Legion - Subtlety discussion

[Notter]

Of course "ruins" is an exaggeration, Hobbes.
but it DOES make the flow feel bad. and for some people, this "ruins" the experience and the flow of the rotation.

anyway, kalaratic, if they make it refund energy, then that would mean they need to nerf something else, cause that would mean we could get SoD + 3 SS (first one crit).

I think it's better to make SoD just more straightforward, usable outside stealth and doesn't guarantee crit.
this way, it will replace a backstab, not a SS, and you'll be free to only use damage abilities in stealth, and not buffs.

[Deleted]

Call it what you want, Inquisition 2.0, Savage Roar 2.0, SnD in disguise all apply since when we get down to brass tacks it is what it is, a maintenance buff that in their quest to push "class fantasy" they have tied it to stealth only use to make it more "interesting" and only succeeded in making the spec feel clunky.

Some people like it, fair enough, i don't and agree the spec feels a lot better if you do not include SoD in the active rotation which speaks volumes against it in its current iteration from my view point.

At this point i would much rather see it as a talent and give ppl an active choice to not play it if they don't want to, since the overwhelming opinion of a lot of old school sub rogues is that they would rather play a different spec than put up with the unpolisheble turd that is SoD.

[shaunika123]

I think it's better to make SoD just more straightforward, usable outside stealth and doesn't guarantee crit.
this way, it will replace a backstab, not a SS, and you'll be free to only use damage abilities in stealth, and not buffs.

and become even more braindead than slice was

[kalaratic]

anyway, kalaratic, if they make it refund energy, then that would mean they need to nerf something else, cause that would mean we could get SoD + 3 SS (first one crit)..

ya i agree, if it broke even on energy it would be pretty strong and would just be macro'd to shadow dance. i don't want that either, i just want it to be cheap enough where you have like 35-40 energy after using a SoD shadow strike rather than 25. so you would still realistically have 2 shadow strikes per SoD dance but you wouldn't be at 0 zero energy after them.

that way you have the energy to make decisions like if you need to use a finisher or not during dance, or if energetic stabbing procs you would be able to fit in another shadowstrike so you would have that "fun rng" another poster was talking about (rather than right now you need the first 2 to proc energy to get the 3rd one)

[panzaghor]

ya i agree, if it broke even on energy it would be pretty strong and would just be macro'd to shadow dance. i don't want that either, i just want it to be cheap enough where you have like 35-40 energy after using a SoD shadow strike rather than 25. so you would still realistically have 2 shadow strikes per SoD dance but you wouldn't be at 0 zero energy after them.

that way you have the energy to make decisions like if you need to use a finisher or not during dance, or if energetic stabbing procs you would be able to fit in another shadowstrike so you would have that "fun rng" another poster was talking about (rather than right now you need the first 2 to proc energy to get the 3rd one)

If they heard us that would be a good solution but after the answers they gave us on ShD i highly doubt they are going to do something about it

[kalaratic]

finality now nerfed to 4% damage increase per cp for both nightblade and evisc

- - - Updated - - -

also i think akaari actually works now

[Jaronicity]

finality now nerfed to 4% damage increase per cp for both nightblade and evisc

- - - Updated - - -

also i think akaari actually works now

She's doesn't show up if you Cheap Shot.

EDIT: Now she is....

EDIT2: She will not show up if you cheap shot the raid test dummy but will if you cheap shot the other ones. So maybe she won't show up if you cheap shot something that is not stunnable?

[panzaghor]

She's doesn't show up if you Cheap Shot.

EDIT: Now she is....

EDIT2: She will not show up if you cheap shot the raid test dummy but will if you cheap shot the other ones. So maybe she won't show up if you cheap shot something that is not stunnable?

If you try to stun something that isn't stunnable it won't work, seems like the logic reason for something like this to happen

[Jaronicity]

If you try to stun something that isn't stunnable it won't work, seems like the logic reason for something like this to happen

Curious what happens when you're pvping and try to stun someone and they're immune to DR.

[panzaghor]

Curious what happens when you're pvping and try to stun someone and they're immune to DR.

I think it's going to happen the same thing because "technically" your attack missed

[Twinkelle]

SoD...

It's the unwanted love-child of Hunger for Blood and Cold Blood. I quite like the feel of the spec, but I am sad to see HfB 2.0.

