Also, for everyone talking about the difference between Momentum and nemesis, if you are that concerned about NOT using a talent that is marginally better ATM then chances are you are in a raiding situation where it doesnt matter which one you choose. In all actuality the dps loss will be minimal and not noticed by you or your raid.
TL;DR play what you want to play if this is a huge issue for you, you will enjoy the class more.
bloodlet ignites but saving 2 charges doesn't do any more damage than just using it on cooldown. master of the glaive is useful because regardless of how skilled you are, you're going to lose a cast or two if you don't have a charge system to let a the cooldown over flow into as you're preparing to cast it, especially when playing momentum and wanting to make sure you always have momentum up for throw glaive. after the demon reborn nerf, the entire tier is pretty pointless as far as dps contribution.
All your arguments become null and void when you post something as asinine as this. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I only do pugs and don't try and eke out the maximum from the class I play.
And no, talents in a tier WILL be on par with each other; the only exception being active v passive, simply because passive means you don't have to do anything special since the game is doing it for you. That was the entire point of changing the talent system from what we had before to what we have now. Making one talent in a tier the best will just force everyone to go for that talent since if they aren't, they're doing it wrong. As I mentioned before, don't expect brownie points just because you're using a talent. If you're using it because you want an advantage and not because you enjoy the playstyle, you're hurting yourself. All the talents in the Momentum tier, while not being completely equal, are well within the margin of error, and that's quite an accomplishment by Blizzard, and that's how it should stay.
1. thats not how logical argumentation works, a tactless comment doesnt affect his/her level of correctness
2.while it was tactless he did say the PUG MENTALITY not that you only pug, a mentality can permeate outside of its origination(not an agreement just objective view)
3. Blizzard has said time and again that they are in support of skilled play offering better rewards, so there ARE going to be circumstances where this is the case. That being said most of these talents (with the introduction of pvp talent tree) are geared towards raiding, if you are not a mythic raider you are in the majority, blizzard balances damage along these lines, to provide balance to the vast majority. So, if you are playing at a higher level there will be a disparity between talents because one can be utilized better. Sims are on Patchwerk style, in a real scenario Nem will fall under Momentum by a larger amount if you can properly use momentum because it is more on demand. If you cant properly use Momentum then Nem will be better because Momentum will not have uptime at the right times or enough. THIS IS OK. it is ok to have a skill cap on something and reward players for better skill- will there be times i use nem because im tired/having an off night and it will perform better-you bet, but there is no reason to be upset if someone wants more reward for hard work, and if anyone cant understand that then maybe wow isnt the game for them, because that is a philosophy that blizzard embraces on a regular basis.
Bloodlet tooltip reads as this : 'Throw Glaive causes targets to bleed for 200% of the damage inflicted over 10 sec. of the effect is reapplied, any remaining damage will be added to the new Bloodlet'
so one glaive will cause a bloodlet that does 200% of the throw glaive damage as a DoT over 10 seconds. ok.
with master of glaive you have 2 instant charges of throw glaive. So now..
you have one bloodlet doing 200% damage, but you use both throw glaive charges together...
As per the tooltip - any remaining damage on current bloodlet, will be added to the new bloodlet.
so you have 2 x 200% DoT for 10 seconds = 400% of throw glaive damage as a dot over the next 10 seconds.
a 400% damage 10 second DoT sounds pretty good to me
- - - Updated - - -
lets assume
throw glaive hits for 50k
200% of that is 100k , so now you have 100k damage over 10 seconds,
add a second throw glaive because of the Mark of glaive talent.
now work out the damage to fury cost ratio.
that 200k DoT costs 20 fury(10 fury per throw glaive), that is one demons bite or 1 fel rush(with fel mastery)
thats 200k over 10 seconds now.
and lets remember throw glaive hits harder then 50k plus if it is used in aoe situation, thats 2-3 200k dots instantly without having to swap targets
Haven't had an awful lot of time to play Beta thus far, i was less than a bar away from 102 before the servers went down
Seriously in love though. I think Havoc and I are gonna need to go get a room. I'm currently running with Fel Mastery and Demonic Appetite, and I thoroughly enjoy the massive infusion of Fury you get when you Fel Rush through a target to pick up a lesser soul fragment.
The Dead City... it... calls to me...
Fellow Havoc Demon Hunters, I am in Beta as well as of now. As soon as I log the DH I get the shutdown message
Hope I see you in game.
I come across a quiet river, that wonders through the trees.
I stare into its running waters and fall unto my knees.
In resignation to the forest, that's held me for so long.
I close my eyes and drift away into nature's evensong.
I'm level 102 and I can say that you'll have more fun when you get to 102. Pick Felblade first and have at it. I'm really enjoying the class though I haven't played with Momentum yet (In raid testing).
Anyone have any preliminary numbers in raid gear yet? Apparently DHs were pretty strong but it's really likely it's way too early for this information still.
I think you misunderstood my comment - the other chap was commenting on pug mentality, and leaders kicking people doing under 40k dps - this was in relation to our mini discussion about different classes and their different capabilities on dps depending on balance.
My response was simply - what can you do about Pug leaders that kick people indiscriminately for their dps - regardless of the fact that 40k dps (or insert whatever number here) may not be possible/realistic for that class because of balance.
I wasnt saying people who pug are shit. who says that? i've met my oldest friends in wow from pugs and likely will be pugging normal and heroic for Legion because not enough of my oldies will come back for legion.
Realm First Grand Master Enchanter
Well i humbly disagree. I can tell you now, i do not have beta. i havent touched a DH. but i am maining one for legion because i like the fantasy, have always wanted to dual wield glaives, the animations and spells look awesome. I have read every post of this thread, and all threads pertaining to DH's, as well as all relevant videos and i can tell you i dont want to play, or like the look or idea of the momentum build, so i likely wont play it UNLESS the delta between that and the 2nd best spec is SO BIG that you would be a fool not to. If that happens, Blizzard has failed. However, if Vanyali is sitting over there doing 5% more damage than me because he is running momentum and i am not, then that is absolutely fine by me, and might even inspire me to one day try that spec more, and maybe even play it enough to begin to like it.
That 5% does NOT force me to play it. its 5%. if me doing 5% more dps is the difference between my raid group killing a boss or not then my raid has got bigger fucking problems than me not running a build i dont like the look of (however unfair it is of me to dislike the look of something without playing it - but then shit, i dislike the look of people i dont know, only to find out later i acutally quite like em).
Realm First Grand Master Enchanter
lol new wave of beta invites and i got in....i'm so excited my dick is hard.....time to check out DH!!!!
Realm First Grand Master Enchanter
The Dead City... it... calls to me...
throw glaive with momentum does 90k for me non crit on the terribly geared pvp 802 ilvl garbage characters