1. #2741
    Quote Originally Posted by Qlix View Post
    Thought the consensus on the Discord channel was that Throw Glaive was an ignite effect. Bloodlet with MotG would make it beneficial to bank 2 charges and get the larger dot rolling... would it not?
    I thought the consensus was that throwing a new glaive would explode the previous dot's duration and apply a new dot for the new glaive only, maybe i misunderstood that though, would be cool if it works like ignote

  2. #2742
    Also, for everyone talking about the difference between Momentum and nemesis, if you are that concerned about NOT using a talent that is marginally better ATM then chances are you are in a raiding situation where it doesnt matter which one you choose. In all actuality the dps loss will be minimal and not noticed by you or your raid.

    TL;DR play what you want to play if this is a huge issue for you, you will enjoy the class more.

  3. #2743
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeket View Post
    I thought the consensus was that throwing a new glaive would explode the previous dot's duration and apply a new dot for the new glaive only, maybe i misunderstood that though, would be cool if it works like ignote
    I mean the tooltip reads as an ignite. But even if it explodes thats a lot of upfront burst in aoe situations ala Seed of Corruption style
    Science the shit out of it!

  4. #2744
    bloodlet ignites but saving 2 charges doesn't do any more damage than just using it on cooldown. master of the glaive is useful because regardless of how skilled you are, you're going to lose a cast or two if you don't have a charge system to let a the cooldown over flow into as you're preparing to cast it, especially when playing momentum and wanting to make sure you always have momentum up for throw glaive. after the demon reborn nerf, the entire tier is pretty pointless as far as dps contribution.

  5. #2745
    Quote Originally Posted by Qlix View Post
    I mean the tooltip reads as an ignite. But even if it explodes thats a lot of upfront burst in aoe situations ala Seed of Corruption style
    It's an ignite. It just rolls damage.

  6. #2746
    Quote Originally Posted by Sangomah View Post
    Might be that after the last build, its worth it as long as you have the traits.
    All the math and sims has been behind single target eye beam with traits for a while. Just people with their imaginary numbers saying otherwise.

  7. #2747
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaxar View Post
    pug mentality - eesh. what ya gonna do.
    All your arguments become null and void when you post something as asinine as this. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I only do pugs and don't try and eke out the maximum from the class I play.

    And no, talents in a tier WILL be on par with each other; the only exception being active v passive, simply because passive means you don't have to do anything special since the game is doing it for you. That was the entire point of changing the talent system from what we had before to what we have now. Making one talent in a tier the best will just force everyone to go for that talent since if they aren't, they're doing it wrong. As I mentioned before, don't expect brownie points just because you're using a talent. If you're using it because you want an advantage and not because you enjoy the playstyle, you're hurting yourself. All the talents in the Momentum tier, while not being completely equal, are well within the margin of error, and that's quite an accomplishment by Blizzard, and that's how it should stay.

  8. #2748
    Quote Originally Posted by Anamnesor View Post
    All your arguments become null and void when you post something as asinine as this. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I only do pugs and don't try and eke out the maximum from the class I play.

    And no, talents in a tier WILL be on par with each other; the only exception being active v passive, simply because passive means you don't have to do anything special since the game is doing it for you. That was the entire point of changing the talent system from what we had before to what we have now. Making one talent in a tier the best will just force everyone to go for that talent since if they aren't, they're doing it wrong. As I mentioned before, don't expect brownie points just because you're using a talent. If you're using it because you want an advantage and not because you enjoy the playstyle, you're hurting yourself. All the talents in the Momentum tier, while not being completely equal, are well within the margin of error, and that's quite an accomplishment by Blizzard, and that's how it should stay.
    1. thats not how logical argumentation works, a tactless comment doesnt affect his/her level of correctness
    2.while it was tactless he did say the PUG MENTALITY not that you only pug, a mentality can permeate outside of its origination(not an agreement just objective view)

    3. Blizzard has said time and again that they are in support of skilled play offering better rewards, so there ARE going to be circumstances where this is the case. That being said most of these talents (with the introduction of pvp talent tree) are geared towards raiding, if you are not a mythic raider you are in the majority, blizzard balances damage along these lines, to provide balance to the vast majority. So, if you are playing at a higher level there will be a disparity between talents because one can be utilized better. Sims are on Patchwerk style, in a real scenario Nem will fall under Momentum by a larger amount if you can properly use momentum because it is more on demand. If you cant properly use Momentum then Nem will be better because Momentum will not have uptime at the right times or enough. THIS IS OK. it is ok to have a skill cap on something and reward players for better skill- will there be times i use nem because im tired/having an off night and it will perform better-you bet, but there is no reason to be upset if someone wants more reward for hard work, and if anyone cant understand that then maybe wow isnt the game for them, because that is a philosophy that blizzard embraces on a regular basis.

