Terrorist attack in Nice France

[minteK917]

What, are we going to have people calling for murder of civilians for the next 15 years?

Well, yes? Im not sure what answer you are expecting. Yes many of your citizens will demand blood if their quality of life is impeded, because of actions they did not commit themselves.

[Deleted]

Partly because of the immigrants that arrived before the change, since they are still in Europe (that there are plans to expedite sending some back doesn't change that); and partly because they can also bring families (those rules are also changing - of course), and partly because it shows the hypocrisy of the politicians in charge: if we can have these stricter rules and closed borders this year - why was it impossible a year ago?

However, in the case of the attacks in France it is mostly people that arrived years several years ago; even though some of the attackers have been recent asylum-seekers. For France it is more complicated since parts of north Africa was French territory until after WWII with some special rules for immigration from those countries.
That is about the 2nd part - that it isn't only problem with new immigrants, but also a problem of integration of existing ones - and no-one are presenting good solutions for that; which means that the current increase of asylum-seekers and their children will become 2nd class citizens and once their life takes a less than ideal turn, they will turn to extremism - in 5-20 years, similarly as the ones behind the current attacks.

Why was it impossible a year ago? Because we were caught sleeping.

Whether or not immigrants coming now become 2nd class citizens is up to us also.

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Well, yes? Im not sure what answer you are expecting. Yes many of your citizens will demand blood if their quality of life is impeded, because of actions they did not commit themselves.

Do you come from a country where people demand blood if their quality of life is impeded?

[Slant]

That would be Poland and it's not barbaric. It's cold blooded heartless defense that doesnt bothers itself with short term heart satisfaction.

Ok, here's the problem I have with you. These refugees coming over through Greece or on boats or wherever? They're unarmed. Even the terrorists they bring with them? Unarmed. What you call "cold blooded heartless defense"? That's murder. And on the scale you suggest we do it? Mass murder. Ramp it up a notch and we're talking genocide.

That's the problem I have with you. Border control shooting at people is fine if they're defending against an ACTUAL invasion of troops with arms. Shooting at unarmed civilians? That's not okay. And you've just crossed the line here.

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All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others

And this? Straight up neonazi propaganda.

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Not shot people... shoot invaders.
Not sink boats... let them drift.

Nuances make a difference.

Tomato, tomatoe. You're a psychopathical neonazi twisting semantics to justify mass murder. I should call the fucking cops on your ass based on pure principle. What you're doing is incitement.

[minteK917]

Do you come from a country where people demand blood if their quality of life is impeded?

Our quality of life has only been increasing and still is. The last time citizen asked for blood was long ago, electing people that vowed to lead a revolution against the british empire, sadly once elected their attack failed and they were executed by the british representative or sent to australia. So yeah i guess, people voted for blood.

[Forogil]

The borders aren't closed, and while the influx from Greece decreased, the one in Italy from Libya increased. Can't really be asking those countries to carry the burden on their own.

The influx to/from Greece decreased a lot. In October 2015, 216k arrived in Greece (one month), in Jan-May 2016 in total 160k arrived (5 months). Yes, there are differences due to weather, but the largest change is due to other factors; as people kept coming during January and February. The difference in the Balkan route is also large - because of border fences. It might still change, especially if the situation in Turkey becomes worse, but for now it seems like a massive decrease.
The flow to Italy - from Libya and other countries (including Greece and directly from east of Greece) was 50k in total for Jan-May 2016; i.e. still smaller.

[Lost Zero]

The world is rather depressing at the moment. Sigh.

[jugzilla]

How about not take in any migrants and not have to deal with the crap? Don't wanna sound too much like Trump, but....

[Deleted]

How about not take in any migrants and not have to deal with the crap? Don't wanna sound too much like Trump, but....

wouldn't that cripple the economy if suddenly nobody was allowed in?

[Forogil]

Why was it impossible a year ago? Because we were caught sleeping.

Were people sleepwalking when they showed signs of "refugee welcome"? Was Merkel's talk that allegedly encouraged refugees, an indication that she had just woken up and hadn't investigated the situation?
Were some people actually awake? Shouldn't we give them power in that case?

Whether or not immigrants coming now become 2nd class citizens is up to us also.

