The Silence Penalty

[Zolaris192]

He's also categorically wrong in every way, as a matter of fact no one but you is responsible for how you react to other people. That's learning to be grown up 101 stuff. If you do not comprehend that basic idea you are in fact a very childish person.

^all of this

[Pantalaimon]

You sound so Victorian when you type lol

*aristocratic English voice* "you common fodder cannot speak to me in such a way that thou would hath trigger my feelings I dare say"

Get over yourself

Thanks for blowing up my notification box to grace me with your insightful wisdom. Next time don't waste forum space by a troll post that has nothing to do with the topic.

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He's also categorically wrong in every way, as a matter of fact no one but you is responsible for how you react to other people. That's learning to be grown up 101 stuff. If you do not comprehend that basic idea you are in fact a very childish person.

If you haven't learned that you have to be mindful of other people to some degree in your life, including your speech, then you are actually the less developed child. Perhaps I can lead you to the works of Lev Vygotsky, Erik Eriskson, or Urie Bronfrenbrenner?

Regardless of how you feel Blizzard has made their decision and the Silence Penalty will be put into effect. If you ever subscribe to the game again you better learn how to talk better to people in game unless you want to perpetually be silenced during your game experience.

[Zolaris192]

Thanks for blowing up my notification box to grace me with your insightful wisdom brah. You've contributed so much to this conversation. Next time don't waste forum space by a troll post that has nothing to do with the topic kthxbai.

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If you haven't learned that you have to be mindful of other people to some degree in your life, including your speech, then you are actually the less developed child. Perhaps I can lead you to the works of Lev Vygotsky, Erik Eriskson, or Urie Bronfrenbrenner so you can discover how much you are lacking in terms of socioemotional & cognitive development?

Regardless of how you feel Blizzard has made their decision and the Silence Penalty will be put into effect. If you ever subscribe to the game again you better suck it up Buttercup and learn how to talk better to people in game unless you want to perpetually be silenced during your game experience.

Looks like I struck a cord with the triggered youth lol

[Pantalaimon]

Looks like I struck a cord with the triggered youth lol

Nah I just don't let internet nobodies with big egos bully me into accepting their view. Big difference.

But I won't be continuing to respond to you as obviously you have nothing of depth to offer, plus I don't want to get an infraction like apparently you want.

[Shakou]

Nah I just don't let internet nobodies with big egos bully me into accepting their view. Big difference.

Dude it's not ego, you're actually wrong. Really wrong. You actually said that other people are responsible for how you react. That is actually one of the key things that separates children from adults as a matter of fact. Life is not about your feelings and other people are not responsible for how you react to things that offend or annoy you.

If you haven't learned that you have to be mindful of other people to some degree in your life, including your speech, then you are actually the less developed child.

You might consider taking your own advice. No one here is bullying you or forcing their opinion on you, someone here *did* point out your own hypocrisy and inability to apparently deal with reality. You and you alone are responsible for your actions and reactions, focusing on changing people around you is not only a lost cause, it is directly the opposite of what you claim to be about. Lead by example, don't sit there and try to point your finger at other people and act all high and mighty while you're being hostile toward people you've only very briefly interacted with.

Good grief.

I can't say that you yourself are like this, but many of the people I have encountered on the internet who are very reactionary toward anyone they claim is engaging in harmful behavior or whatever, and spend so much time criticizing other people are really just bullies and trolls. You don't have to realize you're a bully or a troll or use language that is generally vulgar or inflammatory in order to bully or troll people.

[Seefer]

He's also categorically wrong in every way, as a matter of fact no one but you is responsible for how you react to other people. That's learning to be grown up 101 stuff. If you do not comprehend that basic idea you are in fact a very childish person.

Part of being a grown up 101 is learning not to tell someone to get cancer/aids, to go kill themselves (not knowing the persons mental state), or to use racist and homophobic slurs.......if you do not comprehend that basic idea you are in fact a very childish person.

[Pantalaimon]

Dude it's not ego, you're actually wrong. Really wrong. You actually said that other people are responsible for how you react. That is actually one of the key things that separates children from adults as a matter of fact. Life is not about your feelings and other people are not responsible for how you react to things that offend or annoy you.


You might consider taking your own advice.