  9. #2749
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by MrElusive View Post
    And how does that do more damage than getting one cast every 10 seconds? In terms of numbers of casts MotG only gives you one more per fight. In fact, waiting until you have two charges negates the whole point of having charges in the first place, since the main advantage of multiple charges is that you can delay casting it a bit without losing any casts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeket View Post
    theoretically it allows you to bank 2 charges for a little extra damage on an important burst phase
    Quote Originally Posted by Qlix View Post
    Thought the consensus on the Discord channel was that Throw Glaive was an ignite effect. Bloodlet with MotG would make it beneficial to bank 2 charges and get the larger dot rolling... would it not?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeket View Post
    I thought the consensus was that throwing a new glaive would explode the previous dot's duration and apply a new dot for the new glaive only, maybe i misunderstood that though, would be cool if it works like ignote
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanyali View Post
    It's an ignite. It just rolls damage.
    Bloodlet tooltip reads as this : 'Throw Glaive causes targets to bleed for 200% of the damage inflicted over 10 sec. of the effect is reapplied, any remaining damage will be added to the new Bloodlet'

    so one glaive will cause a bloodlet that does 200% of the throw glaive damage as a DoT over 10 seconds. ok.

    with master of glaive you have 2 instant charges of throw glaive. So now..

    you have one bloodlet doing 200% damage, but you use both throw glaive charges together...

    As per the tooltip - any remaining damage on current bloodlet, will be added to the new bloodlet.

    so you have 2 x 200% DoT for 10 seconds = 400% of throw glaive damage as a dot over the next 10 seconds.

    a 400% damage 10 second DoT sounds pretty good to me

    - - - Updated - - -

    lets assume

    throw glaive hits for 50k

    200% of that is 100k , so now you have 100k damage over 10 seconds,

    add a second throw glaive because of the Mark of glaive talent.

    now work out the damage to fury cost ratio.

    that 200k DoT costs 20 fury(10 fury per throw glaive), that is one demons bite or 1 fel rush(with fel mastery)

    thats 200k over 10 seconds now.

    and lets remember throw glaive hits harder then 50k plus if it is used in aoe situation, thats 2-3 200k dots instantly without having to swap targets

  10. #2750
    Bloodsail Admiral Unkhrahuun the Atoned's Avatar
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    Haven't had an awful lot of time to play Beta thus far, i was less than a bar away from 102 before the servers went down

    Seriously in love though. I think Havoc and I are gonna need to go get a room. I'm currently running with Fel Mastery and Demonic Appetite, and I thoroughly enjoy the massive infusion of Fury you get when you Fel Rush through a target to pick up a lesser soul fragment.
    The Dead City... it... calls to me...

  11. #2751
    Brewmaster Mefistophelis's Avatar
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    Fellow Havoc Demon Hunters, I am in Beta as well as of now. As soon as I log the DH I get the shutdown message

    Hope I see you in game.
    I come across a quiet river, that wonders through the trees.
    I stare into its running waters and fall unto my knees.
    In resignation to the forest, that's held me for so long.
    I close my eyes and drift away into nature's evensong.

  12. #2752
    Quote Originally Posted by Unanilnomen View Post
    Haven't had an awful lot of time to play Beta thus far, i was less than a bar away from 102 before the servers went down

    Seriously in love though. I think Havoc and I are gonna need to go get a room. I'm currently running with Fel Mastery and Demonic Appetite, and I thoroughly enjoy the massive infusion of Fury you get when you Fel Rush through a target to pick up a lesser soul fragment.
    I'm level 102 and I can say that you'll have more fun when you get to 102. Pick Felblade first and have at it. I'm really enjoying the class though I haven't played with Momentum yet (In raid testing).

    Anyone have any preliminary numbers in raid gear yet? Apparently DHs were pretty strong but it's really likely it's way too early for this information still.

  13. #2753
    Quote Originally Posted by Anamnesor View Post
    All your arguments become null and void when you post something as asinine as this. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I only do pugs and don't try and eke out the maximum from the class I play.

    .
    I think you misunderstood my comment - the other chap was commenting on pug mentality, and leaders kicking people doing under 40k dps - this was in relation to our mini discussion about different classes and their different capabilities on dps depending on balance.

    My response was simply - what can you do about Pug leaders that kick people indiscriminately for their dps - regardless of the fact that 40k dps (or insert whatever number here) may not be possible/realistic for that class because of balance.

