Man ignores police demands and is fatally shot

[jackofwind]

That's inhumane. "Oh, sorry sir, your son had an umbrella and there were reports of a guy with a gun roaming the area, but the good news is compared to how many people on earth, it doesn't really matter, so don't fret."

Was he hiding the umbrella behind his back and threatening police officers with it while approaching when they were telling him to show his hands? That's not inhumane, that's a dumbass getting shot for being a dumbass.

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Limbs I don't think is impossible. Depending on the range. Maybe some other type of warning shot would be good. I still think it's worth trying. If there's 2 cops, have one concentrate on de-escalation through different means, and the other ready to neutralize if it doesn't work.

But you've admitted to never firing a gun before, so what you think is irrelevant because you have no actual experience. What happens when you miss the limb because its a low percentage shot and the bullet ricochets? What happens if that ricochet kills someone?

[Gib Lover]

What if someone sinks a piece of lead in your brain?
Statistically irrelevant, aren't you?

No, because the odds are even smaller that a non-criminal would be killed unjustifiably by police.
965 people were killed by police out of ~365,000,000. Of that, how many do you think were law abiding citizens? I'll be generous and say 1/4th.
So 240 innocent people were shot and killed by police last year, let's factor in race now. Over half of those killed last year were white, so let's reduce that number again by slightly less than half as I am indeed white.
150~ is what we will go with.
So if there is a 150/365,000,000 chance every day that I wake up that I will be shot by police, I will take those odds every single day until the day I die, even if I lived to be 1,000.
Statistically irrelevant. If you want to argue that police have a problem with targeting minorities more for traffic stops and things like that, that argument would actually have merit. However, our police absolutely do not kill an abnormal amount of people compared to our population and the number of crimes committed.

[Stonecloak]

And over 99% of police in the US go their entire careers without ever having to discharge their weapons when on-duty. The US has a population of almost 320 million people. The number of police killings are infinitesimally small - something like 0.01%. You have a higher chance of dying to a bee sting than being killed by a cop.

Police gun regulations are designed to mitigate overall damage, speaking at a broad scale. It's easy to cherry pick a bunch of events, emotionally charge them, and then say the police are murderers. People can react strongly, and often react the strongest, to individual instances of violence committed against small numbers of people, because they can relate to them.

In reality, the number of people killed by police in the US is statistically negligible.

It's still an issue obviously. I love cops for real. I always talk to them, show them respect. Say high to them and thank them, but that in no way makes me believe everything they do is perfect or can't be improved. That's just a flawed logic. There should always be strives to make things better.

[Wildtree]

Yes. Statistically speaking, individuals are irrelevant. Gun safety measures are designed to reduce the overall amount of casualties, but that gets lost in the barrage of individual emotion-laden stories we get because people relate to single events and don't look at the big picture.

The most efficient gun safety measure is the absence of a gun.
The more guns, the more unsafe it becomes.
The more unsafe it becomes, the stricter the safety measures (laws) have to become to counter the threat.
But, we aren't necessarily talking about gun laws now.

[Gib Lover]

That's inhumane. "Oh, sorry sir, your son had an umbrella and there were reports of a guy with a gun roaming the area, but the good news is compared to how many people on earth, it doesn't really matter, so don't fret."

People on the earth? I'll go smaller, take that 7bil down to about 365mil.
How to react when a cop shoots an innocent: Punish the officer as you would anyone else that killed someone unjustifiably, the city makes amends however it can with the victims family because the system has failed them, and you move on.
Life sucks and then you die, you absolutely cannot remove the possibility that people are going to accidentally die to police, all we can do is reduce the number as much as possible and make each time it happens a learning experience for every other officer.

[Stonecloak]

Was he hiding the umbrella behind his back and threatening police officers with it while approaching when they were telling him to show his hands? That's not inhumane, that's a dumbass getting shot for being a dumbass.

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But you've admitted to never firing a gun before, so what you think is irrelevant because you have no actual experience. What happens when you miss the limb because its a low percentage shot and the bullet ricochets? What happens if that ricochet kills someone?