Really? Don't see how "Responsibility for how to treat people lies on the person who starts conversation just as much, if not more, than the people who listen to you. People shouldn't be lifted from the consequences of speech for such a weak arguement as 'you can just walk away'." says that I am saying that other people are responsible for how I act. I simply acknowledged that the speaker plays just as much of a role to not act like a jerk as the person listening to whatever is being said. That's simply common sense, you say something rude in game expect one or more people to not like the content of what you said or to like playing with you in game.

As for taking my own advice, I don't extend that towards people that throw the first insult.

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You and you alone are responsible for your actions and reactions, focusing on changing people around you is not only a lost cause, it is directly the opposite of what you claim to be about.

We are responsible for our own actions and reactions, but that is why Blizzard has actually put their foot down on this issue. Too many players have been too toxic in game too long with too many other people. Those types of players have not taken adequate responsibility to not treat other players rudely so Blizzard has brought about this penalty. Yes players do have some freedom in what & how they talk about, but if new players just constantly see trade almost exclusively full of gay bashers, racist verbal diarrhea, and other such things then that has potential to turn off some new players. Regardless of whether someone thinks that such new players would be pansies with thin skin, or justified in their reactions, is moot if Blizzard doesn't want new players turned off because of such rampant toxicity. The game needs new players, not just trying to return the old. If Blizzard thinks non moderated speech in game hurts the image & potential new audience of their product then I applaud them for taking the initiative for putting their foot down, even though this should have been the case from day one.

[Shakou]

Really? Don't see how "Responsibility for how to treat people lies on the person who starts conversation just as much, if not more, than the people who listen to you. People shouldn't be lifted from the consequences of speech for such a weak arguement as 'you can just walk away'." says that I am saying that other people are responsible for how I act. I simply acknowledged that the speaker plays just as much of a role to not act like a jerk as the person listening to whatever is being said. That's simply common sense, you say something rude in game expect one or more people to not like the content of what you said or to like playing with you in game.

Of course I understand that you can't simply say whatever you want without facing consequences but that's precisely my point. I think that the consequence that if you're a total jerk and unlikeable person in-game you're less likely to move forward with anyone but people who are like that is quite enough outside of extreme circumstances, such as when a player is excessively and constantly engaging in predatory behavior toward another player over an extended period of time. It's a video game, people get mad all the time and say things that aren't so nice. Just because you happen to be one of those types who say/do things that are not cool but also not bannable because you didn't use profanity doesn't make you a good person, it doesn't mean you're not a jerk or not very rude it just means you won't get banned.

The game simply does not need tools in place to allow players to actively police the game in this manner and historically it has only resulted in communities turning into extremely toxic environments where players constantly threaten to report people and do it. In LOL for example, players are frequently banned for things that might technically be a violation of the TOS, but in reality the players reporting them are doing far worse things but simply not doing something like violating chat policy.

So in my view these type of systems are completely unecessary, and punishments such as short and long term bans or this new silencing policy I think should only apply to people who are frequent and flagrant offenders who target specific people, not so much just any person who says anything in game at all even when it's not directed at you or any player that you happen to find offensive and report them for xyz words that their report system searches for.

I also think you're failing to understand a very simple concept, being offended about something does not make you right. And I don't think it's at all a weak argument that you can just choose to walk away, but rather it's only a weak argument if you are a very emotional and reactionary person.

You also fail to recognize that systems like this do nothing to actually discourage players from being total and complete jerks in ways that actually ruin the game experience for other players but instead unfairly punishes players who might otherwise be totally cool people who have no problem helping others, and put 100% into fulfilling their role in group related activities but got pissed off because you did something that ruined not only their experience but maybe even their friends as well.

What you are condoning is forcing those players to be super nice in chat to people who very well might be doing all sorts of things to completely ruin your game experience on purpose. With these kind of systems in place, essentially players can be bullied and harassed in ways that don't necessarily fall under the options available to report people for, or that can't realistically be policed in an online multiplayer game environment. So essentially as was always the case, truly all types of offending players will never face the same consequences and that is precisely the issue. These features just open the door for and encourage new and creative toxic behaviors.

It really hasn't occurred to you that players who are really out to ruin your day are just going to continue doing it without doing something like violating chat? Really?

As for taking my own advice, I don't extend that towards people that throw the first insult.

Ya okay point taken, but I never insulted you. And again you're missing a very simple concept here: being offended does not make you right. People get offended by all sorts of things, as evident here you've come off as a little bit smug and prideful to other people, but since you did it without using certain words that's considered perfectly okay and that IS the problem.

