Illidan was a god or something

[Maxilian]

It's like applying the "players are the villains" concept in the most nonsensical context imaginable. In MoP the idea was quite well-thought and made sense, but depict us as either bad or dumb for causing the fall of the Outland's Lei Shen is quite hilarious. I mean, if you think about it, even Lei Shen had grand plans in mind. But Illidan it's some sort of incredibly special snowflake with a destiny written in the stars so we have to feel bad for that. Indeed.

I can't say if it's either bad writing or Xe'ra being an unempathetic moron.

I don't think there was much sense of Xe'ra calling us betrayer, maybe Akama, but i'm not sure of that either, he's supposed to be the one who knew Illidan's true plan (but his action and the way he acted prove otherwise)

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This way of looking at this incident always amuses me. Malfurion destroys a continent in the name of defeating the Legion, creates an entirely new ocean, killing god-knows-how-many people in the process -- and he's a hero. Illidan attempts to destroy the Lich King and put an end to the Scourge by destroying Icecrown Glacier, which will likely create worldwide negative effects, and he's bad, wrong or downright evil depending on who you talk to.

That's the power of reputation!!!

[Deleted]

No. It's lazy cop out writing that skips over important parts of character development by using word of god to say everything is cool now. It's bad writing.

Unfortunately you can't deside what is and what isn't bad writing for other people friend.

[Zulkhan]

They are needed, but they don't need to manipulate everyone to fight their eternal war. That's why I always believed Blizzard are building up the Babylon 5 plot since BC (since the introduction of Velen and the Naaru) and now even more.

I don't think there was much sense of Xe'ra calling us betrayer, maybe Akama, but i'm not sure of that either, he's supposed to be the one who knew Illidan's true plan (but his action and the way he acted prove otherwise)

Think I'll go with "Xe'ra is an unemphatetic moron" then. Fucking windchimes.

[Maxilian]

Think I'll go with "Xe'ra is an unemphatetic moron" then. Fucking windchimes.

That works

[Kralljin]

This way of looking at this incident always amuses me. Malfurion destroys a continent in the name of defeating the Legion, creates an entirely new ocean, killing god-knows-how-many people in the process -- and he's a hero.

Sargeras coming through a portal is not the same threat as the Lich King.

Illidan attempts to destroy the Lich King and put an end to the Scourge by destroying Icecrown Glacier, which will likely create worldwide negative effects, and he's bad, wrong or downright evil depending on who you talk to.

Missed the part about the intentions.

Why did he want to destroy the Lich King? Because he wanted to gain Kil'jaedens favor, it's not like that Illidan decided on his own that he needs to defeat the Scourge to prevent them from killing more people.

What is horrendous so far? (at least about BC lore)

1.We only managed to gain a foothold in Outland because Illidan and his Demon hunters killed Highlord Kruul.
2.Illidan seemed to be in a position to defeat the Legion (Wc3 and BC kinda implied that he was hiding from the Legion because he failed to destry the LK).
3.Akama was seemingly aware of the fact that Illidan was able to defeat the Legion, still went on with his Rebellion.
4.Illidan seemingly wanted to give the BT back to Akama once all was over.
5.The Xe'ra questchain kinda makes the player responsible that Illidan was unable to defeat the Legion because we killed him.

[kiramon]

I love people saying illidan being good means we were wrong and that's a bad thing... It makes our characters more real to assume things at face level and is not always doing what's right is exactly how it should be lol

[Pantelija]

i.e. writing you don't like?

You do realise this new Illidan nonsense is copy pasted from SC2 with Kerrigan? Maybe lay off the coke like your idol Metzen

[DemonHunter18]

I love people saying illidan being good means we were wrong and that's a bad thing... It makes our characters more real to assume things at face level and is not always doing what's right is exactly how it should be lol

yeah. also, we are the chosen ones for some artifact bullshit.

[Lycanroc]

Unfortunately you can't deside what is and what isn't bad writing for other people friend.

It is, in fact, bad writing. Not subjectively, either.
However, nothing is stopping you from liking or enjoying it, even if it is terrible.

It irks me that we've had all this character development for Illidan. We knew who he was, where he came from, and why he acted the way he did. His motivations, at times, were a little cloudy. Part of me liked that about him. He was an interesting anti-hero.

However, calling him the 'chosen one' gives him this godly plot armor beyond belief. Now any hero or individual that disagrees with Illidan will automatically look like a colossal moron, even if realistically their quarrels with him are completely justified. Illidan is the ultimate good in the universe now and there was nothing wrong with what he did. He essentially gets a 'get out of redemption free card'.

