost damage on any pull I was alive, sadly our kill pull had about half the raid dying off and the active time of most of the raid was awful.

We were unable to kill manno in the few pulls we had, our prot pally was going down VERY fast and not having multiple death grips was causing a ton of problems. We are likely going to have to run 4x blood DK with glyphed (2 min CD) grip or relearn the fight entirely. Xhul was similarly challenging as we could no longer completely cheese empowered chains with evanesce, and the lack of grips made imps harder to kill. Not having grounding totem for Void Surge also threw off some players as well. Even with the 40% hp and 30% damage nerf, those two fights are very hard.

Would recommend double blood DK if your guild can field it in the upcoming prepatch. Havent tested warrior/monk/bear yet since we dont have any main spec ones but our Pally would require a 100% babysit by our holy pally.

Our guild normally clears this instance in 1, maybe a boss or two on the second night, while carrying two people for mount/gear sales. If the current iteration of HFC goes live, many guilds will have to relearn many fights mechanically, additionally sales might 2-4 times in price as many guilds may no longer be capable of selling it.

[ErothTV]

Fire will be nerfed at some point. It's easy enough to see to anyone that has some sort of experience in the game. Currently, it sits at:

- best ST
- best AoE
- best Burst
- best Survivability

Something is clearly wrong, unless they want all Mages on the game play a single spec :P

You know.. there's always a FOTM for period of time... :P

[masterprtzl]

Fire will be nerfed at some point. It's easy enough to see to anyone that has some sort of experience in the game. Currently, it sits at:

- best ST
- best AoE
- best Burst
- best Survivability

Something is clearly wrong, unless they want all Mages on the game play a single spec :P

Or you know, they could bring other specs in line with fire. They have nerfed fire many patches in a row on some level, so its not like they arent trying. They just dont want to kill the spec all together.

[Imaskar]

The only person to really compete with me on Damage was a single unholy DK in my guild. I am pretty ridiculously geared, running 11 sockets all crit at the moment. 61% crit with food buff or so. Did not get a chance to swap to mastery to see the different yet but seemed to work really well.

And the DK and Pally were in all greens?
I mean, Unholy damage is top ATM. And why does Prot Pal have such issues with surviving? Does he geared for HP instead of haste?

Btw, I see you have shadow pries. What do you say about them on beta?

[The Archmage]

Or you know, they could bring other specs in line with fire. They have nerfed fire many patches in a row on some level, so its not like they arent trying. They just dont want to kill the spec all together.

It's possible but unlikely and potentially dangerous. At the moment, Fire ranks very high between all dps specs , not only Mage ones. Getting all specs to that level would mean to tweak 20 or so specs, with the risk of messing things up and requiring even more tuning, as opposed to just nerfing and re-tuning the 3-4 of them that are stronger.

I think it's safer to say that Fire will be toned down.

[masterprtzl]

And the DK and Pally were in all greens?
I mean, Unholy damage is top ATM. And why does Prot Pal have such issues with surviving? Does he geared for HP instead of haste?

Btw, I see you have shadow pries. What do you say about them on beta?

Prot pally is missing a ton from not having his artifact is my understanding. They are just insanely squishy at level 100. Hes not stacking stam and using stam trinkets if thats what you are asking. I have extreme amounts of confidence in our paladin tank so if hes dying as fast/much as he is, something has to be wrong.

Like I said, I have 11 sockets, it gives me a pretty distinct advantage over many of our raiders. Our unholy DK was able to beat me on some pulls but I was still beating him on others.

Shadow seems pretty sweet, on council he didnt press Surrender to Madness even though he was spec'd it, he just forgot or something. He definitely would have beat me if he pressed it there. Shadow is actually my second character going into legion in case we have too many mages or fire ends up getting nerfed into the ground.

- - - Updated - - -

It's possible but unlikely and potentially dangerous. At the moment, Fire ranks very high between all dps specs , not only Mage ones. Getting all specs to that level would mean to tweak 20 or so specs, with the risk of messing things up and requiring even more tuning, as opposed to just nerfing and re-tuning the 3-4 of them that are stronger.

I think it's safer to say that Fire will be toned down.

Like I said, Fire has been toned down. At 110 after getting initially heroic / mythic dungeon gear we will have to see where things stand as thats much more important than the mythic raid testing where every person is 100% maxed out in terms of ilevel, this gives a good vision of the end of the tier where fire gets to scale with its crit a lot more.