It goes both ways man, sure people have to make an effort to be pleasant toward other people and aware of others. Just because you don't use certain words does not mean you are fulfilling those other things and not offending people or not being a quote unquote jerk.

We are responsible for our own actions and reactions, but that is why Blizzard has actually put their foot down on this issue. Too many players have been too toxic in game too long with too many other people. Those types of players have not taken adequate responsibility to not treat other players rudely so Blizzard has brought about this penalty.

I strongly disagree, if anything for too long Blizzard has not taken necessary steps to deal with a very small population of people who act in this way, but it is not at all as widespread a problem as you've made it out to be, in terms of people who are vulgar and just mean spirited and say homophobic or racist things and so on.

On the other hand I have noticed a substantial increase in players (from the point they implemented LFG on) who really go out of their way to ruin other people's game experience but are totally oblivious to how positively awful their actions actually are or just don't care and tend to act like you're not even a real person. But since they're not violating a chat policy they simply don't get banned or receive any type of infraction.

Reality is that THOSE kind of people are anti-social, not people who just happen to say things that might offend you.

Seriously, the last time I checked doing things to intentionally cause the death of other players or to otherwise ruin their game experience, ninja looting, scamming and so on are very serious breaches of the terms of service and fall under the category of same faction griefing. However, in the entire history of this game Blizzard has done positively next to nothing at all to deal with players like this and to some extent that's understandable because policing that kind of behavior is a huge undertaking and requires a lot of investigation.

That's fine though, because those are serious offenses that should require a lot of evidence put forward in order to issue a punishment. That's why the game should have tools to do such. That's a necessary feature, unlike putting a system in the game to punish players who occasionally drop an F-bomb or something else relatively minor which really just encourages players to find creative ways to ruin your game experience so they can report you.

The game needs new players, not just trying to return the old. If Blizzard thinks non moderated speech in game hurts the image & potential new audience of their product then I applaud them for taking the initiative for putting their foot down, even though this should have been the case from day one.

The game does need new players, sure. If you think heavily moderated chat is going to bring them in when the game is designed in such a way that it encourages people to be lazy and not put in a fair amount of effort to complete content and earn rewards and said moderated chat has the unfortunate flaw of also targeting people who just might be totally justifiably pissed off for completely understandable totally good reasons, you've got another thing coming.

This game does have a lot of jerks, but in my experience it's very rarely in the form of people using offensive language, but instead more often in the form of lazy healer #679821 in a dungeon, raid finder or whatever whose eating food or watching tv and barely paying attention to the game who get's super offended and acts all high and mighty when you get frustrated and call them out for actually ruining everyone's game experience, or players in your battlegrounds who completely and utterly ignore chat and act like total jerks the whole game and make you lose and then report you because you the player putting 100% into it got frustrated after several bgs where everyone just acted like complete idiots.

Good for you for not using language that is generally considered offensive in civilized society, that does not make you a good person.

Please consider this before you reply very strongly; if putting 100% effort into helping your group finish activities in a timely and efficient manner is not first and foremost among things you include in your definition of what a good player is, or that is not part of what your ideal pleasant game community involves, your definition of those things is extremely inaccurate, as well as your definition of a player who is "rude" or a "jerk".

[Shaede]

You see what you do right? You bellitle negative reaction into being "nerd" rage. This is the PC way of dealing with the problems bad players cause daily to others. You think you have a right to be bad which is not the case. Others have rights too and when your actions irritate them they respond accordingly. So your ACTIONS go unpunished as the acts of a "new player" (bullshit argument there is hardly any new players around wow and when they are we always help them this is not about new players and you know it) but if you are deliberately afking and someone calls you on it you have a "right" to report them.

Btw it doesn't take much brain to realize how much this system you advocate for can be abused. Im shocked that you cant see past your nose really.

Not really... You just choose not to use the solution, and that's to play with people you feel are on your skill level. Going into a random group, using the que system, not even in ranked play... and then throwing a fit because you don't think others are good enough to be playing with you is exactly what I called it: Nerd Rage.

Go play ranked matches... join a RBG group. Don't try to justify your inability to control the way you conduct yourself in chat by saying someone else isn't good enough at the game and doesn't meet your standards. So either offer them some tips or advice, or don't. But don't expect anyone to feel sorry for you if you start yelling at people and calling them names and they decide to report you.