When did I admit I never fired a gun lol. You're just making stuff up now.

[Rooflesstoofless]

You guys seriously sound like the worst shots ever. Is there a culture of this actually? "Hey guys, lets try and hit the center at the shooting range!". "F...that, try and just get in the facinity, that's good enough for any situation!". All this talk of gun "intelligence" and it sounds more wrong than I've ever heard.

Next thing you're going to be telling us is that Santa isn't real either.

(Let's also not forget that a bullet to a femoral artery is generally going to be fatal as well and that bullets bounce off bones in the arms and enter the chest cavity causing fatalities)

[jackofwind]

It's still an issue obviously. I love cops for real. I always talk to them, show them respect. Say high to them and thank them, but that in no way makes me believe everything they do is perfect or can't be improved. That's just a flawed logic. There should always be strives to make things better.

Sure, but suggesting things that would make gun use more dangerous isn't the way to do it. I'll take police killing threatening people over police killing innocent bystanders by accident because they're using their weapons irresponsibly any day.

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When did I admit I never fired a gun lol. You're just making stuff up now.

Have you ever fired a gun before. I've asked you 4 or 5 times now and you've avoided answering it every single time. That, coupled with the complete lack of gun safety knowledge you seem to have, makes me believe you've never fired a gun before.

I'm sure most people in this thread believe the same, because that's the picture you've painted for us.

[Gib Lover]

Limbs I don't think is impossible.

not impossible =/= reliably repeatable.

[MasterOfNone]

Limbs I don't think is impossible. Depending on the range. Maybe some other type of warning shot would be good. I still think it's worth trying. If there's 2 cops, have one concentrate on de-escalation through different means, and the other ready to neutralize if it doesn't work.

Impossible? No. Likely? Hell no. Especially in a panic situation. Why train for something that has no realistic chance of having a good outcome? You're scared in those situations. You aim for leg. You miss. Perp whoops out any number of weapons and God forbid hurts you or your partner. Scenario 2. You aim for a hand and you miss. Bullet richochets off ground striking an innocent bystander. You gotta think this through a bit dude.

Edit-before anyone corrects hopefully. I'm fully aware Leo's carry hp rounds and the realistic possibility of richochets is nil, but to counter the quoted poster in my post I'm using it as a "more than likely" statistical chance of happening much like his shooting limb theory.

[Deleted]

Did you guys even watch the video btw?

Can anyone tell me why the fuck the officer did not seize the criminal after the first 2 shots?

They had around ~10 seconds worth of time before he started doing his weird "I hide my evil hand under my t-shirt"-move again and they were literally 4 steps away. Scared of blood? Are they just trained to shoot but not to grab/overtake criminals?

The first two shots (that made him fall to the ground and agonize in pain) might not have killed him, but the 3rd and 4th (from a shotgun) surely did.

[Stonecloak]

People on the earth? I'll go smaller, take that 7bil down to about 365mil.
How to react when a cop shoots an innocent: Punish the officer as you would anyone else that killed someone unjustifiably, the city makes amends however it can with the victims family because the system has failed them, and you move on.
Life sucks and then you die, you absolutely cannot remove the possibility that people are going to accidentally die to police, all we can do is reduce the number as much as possible and make each time it happens a learning experience for every other officer.

Well, that's all I'm asking, and I think more should ask it too. Obviously 100 percent no accidental deaths is a dream, but why not strive for it, because complacency in the system can lead to the issue getting worse.

[Noradin]

If you are not from the USA then you cant really comment on how Police do their jobs from a few stories cherry picked from the media.

If that is the case then please write the mods so they can close this topic.

[kamuimac]

Well, nobody will give a fuck because it's very clear and obvious that he just plain went and fucked up.

It's not always so clear-cut in other shootings, which is where the outrage comes from.

lets be honest - if he wasnt white there would be already mob gathering in front of police station and Obama would make another usless coment on situation..

