German Police Raid 60 Homes For ‘Xenophobic’ Facebook Posts

[Exeris]

I did not, as political comments are not sensible restrictions.

But if you think it wasn't clear what I meant, allow me to rephrase: Europeans are not free to speak their minds, as this article goes to show.

What an ignorant comment..

[BannedForViews]

I didn't say that? I said speech that incites hate and violence shouldn't be tolerated.

And I am saying that that type of speech is a natural freedom all humans have, which it is. You need to be very clear what "incites hate and violence" means, because you're on a very slippery slope there.

[Deleted]

Why?

10yyyyyyyyyyyyyydidntyouexplainyouknewthiswascoming

Because a broad statement about a group of people is unlikely to hurt anyone, unless they had it coming. It's also not necessarily a lie.

Whereas wrongly accusing a specific individual can have major financial/social consequences. Just think about all those rape accusations and how people despite being found not guilty still find out their lives have been ruined.

[BannedForViews]

What an ignorant comment..

There is actually quite a lot that is illegal to say in different European countries that is not illegal at all in the United States. Whether or not you agree with that being a good or bad thing, it is clearly true that to stifle any sort of speech is a restriction on freedom.

[Theinquisition]

Oh.My.God.

How do you mouth breathers make it through the day.

Scary isn't it?

[Holofernes]

crime is crime. this has nothing , absolutely nothing to do with freedom of speech, as some of you think.
And police doesnt just raid like this. they get the task from a state attorney, after he comes to the decision that it is reasonable and important enough to give a warrant.(the good of unverletzlichkeit der wohnung / invulnerabilty of homeplace (no one , not even police can come in your house / flat if you dont allow it), is regarded VERY high in german law.So to give up this high valued law and allow police to force-entry a homeplace is something that doesnt happen if there is not a severe proof of crimes commited.

[Deleted]

I didn't say that? I said speech that incites hate and violence shouldn't be tolerated.

Even if it is the truth backed by statistics?
Is that not showing issues below the rug?

[Deleted]

Not sure if everyone knows what happened ~80 years ago, but that's pretty much the reason why it's not allowed to do it in Germany.


Also, hate speech actually hurts human dignity, which is comparable to hurt someone physically.... yep, it is.

[Deleted]

Rape accusations hurt because people believe them, even after the court can't find sufficient evidence to convict them.

But you're telling me that if just as many people believed every member of x group raped people, it wouldn't also hurt the members of that group?

If that group consists out of a million people? Rather unlikely.

Unless, it's true of course.

As PrimaryColor also truthfully stated, libel laws are mainly about financial damage. So you see, freedom of speech prevails yet again.

[lonely zergling]

See... if you break this law:

§ 130 (Incitement to hatred)

Whosoever, in a manner capable of disturbing the public peace:

1. incites hatred against a national, racial, religious group or a group defined by their ethnic origins, against segments of the population or individuals because of their belonging to one of the aforementioned groups or segments of the population or calls for violent or arbitrary measures against them; or

2. assaults the human dignity of others by insulting, maliciously maligning an aforementioned group, segments of the population or individuals because of their belonging to one of the aforementioned groups or segments of the population, or defaming segments of the population,

shall be liable to imprisonment from three months to five years

You deserve to get visits from men in blue. Dont break the law.

[PC2]

crime is crime. this has nothing , absolutely nothing to do with freedom of speech, as some of you think.
And police doesnt just raid like this. they get the task from a state attorney, after he comes to the decision that it is reasonable and important enough to give a warrant.(the good of unverletzlichkeit der wohnung / invulnerabilty of homeplace (no one , not even police can come in your house / flat if you dont allow it), is regarded VERY high in german law.So to give up this high valued law and allow police to force-entry a homeplace is something that doesnt happen if there is not a severe proof of crimes commited.

Yeah like saying the Holocaust didn't happen. Clearly Germans cant argue against that, better put them in prison because feelings.

[Deleted]

See... if you break this law:



You deserve to get visits from men in blue. Dont break the law.

so if I say Muslims have problems integrating into Western society (a fact) that's hate speech and will get me locked up in the Fourth Reich?

[lonely zergling]

so if I say Muslims have problems integrating into Western society (a fact) that's hate speech and will get me locked up in the Fourth Reich?

No. That is not hate speech if you write it like you did.

