So..How exactly did AU Gul'dan summon Archimonde?

[Eon Drache]

Where does this stupid lore come into it, Gul'dan was no different to the rest of the Horde in the MU and would have drank the blood along with everyone else. Which stupid book changed that story? If anything he was the only one that even knew what it meant and all he ever wanted was more power, thats his entire MO. No way he didn't drink it in the MU.

Pretty sure Gul'dan never drank the blood in the main universe as he was a willing servant to the Legion. I've never actually seen anything that states Gul'dan did drink the blood. It also would have made no sense for Gul'dan to ever drink the blood because he knew it meant surrendering his mind over. Something he never seemed to do. Can you point us to where it was stated he drank it?

[The Stormbringer]

Remember when we first came into Tanaan and that warlock said they were "preparing" for something?...That's the Black gate we are talking about. It took months before they were able to summon Black gate and Archimonde.

Plus this is Alternative reality where Gul'dan was Warlock for much longer then in our reality (at least that's how I understand it)

This right here. Not only that, but if I recall HFC correctly, he talks about how the summoning is being prepared and they need Mannoroth to buy them a little more time during that fight.

[Anastacy]

Pretty sure Gul'dan never drank the blood in both as he was a willing servant to the Legion. I've never actually seen anything that states Gul'dan did drink the blood. It also would have made no sense for Gul'dan to ever drink the blood because he knew it meant surrendering his mind over. Something he never seemed to do. Can you point us to where it was stated he drank it?

Gul'dan is green. Doesn't that mean he drank it?

[TheDestinatus]

Pretty sure Gul'dan never drank the blood in both as he was a willing servant to the Legion. I've never actually seen anything that states Gul'dan did drink the blood. It also would have made no sense for Gul'dan to ever drink the blood because he knew it meant surrendering his mind over. Something he never seemed to do. Can you point us to where it was stated he drank it?

Drinking blood doesn't reduce your IQ to 0? Where are people getting this stuff from. If that was the case none of the Orcs could have operated on anything other than eat, beat, sleep repeat. The other casters drank the blood, no reason to ever believe that Gul'dan was any different. I mean your argument would basically infer that this currect Gul'dan has surrendered his mind when hes doing exactly the same thing his MU counterpart was doing.

Gul'dans WC2 portrait has red eyes, what else needs to be said?

- - - Updated - - -

Gul'dan is green. Doesn't that mean he drank it?

You would think so, but they retconned the skin change to be caused by something else. I mean if you go by WC3 it turns you red, TBC it turns you pink, WoD it infects you with Sha corruption. Zero continuity.

[WintersLegion]

Drinking blood doesn't reduce your IQ to 0? Where are people getting this stuff from. If that was the case none of the Orcs could have operated on anything other than eat, beat, sleep repeat. The other casters drank the blood, no reason to ever believe that Gul'dan was any different. I mean your argument would basically infer that this currect Gul'dan has surrendered his mind when hes doing exactly the same thing his MU counterpart was doing.

Gul'dans WC2 portrait has red eyes, what else needs to be said?

- - - Updated - - -



You would think so, but they retconned the skin change to be caused by something else. I mean if you go by WC3 it turns you red, TBC it turns you pink, WoD it infects you with Sha corruption. Zero continuity.

No it wasn't retconned. Drink it once or be exposed to enough fel energy and they turn green. They turn red if they drink more of it and from that point the big mutations start happening.

[Eon Drache]

Gul'dan is green. Doesn't that mean he drank it?

No. You can be green by being around Fel Magic. Thrall's Father Durotan was green despite even in the original work and story never drank the blood.

Drinking blood doesn't reduce your IQ to 0? Where are people getting this stuff from. If that was the case none of the Orcs could have operated on anything other than eat, beat, sleep repeat. The other casters drank the blood, no reason to ever believe that Gul'dan was any different. I mean your argument would basically infer that this currect Gul'dan has surrendered his mind when hes doing exactly the same thing his MU counterpart was doing.

Gul'dans WC2 portrait has red eyes, what else needs to be said?

- - - Updated - - -



You would think so, but they retconned the skin change to be caused by something else. I mean if you go by WC3 it turns you red, TBC it turns you pink, WoD it infects you with Sha corruption. Zero continuity.

I must have missed where I said it made you stupid. Surrendering control of your mind doesn't mean make you stupid. It means being a servent of the Legion. Gul'dan already was.

Also, the red eye shit doesn't mean anything. Thrall's eyes turned red when he killed Blackmoore in Lord of the Clans. For Gul'dan it just means he's on drugs. (Fel) Lord of Clans released in 2001. Meaning Green skin orcs that didn't drink the blood were a thing BEFORE WoW was a thing. Same with having red eyes. Shocker.

