Why aren't you vegan yet?

[falagar112]

I'm against the animal industry, but I am not a vegan.

However, I check where all my stuff comes from, I don't shop at supermarkets unless it is for (alcohol) drinks, get my veggies from a eco farmers market, get my meat from a farmer that I know (visit) treats his animals well & doesn't feed them all kinds of chemical shit, my eggs from my dad (has his own chickens, walking freely in the garden), you get the idea?

THAT will do much more to stop the animal industry then just fucking up your own diet by becoming full time vegan. I hope you check the source of your veggies too, as most Soy production is super damaging to the environment, rainforests anyone?

My ex her dad was hunting his own meat, never had so much free meat, free of crap (well.. you might find some left over bullets!), and being "wildlife", that shit is super expensive over here in the netherlands, while in finland it was cheaper then our chicken.

Humans are not meant to eat just veggies, that does not mean you can't stand against the industry and make conscious choices

PS. From my own experience (I did try vegan for about a year) - that shit is actually cheaper then all this processed food crap, so don't let money be the deciding factor. As for those people who complain about "I'd be hungry again 45 minutes later", I'd cook you a vegan meal that would fill you for the whole day, just.. try different stuff you know?

[Fuiking]

Countless of animals die every day to sate your appetite, raised to be slaughtered so to say. Polluting the environment, contributing to the green house effect.

Did you know that every male chicken born in a chicken coop is to be killed as soon it comes out of it's egg? There are reasons for it, but to think that they have no rights to live at all.

Calves? They get separated from their mothers at birth only to feed humans milk and then get slaughtered.

Bees? They collect honey for the colder times, only to be taken away.

"But muh convenience". Yes, going vegan is inconvenient, but it is steadily growing, and soon enough they will be releasing synthetic meat if you really can't stop eating meat. Just don't overdo it, not good for you.

"But muh bakery". Tough luck.

There are plenty of delicious vegan recipes and restaurants. There are many big vegan communities at your leisure. I'm sure you will find something tasty.

I dont care one bit about this vegan shit, either they take it way too far or they claim they're vegan but still wear leather, in other words: where is my medium beef?

[Snuffleupagus]

Hasnt answered my own question? I asked you to explain B12. Wtf? Lol. You are seriously retarded...

You even say above, that the B12 deficiency in animals is related to animals diet, yet you dont understand why... Is your reading comprehension this bad? Since you two idiots cant figure out that B12 was contained in our water supply before sanitation and was also on our food before it was sanitized. ie animals were getting their B12 through drinking untreated water and eating plants that were not thoroughly washed. However, since not sanitizing our water and food will also lead to us getting certain illnesses, we sanitize it, removing the B12 (bacteria). Animals (livestock) are now facing the same problem of not being able to get the B12 in their water and feed, since they drink treated water and eat feed that doesnt have the dirt, mud, feces, (B12 bacteria) etc on them.

Also, the soil content of B12 has come into question lately as even hunters that eat mainly only wild game are having B12 deficiencies. As I pointed out, most cases of B12 deficiency are from Meat Eaters. There was even a post where the person said that he/she eats a lot of meat but is still taking a monthly B12 shot. Also, as was pointed out, livestock is supplementing B12, so how is that different than you doing it?

You have an insane amount of half information. You are doing exactly what you accused me of and showing a serious lack of fundamental understanding of the subject matter. You need to read up on bioavailability and what analogues are in the context of this subject.

"Vitamin B12 is needed for cell division and blood formation. Neither plants nor animals make vitamin B12. Bacteria are responsible for producing vitamin B12. Animals get their vitamin B12 from eating foods contaminated with vitamin B12 and then the animal becomes a source of vitamin B12. Plant foods do not contain vitamin B12 except when they are contaminated by microorganisms or have vitamin B12 added to them. Thus, vegans need to look to fortified foods or supplements to get vitamin B12 in their diet.

Reed Mangels, 2006"

Most B12 is formed when you have a large amount of bacteria in the right conditions. Guess what happens to be the perfect conditions for exponential growth of bacteria? Animals with a rumen. And you're right, they lose access to the right soil to build up these bacteria populations due to overly clean water and feed. When they are intensively farmed.