[Deleted]

If it's true that people won't believe it, it's only because we've learned over the years to assume people who say that type of thing are stupid and/or assholes. It has nothing to do with the volume of accusations protecting members of the group. You can look back to times when racism was much more prevalent and see all sorts of crazy shit people believed about whoever. If we allow that sort of environment to be fostered underneath our very noses, you can bet we will see it hurting people again. I'm not saying it's a sign of an epidemic to come or anything, but just think about how that hotel employee in Avon, Ohio allowed her misconceptions about Muslims and Middle Eastern people to run away with her to the point that she outright fabricated accusations against him. There is nothing stopping that sort of thing from being more widespread if the same level of ignorance and fear becomes commonplace.

I disagree. I believe letting these people voice their hateful opinions is both their right and ultimately good as it allows the more reasonable people to clearly and logically refute their insanity.

It's true that in the past (most prominantly Nazi Germany) this kind of freedom of speech had disastrious consequences, or so it would seem. When in fact it was a lot more complicated than that, Antisemitism was a scapegoat nothing else. It would have never led to the Holocaust if Germany hadn't lost WW1 and in the way they did.

But look at the US, 60 years ago racism was national sport and nowadays it's pretty much non-existent. Despite our proper freedom of speech with almost no compromising.

My point is, freedom of speech isn't the problem. Ignorance is.

The only thing you accomplish by shutting these people up or locking them away is making them martyrs. And that's the entire fucking point: Silencing someone for a political opinion is a disaster waiting to happen.

[BannedForViews]

crime is crime. this has nothing , absolutely nothing to do with freedom of speech, as some of you think.
And police doesnt just raid like this. they get the task from a state attorney, after he comes to the decision that it is reasonable and important enough to give a warrant.(the good of unverletzlichkeit der wohnung / invulnerabilty of homeplace (no one , not even police can come in your house / flat if you dont allow it), is regarded VERY high in german law.So to give up this high valued law and allow police to force-entry a homeplace is something that doesnt happen if there is not a severe proof of crimes commited.

The hoops that must be jumped through are irrelevant. Those same hoops must be jumped through in the US. The difference is that according to the information presented here, what they think of as illegal in Germany is completely legal in the US. how do YOU not see that is what we are discussing here, Germany's very narrow minded view of personal freedoms.

[Tennis]

Even if it is the truth backed by statistics?
Is that not showing issues below the rug?

If it's truth backed by statistics then obviously it's a different situation. You can go about it in a decent way though.

[Celista]

Oh.My.God.

How do you mouth breathers make it through the day.

I'm not sure what's at odds with those two sentences. Note the sentence in between the two sentences that you decided to blow up for some inexplicable reason...

Yes the police can arrest you for making death threats, making plans to harm people, etc. It happens literally all the fucking time, your rights to free speech aren't being infringed upon if you're making comments like "I'm going to go over to x neighborhood and kill all the fucking immigrants", which I 100% guarantee that is what happened here. Several of these people likely belonged to some sort of hate group. If they arrested people for saying things like "I hate Muslims" then you might as well arrest half of Europe at this point.

People need to use some common sense instead of freaking out and being rude on the internet by referring to other people as "mouth breathers" because they are unable to coherently formulate a logical thought of their own.

[BannedForViews]

Not sure if everyone knows what happened ~80 years ago, but that's pretty much the reason why it's not allowed to do it in Germany.


Also, hate speech actually hurts human dignity, which is comparable to hurt someone physically.... yep, it is.

I'm sorry, we shall create a safe space over here for you, so your feelings aren't hurt, because it's the same as me breaking your leg with a baseball bat.

[Deleted]

We don't know if she's going to get elected. Nobody said our country was perfect.

Elected lol, how about having her abide the law to begin with.

Or right, you are not above putting crooks in charge of your country.

#Fair.

[PC2]

Yes the police can arrest you for making death threats, making plans to harm people, etc. It happens literally all the fucking time, your rights to free speech aren't being infringed upon if you're making comments like "I'm going to go over to x neighborhood and kill all the fucking immigrants", which I 100% guarantee that is what happened here. Several of these people likely belonged to some sort of hate group. If they arrested people for saying things like "I hate Muslims" then you might as well arrest half of Europe at this point.

How does that relate to getting raided by police because you hurt someones emotional feelings?