We failed in the past (at least some of us think that people turning to terrorism is a sign of failure) - what are we doing differently this time?

[stomination]

wouldn't that cripple the economy if suddenly nobody was allowed in?

I think he said migrants not everyone.

[jugzilla]

wouldn't that cripple the economy if suddenly nobody was allowed in?

Refugees. And if there is a country who has ever advanced itself by letting crazy amounts of refugees in, Id love to hear the story.

[Slant]

Refugees. And if there is a country who has ever advanced itself by letting crazy amounts of refugees in, Id love to hear the story.

Um, the US. Anything else you'd like to know?

[Deleted]

Yes, it is, actually. You may not give a care about human lives, but somehow the world in general doesn't agree with you. I'm talking like... everyone that is not a psychopath doesn't just dismiss lives like you do just now.

You mean world you know that hasnt been burned by pathological alturism in the past.
it's not psychopathy but simply caring for your own first.

[stomination]

No, they do it because there is overwhelming demand so every fisherman is turning human trafficker. Whether we send them back or not, apart from being practically impossible, will not in any way change the fact that there are people queueing up to jump on those ships.
Now, getting back on the praticality of it. How do you suggest we send them back? We have an obligation legally (and as human being), to help them if we find them adrift in the middle of the ocean on an overcrowded boat.
So what should we do? In practical terms I mean. Pick em up and then send our boats to countries like Libya? Or maybe give them food and turn them around?
Tell me, practically, what would you suggest we do?

We tend to send people back to cuba once they are healthy again after a dangerous trip.

[jugzilla]

Um, the US. Anything else you'd like to know?

Did you honestly think I wasn't prepared for that?

Yes, the various Indian Nations were completely destroyed by unchecked immigration. Next question?

[stomination]

Um, the US. Anything else you'd like to know?

We started out that way and then we set a limit of how many ppl from each country. Most of our issue is not the fact that we are allowing migrants in...its that so many of them illegally come in.

[Deleted]

Refugees. And if there is a country who has ever advanced itself by letting crazy amounts of refugees in, Id love to hear the story.

He didn't say refugees he said migrants

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I think he said migrants not everyone.

Migrants is anybody moving in....

[Deleted]

Our quality of life has only been increasing and still is. The last time citizen asked for blood was long ago, electing people that vowed to lead a revolution against the british empire, sadly once elected their attack failed and they were executed by the british representative or sent to australia. So yeah i guess, people voted for blood.

I dont really care about the history behind it. We haven't asked for blood in a while and we realise this is an evolution in human society.

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The influx to/from Greece decreased a lot. In October 2015, 216k arrived in Greece (one month), in Jan-May 2016 in total 160k arrived (5 months). Yes, there are differences due to weather, but the largest change is due to other factors; as people kept coming during January and February. The difference in the Balkan route is also large - because of border fences. It might still change, especially if the situation in Turkey becomes worse, but for now it seems like a massive decrease.
The flow to Italy - from Libya and other countries (including Greece and directly from east of Greece) was 50k in total for Jan-May 2016; i.e. still smaller.

For now it seems like a massive decrease as it was reported on the news. It's good, but we're still asking Greece and Italy to carry this burden.

[minteK917]

I dont really care about the history behind it. We haven't asked for blood in a while and we realise this is an evolution in human society.

My point exactly, because you did not have to. The worst the condition is, the more people will demand radical solutions. If you cant forsee that, not sure what to tell you. Buckle up?

[Deleted]

Were people sleepwalking when they showed signs of "refugee welcome"? Was Merkel's talk that allegedly encouraged refugees, an indication that she had just woken up and hadn't investigated the situation?
Were some people actually awake? Shouldn't we give them power in that case?


We failed in the past (at least some of us think that people turning to terrorism is a sign of failure) - what are we doing differently this time?

Merkel's talk achieved absolutely nothing. A politician's statement plays no role in geopolitical event of this kind.
Well, the signs "refugees welcome" were mostly to counterbalance the inhuman treatment these people received from Greece to Austria.

The EU was caught asleep as this crisis was surely incoming and we still dont have a system in place.

Immigration was handled poorly in the past. France is a glaring example of it. Ghettoisation needs to be avoided and there shoulnd't be a sub state that replace the state like there is in French jails.