So bacteria in the soil create small amounts of B12. This is not in dispute. What is in dispute is the amount of food required to sustain a large vegan population. And it's a lot. If you want to feed large amounts of people without food shortages, you go for the most efficient methods of getting nutrients. Even with the need for B12 injections, animal sources are still the easiest ways to get adequate amounts of B12 into a persons diet.

Oh wait Snuffy, does that mean that animals raised in a proper environment are still the best source of B12? Why yes it does, other Snuffy. Yes it does.

And you're damn right even people following a balanced diet can be deficient in B12. Because life isn't a fucking videogame where you do everything right and it works out for you. The interactions with B12 and our bodies are so complex that there are a multitude of reasons to not absorb B12 properly. And since depletion can take years to occur, you might not even realise it's happening.

Some fun filled reasons why you might not be getting B12:

• Alcholism
• Diabetes (use of Metformin)
• Blind loop syndrome
• Celiac disease
• Chron's disease (post-op)
• Anything that messes with the acid content in your digestive system
• Excess Potassium
• Nicotine

Every reputable medical professional in the world agrees that vegans need to eat a fortified diet to meet their nutritional requirements. There are definitely health benefits to being vegan, but this is like putting all your points into one talent tree in Vanilla WoW and ignoring the other trees. It's not optimal, and there are drawbacks.

Vegans get plenty of fibre, vitamin C, iron, and other nutrients - sometimes more. But the trade-off is less B12, calcium, zinc and other nutrients. It's not balanced and anyone trying to tell you otherwise is fucking lying.

And since you seem to be taking this as a personal attack on your right to be a vegan, let me repeat myself: YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE A VEGAN. WHAT YOU DON'T HAVE IS THE RIGHT TO SPREAD MISINFORMATION.

[Al Gorefiend]

I'm a vegetarian. Both Vegans and meativores are annoying as fuck when they preach to me about my diet. Whenever someone tells me what to put in my mouth, I retort that they should put a gag in theirs (or a bullet if they're particularly rude).

[Jump17]

I understand that it really isn't nice when people try to tell you what you should and shouldn't eat. It's really fucking in your face and I think everyone feels this way.

But, when you understand the cruelty and pain that animals go through in the industries for meat, egg and dairy, it is more immoral to be silent about it. There are better ways to just shove it in peoples face. But as you can see, the OP was just giving information and try to kindly ask people to do what really is all within us morally. I think the world has grown to realise animals are sentient and we are in the western world an animal loving nation (just ask people whether they support dog fights, trophy hunting and animal cruelty). And to support factory farming just contradicts most people's morals.

[Flatspriest]

I'm not vegan because I'm smart enough to know that a body needs more than only vegetables can give it.

[Turaska]

Because I want a proper balanced diet without having to take vitamins to make up for what isn't given by vegan foods?

[Deleted]

Arnold says i need meat to get gains so no vegan for me

[Chelle Avery]

I'm all for eating vegan but I also love the taste of grilled meat so...

[skannerz22]

eating meat doesn't mean you support cruelty
owning a farm and selling animals for meat DOES mean you support cruelty

so rather than whining at the omnivorous about cruelty how about you whine at the farmers who don't care how their animals get killed?

#bringbackgaschambers

i see all these people whining how about animals get killed and protesting and making petitions but none of them have the balls to actually find a cost effective humane method of killing them AND ACTUALLY MAKE IT HAPPEN by building their own factory and offering farmers a better solution and convincing the governments to shut down the cruel ones that don't follow your humane labs way

#sleeptightlittlecalf


when you own a slaughter house that is puting animals to sleep and anesthetic gas and hire people who aren't abusing the animals that is when you can start complaining about how everyone else is cruel

otherwise your words have no actions there is no solution when people complain and vandalize

[TirielWoW]

eating meat doesn't mean you support cruelty
owning a farm and selling animals for meat DOES mean you support cruelty

so rather than whining at the omnivorous about cruelty how about you whine at the farmers who don't care how their animals get killed?

#bringbackgaschambers

i see all these people whining how about animals get killed and protesting and making petitions but none of them have the balls to actually find a cost effective humane method of killing them AND ACTUALLY MAKE IT HAPPEN by building their own factory and offering farmers a better solution and convincing the governments to shut down the cruel ones that don't follow your humane labs way

#sleeptightlittlecalf


when you own a slaughter house that is puting animals to sleep and anesthetic gas and hire people who aren't abusing the animals that is when you can start complaining about how everyone else is cruel

otherwise your words have no actions there is no solution when people complain and vandalize

Well, I mean, I know of small farming operations who handle all of the raising and slaughter themselves. The meat is much more expensive, of course, but the owners know that their animals are treated as humanely as possible, and don't have to worry that someone they sell said animals to is going to mistreat them before or during slaughter.

