1. #2201
    And the cycle of a new expansion continue.

    - guys, its just an alpha, we will get something soon.
    - guys, its just an closed beta, we will get our patch soon.
    - guys, its just an open beta, healing balance soon™
    - guys the expansion is here, we are going to get something in the first patch.
    - guys the expansion is over, we will get something in the new expansion.

  2. #2202
    Dreadlord Ursiel's Avatar
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    If you don't like the changes to paladin now, when it's just over a month before the expansion launches, you should just switch to another class or get over it. I highly doubt much, if anything, is going to change between now and then.
    Hey

  3. #2203
    I am Murloc! Tomana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminelle View Post
    Because i didint like what i saw in legion for paladin, i tried on ptr also and it felt cluncky. The artifact traits are boring , spells have like almost no synergy together, atleast not enough. I tried every single healer and ive watched video stream, from all of them and i like the synergy between the shaman spell and Cloburst totem+ Wellspring is alot of fun hehe. Been playing paladin for 8 years i guess i was in need for a change
    You're sort of contradicting yourself. One post, the paladins are great (or at least fine healers), the other they're clunky and "spells have like almost no synergy together, atleast not enough".
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  4. #2204
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    We are perfectly fine in comparison with other healers, and I do not need to be world top 100 to see that.

  5. #2205
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    You're sort of contradicting yourself. One post, the paladins are great (or at least fine healers), the other they're clunky and "spells have like almost no synergy together, atleast not enough".
    i said they were good number wise! I dont see how im contradicting myself hehe, they are doing great. The fact that i dont like the new gameplay and how it feel is very personnal. It have nothing to do on how they perform
    Ohhh Deer,Resto shaman in legion

  6. #2206
    Mechagnome CloudedInSanity's Avatar
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    I've been working on a spreadsheet to calculate the impact of secondary stats on Holy Paladin abilities. Still some things I want to add to it, however at the moment it's ready for testing. To be able to change the values in blue cells, you will have to make a copy of it as you are not able to change the original.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...njA/edit#gid=0
    Feel the hatred of 1̶0̶,̶0̶0̶0̶ 10010 years.

  7. #2207
    Mechagnome EzG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berthier View Post
    guys relax if you dont play top 100 it doesnt matter
    Why wouldn't you want to be the best of the best. If you do something, anything, why not be great at it?

  8. #2208
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    Quote Originally Posted by EzG View Post
    Why wouldn't you want to be the best of the best. If you do something, anything, why not be great at it?
    Holy shit, that's exactly the point, isnt it? Why would you actually think its the minor class differences holding you back? Why would you think that the only way for you to get better is to play the best class, whatever it is?

    or let me guess, you have not actually thought about what you are implying?

  9. #2209
    Mechagnome EzG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blutelf View Post
    Holy shit, that's exactly the point, isnt it? Why would you actually think its the minor class differences holding you back? Why would you think that the only way for you to get better is to play the best class, whatever it is?

    or let me guess, you have not actually thought about what you are implying?
    Ok, that just might be the most sarcastic thing I've read all day, congratulations. The fellow I quoted implied that the small differences in secondary stats or any of the theorycrafting posts above or previously shouldn't be concerned if you are not top 100. All I "implied," which was quite literal was, "why not be good at what you do," pretty forwardly and directly without suggesting much of anything unless your imagination said there are zebras when you heard hooves. There were no subliminal implications to switch classes or imply anything else. Who ever even said that minor class differences are holding someone back, by any astronomical amount anyways, but enough to put one person ahead of another, but that's literally all the time, not just in a legion theorycrafting sense, although we are still talking about holy pallies right? I never even hinted at other classes in that post. If 10% more of X stat puts you a small margin ahead of the next healer, why not go for it. All my post was about was "why not." You do not have to be top 100 to try to min max and be better than the next person. No need for the aggressive stance friend, but please back yourself up before claiming I didn't think about what I was "implying," although I probably should have specified I was talking about holy paladins getting/being better, not other healers specifically, on a holy pally thread, didn't think it was needed. I have no issue explaining a couple simple sentences if they weren't understood.

  10. #2210
    I am Murloc! Tomana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blutelf View Post
    Holy shit, that's exactly the point, isnt it? Why would you actually think its the minor class differences holding you back? Why would you think that the only way for you to get better is to play the best class, whatever it is?
    For one, because RLs from all kinds of raiding guilds closely monitor what kind of healers the top guilds bring. And their reaction will be "oh, <insert top guild name here> is not bringing paladins, so they must be crap, so I won't either".
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  11. #2211
    It doesnt matter if you are top 10 or top 1000, if some specs are inferior in every way they will not be desired by anyone. If you can do more by bringing another class, anyone who even gives a fuck about progress will make the choice to switch out someone.
    And often people will chose what to play based off of top guilds, hence why you see someone like Slootbags chat filled with "whats the best tank in Legion?" all day. It doesnt matter if you are a scrub or not, noody wants to play something that is inferior.