[Shakou]

Well, yes I can totally see your point of view and I understand that the way the game currently is, players are often forced to play with random players, many of whom are extremely lazy and put in very little effort. You can't just choose at any waking moment to play with people you feel are on your skill level. So if you want to play you have to go into random groups using the queue system, not even in ranked play... and then after you go above and beyond to help your team out and exhibit the upmost patience dealing with bad players as you put in your best effort before you ultimately get frustrated and throw a fit, you realize it's not that players are incapable of playing but are actually just cynical trolls who half-ass it on purpose in a perpetual circle of frustration meant to do nothing but ruin the game experience of others, which is something they find enjoyable to do.

But what you could do instead is just sit in Ashran or anywhere in game really and waste away hours of your life trying to get enough skilled and properly geared players for ranked arena matches or rbgs. But the fact of the matter is that you can't justify your inability to control the way you conduct yourself in chat by saying someone else isn't good enough at the game and doesn't meet your standards. So either offer them some tips or advice, even though players will often act in an irrational and violent manner when you do, or don't. But don't expect anyone to feel sorry for you if you start yelling at people and calling them names when they repeatedly step all over you, act like complete dunces and are complete and total jerks who go out of their way to frustrate you and then decide to report you after they have successfully baited you because we're all jerks and don't care.

Hell, I'll probably be just as frustrated as you if I ended up in the same groups, and I'd probably go along with you and engage in the same tactics up to the end and then I'd just report you because I can. Also I am completely aware that you're frustrated for good reasons and probably wouldn't report me for doing essentially the same things.

Extended and modified for matters of accuracy pertaining to the actual state of the game.

[Shaede]

Extended and modified for matters of accuracy pertaining to the actual state of the game.

You can try to twist my words all you want, but finding a group of like-minded individuals is literally as easy as que'ing. I mean, you know there is a section in the group finder that allows you to form such groups right? If you seriously lack the motivation to find a group to play with on a ranked scale or just finding a pre-made group to join, then how can you possibly get mad at anyone but yourself when you enter a random que expecting a top tier team?

I mean obviously you guys are worried about this system, but I'm not. I enter random groups with little to no expectations and just try to have fun since you know, that's why I play the game. You think a handful of people not being that good at their class or the objective is going to make me lose my shit? Nah man. Especially not enough for me to start raging like a little kid. If I am looking for a competitive atmosphere then I'd be rolling in an RBG or running arenas, not queing up for random BGs.

[Gonder]

RuneScape has had its mute system for as long as I can remember, and I have never had any gripes with that. Although the silence system will work differently, it is a similar concept to the mute system in RuneScape. Personally, I welcome this change; better than just being banned on the spot, as you still get to play the game during your punishment.

[Shakou]

You can try to twist my words all you want, but finding a group of like-minded individuals is literally as easy as que'ing.

No it is not at all, and it is a complete waste of my time and effort to post anything beyond that in response to you because what you have posted just simply does not accurately represent the state of the game at all in any way shape or form.

[Shaede]

No it is not at all, and it is a complete waste of my time and effort to post anything beyond that in response because it just simply does not accurately represent the state of the game at all in any way shape or form.

Well, I'm sorry you're finding it difficult to form or find groups. I'm not at all. Regardless, doesn't give you any more of a right to break TOS because you can't control your anger in a random bg. On the bright side, even if you get silenced you can still play, so at least there's that.

[l33t]

I know this because I got a 48 hour ban simply for telling a player to "fuck off", context of the situation did not matter at all, I myself was just doing my daily heroic and not caring at all about the fact that I was doing 99% of the work because I pretty much can just solo heroics on my tank in little time anyways. That is up until a point where I made a huge pull and the healer et all decided not to follow me because I didn't want to help them do some achievement and instead let me die said some smart ass shit in the chat that did not fall under criteria that would result in an infraction on their own account and then kicked me from the group.

So, just like I thought, you're the very person who will be muted for sure, and you know it, that's why all the whining.

Too bad, so sad! We don't need people who fail to behave. You're a very brave keyboard warrior when you're behind your pc, sure. I bet in real life you're not telling random people to fuck off, because that quickly escalates to face injuries.

Also: if you died without a healer, that means you could NOT solo the instance. Just to clarify, you know. Oh, and your story is such an obvious blatant lies. If only people could ban other people with solo-reporting... but no, they can't. Although I am quite sure, seeing now how you treat random people, that you usually misbehave in general chats, and by doing that, you get tons of reports, that's why you took your disciplinary action. I am sure that a solo report does not do anything, because otherways I would have half of my fucking server banned years ago.