[Tempguy]

I like meat. I won't live forever so I tend to want to enjoy life so long as it doesnt kill me off early.

/shrug


I'm sure living a perfect life and eating the healthiest tasteless food would be optimal, but then I die anyway and I miss out on all those tasty burgers.

[Paperfox]

A while ago I saw a guy talking about animal cruelty. When talking about cattle he said that the most humane part of the process was when the animal was killed - essentially they were shot in the brain IIRC.

Yes you may have individual places that treat the animals badly, but for the most part I believe that they are trying to do their best and that includes treating the animals humanely.

Having said all that, you are what you eat: Since a cow eats grass, beef = processed grass.

[Jump17]

eating meat doesn't mean you support cruelty
owning a farm and selling animals for meat DOES mean you support cruelty

so rather than whining at the omnivorous about cruelty how about you whine at the farmers who don't care how their animals get killed?

#bringbackgaschambers

i see all these people whining how about animals get killed and protesting and making petitions but none of them have the balls to actually find a cost effective humane method of killing them AND ACTUALLY MAKE IT HAPPEN by building their own factory and offering farmers a better solution and convincing the governments to shut down the cruel ones that don't follow your humane labs way

#sleeptightlittlecalf


when you own a slaughter house that is puting animals to sleep and anesthetic gas and hire people who aren't abusing the animals that is when you can start complaining about how everyone else is cruel

otherwise your words have no actions there is no solution when people complain and vandalize

This doesn't make much sense. If you are aware of the cruelty caused to animals in the meat eggs and dairy industry and you continue to purchase products that contain these, you are directly supporting what they do.

If you go out of your way to buy 'humane' meat, it is certainly better. But at the same time you still support exploitation of animals for personal benefit. And similarly, I would find it hard to believe that people who claim they only buy humane meat/eggs and dairy always go out of their way to discard products that have meat/eggs/dairy in them that they don't know the source of (i.e., do you know where the milk and eggs came from for those cookies?).

The whole point of veganism is to have no animals that are unnecessarily killed for human pleasure (i.e. taste or sport), not to find a cost effective way of killing them. I always found it funny how people think gas chambers are really humane yet when that was the method used for killing jews in concentration camps during the holocaust it is the most horrific form of death. Why not end the majority of animal suffering by changing your diet (slowly if it must be) to become plant based then just try to make cost effective humane death.

Personally, for me, there is no death that can be truly humane. You're taking the life of a sentient being that would otherwise want to continue living. If you give that being a shit life so that it doesn't want to continue living, then you are causing animal cruelty directly.

[RaoBurning]

Because frying bacon is the true and pure ASMR from which all other human sensations are derived.

[Mistame]

I feel sorry for the girlfriends of vegans.

[Christan]

Conscience. Doing the right thing is more important than flavor.

how does having a conscience have anything to do with being vegan or not?
personally, i love meat, i would be a pure carnivore if i could, but humans are built to be omnivores, not herbivores.

my conscience tells me to eat meat. as long as i am not eating something sentient, it does not matter. if someone put some fried canadian in front of me...i would be upset. even if something was intelligent but not sentient (i.e. can pass mirror test / can identify itself) then i'd think about it, cows may be a bit smarter than insects but they are no where near dolphins / some monkeys / elephants. which, i don't believe are served in most countries to begin with, but even if they were, i'd stay the hell away from that.

a steak from a bovine though? i am all for it..

so...when am i going vegan? never is to harsh a term, but it is extremely unlikely. my philosophy is to each their own.
whoever wants to be vegan go for it, but don't try to shove it down my throat, i'd ask for the same respect in return.

[Amantino]

If I was a vegan, I couldn't have had that delicious 360g burger I had today. A life without meat is an empty life.

[Deleted]

Its not the same and no vegan is implying it is. You understand that there's a capacity for mammals and birds for example to feel pain, right?

You understand plants will no doubt have the same thing, right? As will any microorganism. Thanks for backing me up.

[Deleted]

Because I love me some Schnitzel!