[TheDestinatus]

No it wasn't retconned. Drink it once or be exposed to enough fel energy and they turn green. They turn red if they drink more of it and from that point the big mutations start happening.

Over the next few years, the entire race was corrupted by fel energy and began turning green

All orcs with warlocks in their clan found their skin slowly turning green before they were ever offered the blood of the demon Mannoroth

The first orcs to drink the blood of a pit lord rapidly completed their transition to green skin.

Orcs that drink Mannoroth's blood obtained gray marks in their green skin.

Fel magic makes you green, the blood only sped up the process. Drinking the blood didn't cause the green skin. It should have been the cause, fuck that, in reality the Orcs should have always just been green but we needed to diversify by making the Orcs a different colour. Green not caused by blood, just sped up the process and added grey or some crap like that.

- - - Updated - - -

No. You can be green by being around Fel Magic. Thrall's Father Durotan was green despite even in the original work and story never drank the blood.



I must have missed where I said it made you stupid. Surrendering control of your mind doesn't mean make you stupid. It means being a servent of the Legion. Gul'dan already was.

Also, the red eye shit doesn't mean anything. Thrall's eyes turned red when he killed Blackmoore in Lord of the Clans. For Gul'dan it just means he's on drugs. (Fel) Lord of Clans released in 2001. Meaning Green skin orcs that didn't drink the blood were a thing BEFORE WoW was a thing. Same with having red eyes. Shocker.

Lol, okay mate you're right. Gul'dan is obviously completely different this time around. Hes definately not green with red eyes who goes to the Tomb of Sargeras. I'm 100% with you, no way Gul'dan would have drank the blood the first time around, hes not interested in being all powerful at all, he would have been content to let all the other warlocks drink the blood because wouldn't have seen that as a threat or anything. Lets just make all the other warlocks super powered and not participate because feels.

Roger, over and out.

[Prokne]

The only reason MU Guldan would not have drank the blood of Mannoroth is because he didn't need it. The blood is basically fel steroids that makes whoever drinks it stronger, aggressive and power hungry. I don't think it ever took over the mind of the drinker like mind control, it just made them more violent and chaotic which is what the Legion is all about.

[TheDestinatus]

The only reason MU Guldan would not have drank the blood of Mannoroth is because he didn't need it. The blood is basically fel steroids that makes whoever drinks it stronger, aggressive and power hungry. I don't think it ever took over the mind of the drinker like mind control, it just made them more violent and chaotic which is what the Legion is all about.

Why exactly would he get his own warlocks to drink the blood and not do it himself. That would be like super powering everyone around him and refusing to partake. As if anyone would trust him if he didn't do the exact same thing. "Hey guys, you should all drink this... Oh no I don't want any, I just had a big drink before you got here..."

As if power hungry people take need into consideration. If you have a million dollars do you just call it a day and stop trying to make money, its the worst possible way of explaining a power hungry sociopath. Sup, oh yeah I don't want any of that demons blood power I've got plenty right here!

[Eon Drache]

Fel magic makes you green, the blood only sped up the process. Drinking the blood didn't cause the green skin. It should have been the cause, fuck that, in reality the Orcs should have always just been green but we needed to diversify by making the Orcs a different colour. Green not caused by blood, just sped up the process and added grey or some crap like that.

- - - Updated - - -



Lol, okay mate you're right. Gul'dan is obviously completely different this time around. Hes definately not green with red eyes who goes to the Tomb of Sargeras. I'm 100% with you, no way Gul'dan would have drank the blood the first time around, hes not interested in being all powerful at all, he would have been content to let all the other warlocks drink the blood because wouldn't have seen that as a threat or anything. Lets just make all the other warlocks super powered and not participate because feels.

Roger, over and out.

Gul'dan in the original timeline made a deal with Kil'jaeden. In our timeline Grommash was the first orc to drink the demon's blood. In the alternative timeline Gul'dan and the Shadow Council were first. One of the distinctions in Gul'dans character this time around was he actually drank the blood.

[Raugnaut]

Well I'm sure everybody asked themselves the same question at one point or another after doing HFC. I mean, Archimonde, Kil'jaeden and Mannoroth are like the big three's of the Legion and in Azeroth history it took tremendous amounts of power and conduits to summon them, so how did AU Gul'dan, a relatively weak Warlock (Remember that AU Gul'dan has only a few years of Warlockship and he's spent most his years being detained and drained of his power for the Dark Portal), just summoned Archimonde like that? Was he Affliction specced and he just cast Soulburn? If he could summon Archimonde just like that, why didn't he just do it at the start and send him out the gate of HFC like Doomroller?

I mean if he could just Soulburn-summon a General of the Legion like that, why stop there? Just add in some more Warlocks and summon fucking Sargeras. You might aswell, what's the difference? It'd be as inexplicable as the current iteration, so fuck it.