I wanted to see Illidan redeem himself. I really did. This is absolutely not a redemption story. This is telling us that Illidan was good and "has nothing to prove to us and doesn't have to anymore. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot! LOL" It ticks me beyond belief and it's such a missed opportunity. Illidan used to be one of my favorite characters.

Xe'ra, aka 'Space Mom', is an absolutely abysmal character that is a chore to deal with. I know Naaru supposedly do not enjoy the suffering of others, but she's making me (and I'm sure others) suffer just because of how unemphathetic and moronic her character seems. I'd side with the Void Lords just to be rid of her insufferable dialogue and constant praising of Angeldan, "The Chosen One". It's the same schlock that made people dislike Legacy of the Void. No one wants a repeat of that story, yet they're pretty much doing the worst part of it over ad verbatim. It's beyond extremely lazy. Legacy of the Void only came out a short time ago!

Illidan did a lot of shitty things. Not even subjectively shitty. In fact, a lot of it, in hindsight doesn't add up or make sense with the resources he had. I preferred not knowing if Illidan was a good or evil character. I preferred thinking that his intentions were almost entirely selfish (he was just covering his own ass, not really worrying about anyone else or if the world was prepared to fight the Legion) in the end and that it just happened to be something that ultimately benefited everyone else.

It made him far more interesting than just "Illidan was always in the right. Nothing he did was wrong.". Now we seem like colossal morons for stopping him, as does anyone else in Illidan's story (they seem like even bigger morons!). He has things he needs to answer for, and because now he's the "chosen one" he gets out of all the shitty things he did.

[DemonHunter18]

maybe Xe'ra is Sargeras or Kil'jaden in disguise.

[Qualia]

It is, in fact, bad writing. Not subjectively, either.
However, nothing is stopping you from liking or enjoying it, even if it is terrible.

Not that poster you quoted, but bad writing is actually a subjective matter. Ask around or do some quick researches, you will find that there isn't a conclusive answer of what makes bad writing and people - including professional writers - have different opinions regarding whether one story is good or not. Assuming that we are talking about the settings / plots instead of writing technique of the authors (which is easier to tell a good and bad one apart due to the usage of words, expressions, metaphor, the pacing and such), of course. Shakespeare, for example, is regarded as one of the greatest writer yet Tolstoy - another "one of greatest authors" - considered him (Shakespeare) a terrible writer and openly said that his writing sucks. If even those great writers can't agree whether a piece is good or bad writing, can we?

Thus, I believe it's better to call out what made it bad (in your opinion) rather than just put a "bad writing". Was something illogical? Out of characters? Etc. That'd make it easier to discuss rather than just dumping a "well, it's shit because it's shit".

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Illidan is a Naaru

[Raetary]

Illidan is a Naaru

illidan is the holy old god of the chaotic arcane order corruption of life and death.

[Asotcha]

Sorry that is agent Smith.

That was an amazing episode of Film Theory--totally bought it.

As to the OP, I like the idea that his dim recognition of Elune's power led him to be interested in Tyrande--Never considered it before. All in all, I know there are a lot of people that don't think this new story arc ingame is good for Illidan as a character, but I like it a lot. After all the stuff he's been through he's kind of earned it, and I'm excited to see him as a light infused badass. Kind of hoping it unlocks a third spec for demon hunters who do a special achieve or something.

[Lycanroc]

Thus, I believe it's better to call out what made it bad (in your opinion) rather than just put a "bad writing". Was something illogical? Out of characters? Etc. That'd make it easier to discuss rather than just dumping a "well, it's shit because it's shit".

It's not good because they took the lazy way out. Again, it's fine if you like it, but it's a copy-paste story from Legacy of the Void. If they perhaps weren't so lazy and tried to go about smoothing out their plotholes in different ways that did not contradict what was given, and not give us the most cheap cop-out they possibly could write, I'd say perhaps it was more subjective. As it stands, it's lazy.

I wrote my reasons for thinking it was bad. I'm not trying to stop people from liking it, but it is hard to swallow at face value. The story to me, throws away a lot of the charm from Illidan's character and turns him into something that just does not align with him as we know him. I'm not even saying change is a bad thing, after all, I wanted a redemption story. However, whitewashing his backstory and getting us to accept 'he did nothing wrong' and 'he's the chosen one now' is just an absolutely poor way of redeeming him. I wanted development and progression, not something cheaply copy-pasted from their last big disappointment.

It's disappointing, out of character, lazy, and bland. It's entirely illogical and it makes us seem like morons for not trusting his judgement when there's everything stacked up against it. Not only that, the story rubs it in our face how wrong we were about him as a person. I don't have an issue with us being wrong, but that doesn't forgive his actions.