[jackofwind]

The most efficient gun safety measure is the absence of a gun.
The more guns, the more unsafe it becomes.
The more unsafe it becomes, the stricter the safety measures (laws) have to become to counter the threat.
But, we aren't necessarily talking about gun laws now.

I completely agree, and I think there would be far less police shootings in the US if there were fewer guns in the US. Police basically have to assume whoever they're dealing with has a gun these days, and that's a dangerous place to be.

The solution really doesn't have anything to do with the police, it has to do with better gun regulations. But as long as the NRA holds the power that they do that's not going to happen. The US would be a far safer country if it didn't have the gun obsession that it does.

[Gib Lover]

Well, that's all I'm asking, and I think more should ask it too. Obviously 100 percent no accidental deaths is a dream, but why not strive for it, because complacency in the system can lead to the issue getting worse.

That's what I'm saying though, I'm almost 100% complacent with how the system is now. As long as the police show remorse when they kill an innocent person and take steps to keep it from happening again the same way, I'm fine. I am 100% okay with the number of people killed annually by US police. Less than half of my highschool graduating class dying each year, and most of them being criminals? Completely fine number. It's not like cops drop 1% of our population annually.

[Stonecloak]

Impossible? No. Likely? Hell no. Especially in a panic situation. Why train for something that has no realistic chance of having a good outcome? You're scared in those situations. You aim for leg. You miss. Perp whoops out any number of weapons and God forbid hurts you or your partner. Scenario 2. You aim for a hand and you miss. Bullet richochets off ground striking an innocent bystander. You gotta think this through a bit dude.

I am. I won't say you don't have a point, but I'm not trying to smash this idea as the savior of police enforcements accidental deaths. Ideas, how can a person be contained without death. If we can send satalites in space that communicate with our phones we carry around in our pocket, I think we can brainstorm some better ideas than what we currently have.

[Gib Lover]

lets be honest - if he wasnt white there would be already mob gathering in front of police station and Obama would make another usless coment on situation..

There was a BLM march about this on I believe Saturday. It started in Fresno and they marched into the neighboring town of Clovis and started fights with the locals, shut down the freeway and smashed cars.
Then the morons realized they walked an entire town over and were too tired to get back home.

[Wildtree]

No, because the odds are even smaller that a non-criminal would be killed unjustifiably by police.
965 people were killed by police out of ~365,000,000. Of that, how many do you think were law abiding citizens? I'll be generous and say 1/4th.
So 240 innocent people were shot and killed by police last year, let's factor in race now. Over half of those killed last year were white, so let's reduce that number again by slightly less than half as I am indeed white.
150~ is what we will go with.
So if there is a 150/365,000,000 chance every day that I wake up that I will be shot by police, I will take those odds every single day until the day I die, even if I lived to be 1,000.
Statistically irrelevant. If you want to argue that police have a problem with targeting minorities more for traffic stops and things like that, that argument would actually have merit. However, our police absolutely do not kill an abnormal amount of people compared to our population and the number of crimes committed.

Where do you have 365 million people from now?
I mean, it's all nice and stuff, but if you wanna come across educated, get your numbers straight in the first place.
Besides, nice how you consider yourself not irrelevant..
But, in fact, you are too.
Yet in one aspect you aren't. Your lack of compassion and empathy are actually alarming. It's a sociopath trait. Sociopath's are often turning psychopathic..
And those are the ones that are our biggest problem. They are the breed of people getting unhinged, killing plenty people in the process.
So, people like you, should consequently never ever be anywhere near any firearms.
IF we accomplish that, we'll see the death by police force rates go down too.

[Stonecloak]

That's what I'm saying though, I'm almost 100% complacent with how the system is now. As long as the police show remorse when they kill an innocent person and take steps to keep it from happening again the same way, I'm fine. I am 100% okay with the number of people killed annually by US police. Less than half of my highschool graduating class dying each year, and most of them being criminals? Completely fine number. It's not like cops drop 1% of our population annually.

Ok, so we disagree then, but I still believe especially with the changing state of our country, protests, race issues, ect. The complacency will be a bigger issue as time goes on, and new situations arise that aren't perfectly explained in a textbook.