A note - A good number of years passed between Garrosh being sent to Draenor (At the time, Gul'Dan was already a warlock establishing his power), and the re-invasion of the Dark Portal (Rather then trying to conquer the local draenei populace, Garrosh/Grommash set about building up a huge power base, with invading Azeroth being at the top of it all).

Mannoroth, while among the most powerful of Pit Lords, is not powerful to the point that you need a major ritual to summon him.

As for how he summoned Archimonde? Halfway through the Mannoroth fight, Gul'Dan says something like "Mannoroth, you are gonna lose. Stall for time as much as you can, Ima go summon Archimonde". So he used a powerful Portal (The Dark Portal, most powerful portal in history), and a good deal of time to summon Archimonde.

[Ethenil]

Kel'Thuzad used the Book of Medivh to summon Archimonde to Dalaran.

Gul'dan used the Cipher of Damnation.

Really it wasn't all that hard to do it in Dalaran either you know..

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Gul'dan has the power to raise mountains, and submerge a whole group of isles under the sea. He's that powerful, pretty simple...

[Solonar]

The AU Gul'dan is more powerful because his origins are different now. In the original timeline he was Ner'zhul's student in shamanism and eventually rose beyond him as a warlock. In AU timeline there seems to be no master-apprentice relationship with Gul'dan and Ner'zhul and Gul'dan looks significantly older than Ner'zhul at that (although that might just be the fel magics' result).

Like in our timeline, the Dark Portal's destruction was not sufficient. The 'tear' in reality is still very much there, the residual energies as you will. Gul'dan utilized this to open the Black Gate easier than it probably would've been otherwise. In addition his warlocks were occupied at the remnants of the Dark Portal when we arrive in Tanaan the second time (after building the Transport vessel) casting their fel magics. You've also got to consider that Mannoroth was told to hold us off while Gul'dan prepares the Black Gate's opening at some point near the end of the fight.
Gul'dan yells: Hold them here, Mannoroth. My work is almost done. Our master comes...

In addition, because I left my post half-written and had to do something, the post above my own is also true. In WC Gul'dan rose the Tomb of Sargeras from the depths of the ocean, he's a powerful mortal spellcaster and the most powerful mortal warlock around. Kel'thuzad was powerful in his own right as a member of the Council of Six and then Archlich of the Scourge but I dare to say that the power granted unto Gul'dan by Kil'jaeden topples the power given by Ner'zhul and Arthas. Kel'thuzad did not possess the knowledge of demon summoning as he was a mage first and then a necromancer, never a warlock. He was even surprised by the Last Guardian's knowledge of demons as the book detailed.

Archimonde was also easily summoned after the Highborne received aid from Mannoroth (and Hakkar? Not sure on that one) by tearing the portal in the Well of Eternity open further. If you can consider that Mannoroth himself had a bit of a concern regarding Azshara's power and that Gul'dan essentially made that same Pit Lord his little bitch I think it's easy to say that Gul'dan has quite a resumé.

[TyrannicalPuppy]

Would of made more sense if he used the Cipher or whatever as a conduit to create the Black Gate and summon Archi.

The Cipher of Damnation.

Which, if I recall correctly, he used to enslave an elemental and then we destroyed it all during the Tanaan Garrison Campaign.

[Kokolums]

My first thought was that perhaps Draenor is in a location that is much closer to Archimonde's location in the universe than Azeroth is, so it took a lot less power and knowledge to summon him to Draenor.

[minteK917]

How come Illidan can speak directly to KJ multiple time in WC3, does he have a nether cellphone??? PLOT HOLE.

- - - Updated - - -

My first thought was that perhaps Draenor is in a location that is much closer to Archimonde's location in the universe than Azeroth is, so it took a lot less power and knowledge to summon him to Draenor.

took less to summon him on Azeroth, a book and literally 30 minutes lol. Do you guys even play these game?

Speaking of which i think im gona play WC3 right now til legion comes out.

[The Flavour Cat]

i think you all need to remember that the plan up til the final patch of WoD was that the endboss was going to be grom

They saud he was going to be involved in the final raid, not the final boss. When they said he was going to be the boss at Blizzcon, they were joking.

[potis]

I am pretty sure people confuse time.

Wasnt all of WoD happened in like a few years and not days? How is not possible to summon someone after that long? >_>

I am pretty sure people confuse that with how long till the raid comes out.

[Soeroah]

Archimonde was summoned to Draenor in the area where the Dark Portal had been temporarily opened. I wouldn't be surprised if that kind of energy made it easier to summon powerful portals around that area, weakening reality, in a sense. Plus there were a lot of souls in the area Gul'dan would have been happy to use as fuel.