- Why were the Nether Dragons enslaved if they were perfectly willing to fight the Legion? Seems like you're just making more enemies for yourself. They are intelligent beings and can be reasoned with.
- Why did he enslave some Broken instead of convincing them to fight the Legion. A lot of them already hated the Legion. Only the Ashtongue actually swore fealty. The other groups were forcibly enslaved. He could have even provided something for workers and it would have been no skin off his back.
- I understand why he would ally with the Fel Orcs, but why kidnap normal orcs and forcibly turn them into Fel Orcs? It's not like he really needed additional soldiers on Draenor, seeing as how the Sha'tari, Horde, Alliance, and other factions were fighting Legion forces there. He also had plenty of demons on his own side to act as a bulwark if he really needed the extra protection. Seems like again, he was just making more problems for himself. (I know they were imprisoning Magtheridon.) And if he really needed additional soldiers, he probably could have convinced others more peacefully. It's not like the Legion is friends with anybody sane, really.
- Why did A'dal and the other naaru attack Illidan if he had a great destiny as fortold by the wise windchime beings themselves? Yes, I know it was the Naaru Prime that told him, but it doesn't explain why they really wouldn't know if they're scions of these beings. Shouldn't they already know he's actively fighting against the Legion anyways and about his efforts? Why isn't Xe'ra bitching at them for ruining her master plan, since the NAARU WERE THE ONES ON THE MAIN FRONT AGAINST HIM?
- It makes Akama's reasons for betrayal seem stupid. He felt like his people were not being treated properly, yet he knew Illidan was about to take the fight to Argus itself. Why would he betray him at such a moment that could cost not only his life, but almost everyone else's life and safety? Seems strange.

I'm not asking them to change what he did, I just don't want people to forget. Making him the "chosen one" who "did everything the way he did because it was the right choice" and "he can do no wrong, u r da idiots!" is just so lame. I liked that his reasoning was flawed. I like that he failed. I liked that he was perhaps morally questionable. I don't like him becoming a "chosen one", because it takes away all those aforementioned things. His failures are destined to happen, his reasoning isn't flawed because it gets the job done, his morals are unquestionable because destiny says that no matter what he's always in the right.

It's bad.

[Deleted]

/snip

It doesn't need to be either/or. Even the Lesser Naaru, in the book, first didn't care about Illidan but later joined the battle against him. It's just Xe'ra, the cosmic Light ultimate douche, that doesn't really care about the "lesser beings", just about the grand war.


Xe'ra is the one being painted badly here. Just like the new Kosh when old Kosh died in Babylon 5.

[Lycanroc]

It doesn't need to be either/or. Even the Lesser Naaru, in the book, first didn't care about Illidan but later joined the battle against him. It's just Xe'ra, the cosmic Light ultimate douche, that doesn't really care about the "lesser beings", just about the grand war.


Xe'ra is the one being painted badly here. Just like the new Kosh when old Kosh died in Babylon 5.

I really do dislike Xe'ra. Her characterization is just so, so poor. All my problems with the story really boil down to her and this chosen one crap. :/ I really wish they'd go the route that both factions (Void/Light) are trying to embroil us in a war we shouldn't even be part of and favoring one or the other is ultimately a horrible thing. I mean, shouldn't defeating the Void mean that the universe is thrown out of balance? Vice versa, as well.

There's all this focus with certain aspects of the story where it's good to keep them in balance. It was especially highlighted in the Arakkoa story (and is talked about in some Tauren lore as well.). I wonder if they threw that out in favor of this.

[DemonHunter18]

I also find it funny when people say "now people on Azeroth consider Illidan a good guy". no one on Azeroth said that he is the good guy. that's our headcanon. the only one who sees Illidan as a savior is Xe'ra who accepts him. people on Azeroth hates him, especially his own former people.

[Lycanroc]

I also find it funny when people say "now people on Azeroth consider Illidan a good guy". no one on Azeroth said that he is the good guy. that's our headcanon. the only one who sees Illidan as a savior is Xe'ra who accepts him. people on Azeroth hates him, especially his own former people.

The problem is not that the others see him mystically as a good guy, it's Xe'ra is shoving this information down our throats. It's a little insulting, really. He should have to prove to us his intentions are for the greater good, not have some pretentious windchime being telling us we're idiots for not trusting in 'O holy is he, Chosen One Angeldan'.

[Deleted]

guys Guys GUYS



Let us return to the original question
Was Illidan something else before he was born us a night elf?
remember Lo'gosh was reborn through Varian