That's the worst DPS cooldown I can remember.

[Reposed]

SoD...

It's the unwanted love-child of Hunger for Blood and Cold Blood. I quite like the feel of the spec, but I am sad to see HfB 2.0.

That was the worst DPS cooldown I can remember.

Even the animation is questionable, as it's just the same bland animation that SnD uses. Where is the SYMBOL? Where is teh DEATHZ??

[kalaratic]

Even the animation is questionable, as it's just the same bland animation that SnD uses. Where is the SYMBOL? Where is teh DEATHZ??

tbh ever since i got beta i have a habit of hitting SoD and then feint right after when i'm not doing anything. the swirl it does is addiciting

[panzaghor]

tbh ever since i got beta i have a habit of hitting SoD and then feint right after when i'm not doing anything. the swirl it does is addiciting

Can you show it on a video or maybe on a gif? i'm in the middle of a raid and now i want to see it

[kalaratic]

Can you show it on a video or maybe on a gif? i'm in the middle of a raid and now i want to see it

ya, it's nothing that special just something i like to do. this is what it looks like

[panzaghor]

ya, it's nothing that special just something i like to do. this is what it looks like

I'm going to make a macro for it later, sweet dancing moves

[kalaratic]

so from some raid testing i'm getting the vibe that this spec has moved away from pure single target and has found more of a middle ground between ST and AoE. idk if anyone else feels this way but on fights where there are lots of adds i find myself putting out way more damage on them rather than the boss due to how shuriken storm + shadow dance works. since you aren't using shadowstrike at all it means that huge chunk of dmg + akaari isn't going on the boss because all you are doing is shuriken storm -> finisher, repeat.

if tuning how it is were to go live today i would probably go as far to say that you would play mut for pure ST fights and sub for any fight that has adds. curious for anyone else raid testing as sub found the same results or not

[panzaghor]

so from some raid testing i'm getting the vibe that this spec has moved away from pure single target and has found more of a middle ground between ST and AoE. idk if anyone else feels this way but on fights where there are lots of adds i find myself putting out way more damage on them rather than the boss due to how shuriken storm + shadow dance works. since you aren't using shadowstrike at all it means that huge chunk of dmg + akaari isn't going on the boss because all you are doing is shuriken storm -> finisher, repeat.

if tuning how it is were to go live today i would probably go as far to say that you would play mut for pure ST fights and sub for any fight that has adds. curious for anyone else raid testing as sub found the same results or not

That sucks, they killed my fav spec

[Jaronicity]

so from some raid testing i'm getting the vibe that this spec has moved away from pure single target and has found more of a middle ground between ST and AoE. idk if anyone else feels this way but on fights where there are lots of adds i find myself putting out way more damage on them rather than the boss due to how shuriken storm + shadow dance works. since you aren't using shadowstrike at all it means that huge chunk of dmg + akaari isn't going on the boss because all you are doing is shuriken storm -> finisher, repeat.

if tuning how it is were to go live today i would probably go as far to say that you would play mut for pure ST fights and sub for any fight that has adds. curious for anyone else raid testing as sub found the same results or not

Based how Assassination is set up as kind of a "tunneling" spec, I guess how sub has panned out thus far makes a bit of sense

[shaunika123]

SoD...

It's the unwanted love-child of Hunger for Blood and Cold Blood. I quite like the feel of the spec, but I am sad to see HfB 2.0.

That's the worst DPS cooldown I can remember.

am i the only one who didnt mind HfB?
that was the last time (till now) that assa actually required some management(at least the 3stack version)

That sucks, they killed my fav spec

"my spec can do more than one thing now IT SUCKS" honestly pre legion sub fanboys are like donald trump supporters

just try sub seriously, with finality and it's interactions with both nightblade and evis, dance is even more of a small window that requires min maxing than it used to. it's way more dynamic than it was, it's no longer a "big dmg once every minute and then i might as well go afk for the next 40 seconds" build you still have to make the most of your dances, handle your energy and CPs well without overcapping/wasting any, it's a good spec.

if shadowstrike and backstab were on one button sub would be fantastic and just as complex as WoD sub, it has it's small issues but all specs do.

everyone has been crying that sub AOE suks in legion, they buff it and that's bad.. i mean really?