[taliey]

Thank god for moderation in trade. Trade has been garbage for as long as WoW has existed.

[Pann]

I make my own RBG groups for years now and people beg to join. So, X guy says "pls pls pls pls pls take me im good im oh so good look HOTA x2 seasons etc" (apparently Outland HOTA so like 1000 exp and rich dad but anyway), so I put him in ST and yes I give him tips and advice: "GUARD ST AND CALL INC".

Now thats a ranked RBG at 2.3K and so I think "guard ST and call inc" is simple enough right? So minutes later ST is lost because the guy "went to get coffee".

In my eyes this guy deserves whatever he gets after that.

Now with that in mind, you can continue saying its all "nerd rage" because hey thats what suits your argument: Pretending people go randomly crazy at the innocents. In reality the game is full of bad people who abuse mechanics and the time of others and go away unpunished.

NOONE has ever been harrassed/swore at etc for a genuine mistake. We all make mistakes. But there is a huge difference between making a mistake and deliberately f*cking a group because you felt like it. And since its not vanilla when these kind of players were banned from every guild and noone played with them, now we have rage. You act and there is a reaction. Same as when you cross a stop sign. Hey you have a driving licence sure and you generally drive good but you almost killed us. What you think will happen I ll get out of the car and hug you? Are you for real bro?

There is still no need to harass or swear at the player. Why couldn't you just say "Going to get a coffee during a match is not acceptable. I will not be inviting you to any further RBGs" and then remove him from the group?

[Shakou]

So, just like I thought, you're the very person who will be muted for sure, and you know it, that's why all the whining.

Too bad, so sad! We don't need people who fail to behave. You're a very brave keyboard warrior when you're behind your pc, sure. I bet in real life you're not telling random people to fuck off, because that quickly escalates to face injuries.

Also: if you died without a healer, that means you could NOT solo the instance. Just to clarify, you know. Oh, and your story is such an obvious blatant lies. If only people could ban other people with solo-reporting... but no, they can't. Although I am quite sure, seeing now how you treat random people, that you usually misbehave in general chats, and by doing that, you get tons of reports, that's why you took your disciplinary action. I am sure that a solo report does not do anything, because otherways I would have half of my fucking server banned years ago.

Bullying and inflammatory statements masked behind "nice words"? Check.
Making assumptions about some person you've barely interacted with at all and making judgments about them based on pure guess work? Check.

You are very plainly the exact sort of person who should not have the kind of power that systems like this give to ordinary players. Also you obviously have emotional issues and I would seek counseling if I were you and mean absolutely no offense but whoa buddy. You're being super hostile for no rational reason whatsoever. Cute how you called me a Keyboard Warrior though. I don't think you know what that term actually means. Are you just not that self aware? You sir are the epitome of a Keyboard Warrior. It means a person who makes aggressive or abusive posts on the internet, not a person who like any normal human being whose not an unthinking unfeeling robot get's pissed off after someone does something really screwed up to them and tells them to fuck off.

I'm not even being hostile to anyone here at all, including people that are pretty blatantly harassing me. Bruh like really, calm down.

EDIT: Also that's super adorable that you think I'm bsing about being able to solo content any tank in less than my mainly bis gear should be able to, because I pulled an especially large group not thinking the other people in my group would stay behind and watch me die before kicking me out because I wouldn't let them bully me into doing achievements for them on top of everything else.

Ya man my story is just such an unlikely scenario, and you're obviously a total joy to be around. Just a complete bucket of sunshine, for sure.

Did it even cross your mind that I don't need your validation and I'm not seeking it? Because I haven't even interacted with you until now as far I remember. Man. Such arrogance. And you're the kind of people who think you can "fix" World of Warcraft by reporting every player you don't like into oblivion? Amazing.

[Kerbs]

I hardly ever post as you can see from my post count but thought I would just add my thoughts.

I think the system will work well if it works "as advertised" by Blizzard. There is a lot of toxic behaviour that seeks nothing to do but ruin other peoples playing experiences. I am not talking about the random disagreement that occurs but people going out to harass and troll others to get off on it.

In other situations when people get heated when discussing subjects and the insults are flung then sometimes a timeout can be warranted. The line that is drawn on such behaviour and what is acceptable to people will vary from person to person. In general though society has a line that you do not cross, anonymity seems to make that line drop away a lot as fear of consequence is far less.

[LovesToSpooge]

Seriously people need to get a thicker skin and learn to use /ignore, there is no need for a shitty silence system