    So from a top guilds perspective, if you compare a holy paladin to a druid right now, there is zero reason to bring a holy paladin unless there is some way to remove a mechanic with bubble/HoP/freedom.

  12. #2212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leefa View Post
    It doesnt matter if you are top 10 or top 1000, if some specs are inferior in every way they will not be desired by anyone. If you can do more by bringing another class, anyone who even gives a fuck about progress will make the choice to switch out someone.
    And often people will chose what to play based off of top guilds, hence why you see someone like Slootbags chat filled with "whats the best tank in Legion?" all day. It doesnt matter if you are a scrub or not, noody wants to play something that is inferior.

    So from a top guilds perspective, if you compare a holy paladin to a druid right now, there is zero reason to bring a holy paladin unless there is some way to remove a mechanic with bubble/HoP/freedom.
    Except that is does factually matter. Top 10 and top 1000 are so different from each other in a variety of ways, especially when discussing in a context of healing requirements and specifically raid cooldowns. What the top 10 guilds need great raid cooldowns for, the top 1000 will barely notice. The gear is different, the strategies are wildly different, everything about them is different. You can't even begin to logically argue that the fights are the same at the top level and at lower levels. They're not.

    Say Tranquility is better than Aura Mastery. Where a guild in the top 10 needs a cooldown like Tranquility, a guild like mine will do more than fine with Aura Mastery due to the additional gear we have, let alone a top 1000 guild. They'll be lucky if they need a personal throughput cooldown from a healer. At that level it's not the classes holding them back, it's a combination of schedule, coordination, organization and the level of play in the guild.

    Another thing to keep in mind is time investment. Tuning is never really done. We've seen stuff like frost mages getting buffs and nerfs early on in this expansion; you never know when they will turn a knob. A top 10 guild can reliably account for this, since they play a lot more than your average top 1000 guild. Say my guild were to go all out with the glorious holy priests. We'd bring three. No holy paladins, no mistweavers. Then they turn a knob and holy paladins become the gods of HPS. For a guild like Serenity that's fine, they'll whip out their geared holy paladin alts and continue as normal. For a guild like mine, we'd be caught with out pants down, stuck with three holy priests and a bunch of crappy alts.

    It's not always so simple as to which class is better than another. There's much more to it and you need to take a look at your own guild and determine what fits you specifically, especially when we're discussing of a lack of cooldowns compared to the other healers. Will it really matter for your guild? Is it worth whatever risks come with it?
    Last edited by mmoc68a4e4b5e2; 2016-07-15 at 04:18 PM.

  13. #2213
    Mechagnome CloudedInSanity's Avatar
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    Are there any non-depressing Paladins left in this world?
    Feel the hatred of 1̶0̶,̶0̶0̶0̶ 10010 years.

  14. #2214
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    Yes, me ^_^

  15. #2215
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwa0RO5ua_A

    paladins ranked 2nd best healer in legion

    elegiggle paladins complaining elegiggle

    >mfw nothing changes

  16. #2216
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwa0RO5ua_A

    paladins ranked 2nd best healer in legion

    elegiggle paladins complaining elegiggle

    >mfw nothing changes
    >"All healers are really close"
    >"Best Legion Healer"

    A fucking joke, but it's going to be taken to heart because "TOP TIER RAIDER SAID SO"

  17. #2217
    Mechagnome EzG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garg View Post
    >"All healers are really close"
    >"Best Legion Healer"

    A fucking joke, but it's going to be taken to heart because "TOP TIER RAIDER SAID SO"
    Well they are close though. Did some of that normal nighthold the other day and was even with a priest and a shaman. I have yet to heal with a resto druid for the entirety of the testing phases so I can't speak for them, but I keep hearing they are the best and if you have one then toss your pally to the curb.

  18. #2218
    Quote Originally Posted by EzG View Post
    Well they are close though. Did some of that normal nighthold the other day and was even with a priest and a shaman. I have yet to heal with a resto druid for the entirety of the testing phases so I can't speak for them, but I keep hearing they are the best and if you have one then toss your pally to the curb.
    I'm not saying that healers aren't close. They are incredibly close.

    My issue with the video is that he goes on to rank the healers in a "Mythic World First Race" environment, which trickles down to Normal groups. He should have just done the pros and cons of each, and the video would be okay (barring the obvious misinformation).

  19. #2219
    why would method talk openly about best heal classes while aladya makes it a secret even he is not in method but a top end guild?
    13/13

    Monk

  20. #2220
    Quote Originally Posted by siccora View Post
    why would method talk openly about best heal classes while aladya makes it a secret even he is not in method but a top end guild?
    when has aladya ever admitted paladins were op/strong?

    that's why xd

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