[7.0] New Paladin Abilities and Talents

[Zoopercat]

@frmorrison - can you link me a simulation report that sims your character? That will let me see your character exactly and how the iLevel is being calculated.

[ruiizu]

@Laurcus you mention having 16 ranks in Ashbringer. I assume you went for Ashes to Ashes first as is the only reasonable choice, which means you have at most one rank in Wrath of the Ashbringer. As you note, Crusade is insanely strong, so you're missing out on a pretty huge chunk of our burst potential there.

Looks like in 7.0 Ret is consigned to "good at burst, single target, and defensive support, but terrible at mobility and AoE". That's a reasonable niche to have (PvE at least, which is all I'm ever able to really speak to) as long as we're not TOO terrible in our weakness areas. It's all down to tuning; I expect major numbers hotfixes for all classes both between prepatch and launch and in the first month of Legion.

One issue is that in raids, every class needs to be good at single target. If not, they're garbage; bosses rarely die to just AE.

[Merrena]

One issue is that in raids, every class needs to be good at single target. If not, they're garbage; bosses rarely die to just AE.

But Hellfire Assault /s

[frmorrison]

@frmorrison - can you link me a simulation report that sims your character? That will let me see your character exactly and how the iLevel is being calculated.

I can't link it, but you can type in Ashstrike on the US-Mal'Ganis server.

[Sungamnori]

Well, there it is. Pre-patch comes out July 19th. This coming Tuesday. 4 days from now.

The timer has run out. If Blizzard had fun ignoring the 100 pages of Ret feedback they got on the beta forums... just wait until the floodgates open and the general population gets to experience the shit-show for themselves.

[OrcsRLame]

One issue is that in raids, every class needs to be good at single target. If not, they're garbage; bosses rarely die to just AE.

While this is true to some degree, some bosses definitely require more AoE than single target. Xhul and Manny being prime examples. Like, warlocks go Demo on manny and around 50% of their damage is done to imps. AoE is really really important on some fights.

Or to use ret as an example, Final Verdict vs Seraphim. Final Verdict is for cleave, Seraphim is for single target.

[ruiizu]

While this is true to some degree, some bosses definitely require more AoE than single target. Xhul and Manny being prime examples. Like, warlocks go Demo on manny and around 50% of their damage is done to imps. AoE is really really important on some fights.

Or to use ret as an example, Final Verdict vs Seraphim. Final Verdict is for cleave, Seraphim is for single target.

I'll be forthcoming: I used Final Verdict the entire expansion and never looked back on a single fight. Hated Seraphim and Seals.

[OrcsRLame]

I'll be forthcoming: I used Final Verdict the entire expansion and never looked back on a single fight. Hated Seraphim and Seals.

Well, I was just using Sera vs FV as an example because one is always superior on any given fight. Seraphim is for single target, Fel Lord, Tyrant, Reaver, HHC, etc. FV is best on cleave fights, Archimonde, Manny, Xhul, etc. Overall I think FV is the better talent because it's the go to talent on the more difficult fights. Like, if I had to pick one, it'd be FV, despite it being inferior for raw single target.

I don't have a preference concerning playstyle.

[Merrena]

For the Pre-patch, should I gem and enchant for full Haste?

[Temna]

I'll be forthcoming: I used Final Verdict the entire expansion and never looked back on a single fight. Hated Seraphim and Seals.

I did a bit of Seraphim where I thought I could, otherwise yah I was FV all the way :/ I really wanted Seals to work tbh.

[Lumineus]

I liked Seraphim early on when the goal was to cram as much damage into Scabbard window as possible and you could pair it with Holy Avenger to get it rolling quickly so it would stay synced with 1ppm procs. But then neither tier set supported that combination and I didn't like waiting until my procs were over and my potion was half gone before being able to actually do damage.

[Aerknard]

FV is the simplest considering passive. I've tried Seraphim and Swapping Seals they are just not for me. I believe Seraphim can become inquistion replacement if dev tune down or remove the hopo requirement altogether and no cd.
19 July is legion pre expansion patch, Can I assume there is no more tuning?

[Merrena]

FV is the simplest considering passive. I've tried Seraphim and Swapping Seals they are just not for me. I believe Seraphim can become inquistion replacement if dev tune down or remove the hopo requirement altogether and no cd.
19 July is legion pre expansion patch, Can I assume there is no more tuning?

There will definitely still be number tuning up til Legion launch, and probably still after.

Probably won't see large ability changes though until the first major patch.

[UR1L]

I swapped from Prot to Ret yesterday and did dungeons the whole day. My damage wasn't up there with all the DH's, Fire Mages and UH DK's but that's whatever. I don't have the two golden traits buffing DS so that's a bunch of AoE damage gone anyhow.

There was only two things I didn't like about Ret. First of all the lack of mobility. 45sec Steed isn't enough when everyone else has all kinds of movement speed increases, blinks, charges and whatever. When the tanks ran off in dungeons I was always far behind the rest of the group because of it. Secondly, the reliance on Haste. I feel like after we get a decent amount of haste the spec will be much more enjoyable to play. While I really like the Justicar's Vengeance+Divine Purpose combo, I found it quite dull to play without Crusade. Pressing that DP-JV was hella fun every time, especially if the target was stunned. And holy procs Batman when DP procs from itself. The best I've had was 4 JV crits in a row and that put quite a smile on my face.


Overall I didn't find Ret to be "omg worst spec blizz pls imma kill myself" like most here seems to think. It clearly has some issues but honestly for now I think giving us better haste scaling and buffing baseline Divine Storm a bit would be enough for me to be perfectly happy playing Ret. Making the old Pursuit of Justice(15%) a passive for Ret would be really nice for mobility.


edit: Oh, and if BoM damage could be added to ours, not the targets...that would be great. But I'm guessing the technology isn't there yet.

[Anardel]

For the Pre-patch, should I gem and enchant for full Haste?

Yes, Mastery is not our best stat. Gem and enchant Haste and on weapon Haste or Crit.

[marinos]

Yes, Mastery is not our best stat. Gem and enchant Haste and on weapon Haste or Crit.

Crit ench. on weapon should be better cause the haste one is a bit meh. Plus the crit one can extend its' duration.

[Project 501D13R]

edit: Oh, and if BoM damage could be added to ours, not the targets...that would be great. But I'm guessing the technology isn't there yet.

BoM is 'allegedly' supposed to add to our dps on the meters, but in reality all the dps meters register it as damage done by the people you buffed.

[UR1L]

BoM is 'allegedly' supposed to add to our dps on the meters, but in reality all the dps meters register it as damage done by the people you buffed.

Well, if logs can get it right I suppose it doesn't matter if skada/recount doesn't. I mean, technically you can write some code to check which paladin put BoM on which players and add their BoM damage to the Paladin but I dunno if that's of any importance to those who manage the log sites.

[Deleted]

I noticed something interesting regarding Blessings when i did a dungeon on the PTR today.

The person i put might on died and the blessing stayed on him. He got resed and still had it. So... thats good i suppose. They seem to be sticking aswell.

[Vpuh]

I noticed something interesting regarding Blessings when i did a dungeon on the PTR today.

The person i put might on died and the blessing stayed on him. He got resed and still had it. So... thats good i suppose. They seem to be sticking aswell.

It was mentioned long long time ago by devs. Another problem(i repeat myself) what if RL want to save BR for later and dont res player with Blessing?