    I wasnt saying people who pug are shit. who says that? i've met my oldest friends in wow from pugs and likely will be pugging normal and heroic for Legion because not enough of my oldies will come back for legion.
    Realm First Grand Master Enchanter

  14. #2754
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiase View Post
    And if you are lucky enough to get the legendary wrist, throw glaive would be adding another 50% dmg for each ricochet.
    wow ye you are right that could be pretty crazy damage

  15. #2755
    Quote Originally Posted by Anamnesor View Post
    And no, talents in a tier WILL be on par with each other; the only exception being active v passive, simply because passive means you don't have to do anything special since the game is doing it for you. That was the entire point of changing the talent system from what we had before to what we have now. Making one talent in a tier the best will just force everyone to go for that talent since if they aren't, they're doing it wrong. As I mentioned before, don't expect brownie points just because you're using a talent. If you're using it because you want an advantage and not because you enjoy the playstyle, you're hurting yourself. All the talents in the Momentum tier, while not being completely equal, are well within the margin of error, and that's quite an accomplishment by Blizzard, and that's how it should stay.
    Well i humbly disagree. I can tell you now, i do not have beta. i havent touched a DH. but i am maining one for legion because i like the fantasy, have always wanted to dual wield glaives, the animations and spells look awesome. I have read every post of this thread, and all threads pertaining to DH's, as well as all relevant videos and i can tell you i dont want to play, or like the look or idea of the momentum build, so i likely wont play it UNLESS the delta between that and the 2nd best spec is SO BIG that you would be a fool not to. If that happens, Blizzard has failed. However, if Vanyali is sitting over there doing 5% more damage than me because he is running momentum and i am not, then that is absolutely fine by me, and might even inspire me to one day try that spec more, and maybe even play it enough to begin to like it.

    That 5% does NOT force me to play it. its 5%. if me doing 5% more dps is the difference between my raid group killing a boss or not then my raid has got bigger fucking problems than me not running a build i dont like the look of (however unfair it is of me to dislike the look of something without playing it - but then shit, i dislike the look of people i dont know, only to find out later i acutally quite like em).
    Realm First Grand Master Enchanter

  16. #2756
    lol new wave of beta invites and i got in....i'm so excited my dick is hard.....time to check out DH!!!!
    Realm First Grand Master Enchanter

  17. #2757
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiase View Post
    The item says "Equip: Throw Glaive deals 50% increased damage with each ricochet."
    (I don't know if it's 50% from the original with or the newest ricochet but I'll assume it's the first TG it means)

    Now I am really bad with numbers but I'll try to make an example using the numbers you had:


    Legendary wrist (without bloodlet & MotG):
    50k dps on 1st target
    75k dps on 2nd target
    100k dps on 3rd target


    Legendary wrist with bloodlet (without MotG):
    50k dps on 1st target / bleeds for 100k over 10 sec
    75k dps on 2nd target / bleeds for 150k over 10 sec
    100k dps on 3rd target / bleeds for 200k over 10 sec


    Legendary wrist with bloodlet & MotG:
    50k dps on 1st target / bleeds for 200k over 10 sec
    75k dps on 2nd target / bleeds for 300k over 10 sec
    100k dps on 3rd target / bleeds for 400k over 10 sec

    haha woooooow that is nuts, you are correct with those numbers.

  18. #2758
    Bloodsail Admiral Unkhrahuun the Atoned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by therayeffect View Post
    I'm level 102 and I can say that you'll have more fun when you get to 102. Pick Felblade first and have at it. I'm really enjoying the class though I haven't played with Momentum yet (In raid testing).

    Anyone have any preliminary numbers in raid gear yet? Apparently DHs were pretty strong but it's really likely it's way too early for this information still.
    Really enjoying Felblade, though between Felblade, Demonic Appetite, and Fel Mastery, i have more Fury than i know what to do with sometimes, lol.

    Very much looking forward to the later talents that'll give me more options to spend all this Fury.
    The Dead City... it... calls to me...

  19. #2759
    throw glaive with momentum does 90k for me non crit on the terribly geared pvp 802 ilvl garbage characters

  20. #2760
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiase View Post
    damn I completely forgot about momentum / Nemesis buff too.
    The numbers we'll be seeing now should be more realistic then I guess.





    BADLY GEARED iLVL 802 DH WITH MOMENTUM OR NEMESIS ACTIVE USING THROW GLAIVE:

    Legendary wrist (without bloodlet & MotG):
    100k dps on 1st target
    150k dps on 2nd target
    200k dps on 3rd target


    Legendary wrist with bloodlet (without MotG):
    100k dps on 1st target / bleeds for 200k over 10 sec
    150k dps on 2nd target / bleeds for 300k over 10 sec
    200k dps on 3rd target / bleeds for 400k over 10 sec


    Legendary wrist with bloodlet & MotG:
    100k dps on 1st target / bleeds for 400k over 10 sec
    150k dps on 2nd target / bleeds for 600k over 10 sec
    200k dps on 3rd target / bleeds for 800k over 10 sec

    haha jesus that really is crazy. ye with nemesis/momentum that really will be some insane damage.

    20% buff from nemesis/momentum makes 800k go to 960k and thats on a bad geared DH :O

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