Night elves don't have enough resources ... where is their future?

[Combatbutler]

the druids are not part of the night elf government - never have been, they do their own thing - that's why the women rose up to be the warriors, leaders, hunters etc in the days of the vigil when the vast majority of the men were druids or functioning as. After the vigil ended in the 3rd war, Fandral did start playing a role in local matters, but most of them do not. Malfurion co-leads with Tyrande, but the druids do not co-govern with the Priests.. the priests do.

May be not as a whole but that is beside the point, the time in which druids did not directly influenced their society is gone, since the beginning of wow.

And I never once saw a night elven government on the isles. It seemed a bunch of individual communities. Druid, mage, nightborne, ghosts and wardens - there was no central government or governance - each group managed their own affairs and did their business pretty much independent of the other.

Both Tyrande and Malfurion fight with the night elves of the broken Isles, so the night elf government is heavily involved one way or another.

[Mace]

May be not as a whole but that is beside the point, the time in which druids did not directly influenced their society is gone, since the beginning of wow.



Both Tyrande and Malfurion fight with the night elves of the broken Isles, so the night elf government is heavily involved one way or another.

yes, they are involved, but not in a ruling capacity, it's an all hands on deck, the sense i get is they are there as the heads of their orders respectively. The druids are concerned with the Emerald Dream, Azeroth's soul and nature - they've always been part of a neutral body carrying on in the neutral capacity the night elves were during the Long Vigil. I don't see them getting involved in the night elf government affairs - the odd exception like the 2 leaders [Fandral and Malfurion only recently after the events of Storm rage). Remember in classic we had some druids siding with Fandral's vision for the night elf people, but the rest were with Moonglade Leader Remulous and the Cenarion Circle.

The Cenarion Circle carries on what the night elf group use to be prior to the 3rd war and ofc is now no longer a night elf/Cenarian/Ancient/Green Dragon thing which were the races involved, but extends now to the Tauren, Worgen and Trolls who become druids.

The night elf government doesn't control the Val'sharah druids, certainly not the Moonguard, nor the nightborne, nor the Court of Farondis, the Order of the Priestess is the authority over the Wardens as the Wardens are a branch of them - but as you know, they are not set up to serve the night elves, they are set up to contain world threats in the night elves' Long Vigil capacity as World Guardians. The night elves in a post-vigil civilization are no longer that, however groups like the Wardens, the Druids in the Cenarian Circle still carry out their global functions - these aren't night elf governement specific functions.

There society carries this uniqueness about it, borne out of their history, it keeps them interesting, in some of the nightborne speculation topics when we trying to guess how nightborne would function with the night elves if they rejoined them, it was generally agreed that it would be like the highborne, together but not integrated. In a very similar way the Sentinel army and the Druids are not integrated but work together sometimes to overcome threats.

I remember in classic wow, night elf and tauren druid players usually had an agreement and would never fight each other, because of the lore, even in battlegrounds, both sides would often tell newer players what the situation was, this ofc eventually died out as many more started playing who had no sense of the lore, it's not like the game helped them either.

[Mehrunes]

The shoe should fit Mehrunes, try it.

Then kindly point out that supposed fanfic of mine.

So, not taking me out of context for a change aye Mehrune, ... I'm not wrong about night elves and nightborne at all in the context I explained, it's silly to write essays over such nonsense that doesn't matter, right or wrong. I really don't care anymore, arguing over it is retarded ... how relevant is it that nightborne are night elves in this context but not in that? not at all! there aren't going to be any left, and if they were, i very much doubt what I say on it here would matter to any of you, you'd go on having your own opinions which are also irrelevant here - and it's pointless going on about the matter.

The context you explained relies on conflating culture and race, and other similar gems. Example from Elder Scrolls: Imga share (well, imitate) the culture of Altmer (High Elves). Even better, some Khajiit share that culture too and they willingly joined the Aldmeri Dominion led by the aforementioned Altmer. Depending on the positions of the moons at the time of their birth, Khajiit may look like humans with cat tails all the way to being indistinguishable from house cats. And why is that "even better"? Because unlike the Imga, Khajiits share ancestry with the Altmer. Common racial heritage? Similar culture? Ermahgerd, the cat people are totally the same race as the High Elves. And that's ignoring the part where you initially called them Night Elves in both contexts and denied them being a race, and it took people correcting you for you to move the goalposts while flailing around.

It is also pointless to dream about this nonsense too.. making elaborate predictions or trying to guess where the story would go, only to suffer the ire of you people is certainly not worth it to me anymore, it would turn out to be what it turns out to be, it's hardly my invention, why get happy or sad, angry or annoyed? why bother. But just to prove a point.....

Damn, so it's "us people" that are responsible for your mental breakdown right now? Let me address it on the behalf of the lore forum then:

Oh and there's your little corner, go to it now and you can scream doom to your hearts content if it'd make ya feel better. I'm sure everyone cares.

Night elves, night elves, night elves, are SHIIIIIIITE ! at least atm. Loadbearer's analysis does at least expose some plot holes and silliness in the narrative. and argue all you want the lot of you about imaginary numbers of this supposedly huge night elf army floating bout somewhere - they don't have shiite.. but like every race, when blizzard wants too, numbers will just pop out of nowhere, the difference in the night elves case, according to you, they do have the numbers, except they don't ever seem to pop up to do anything. And when they do, they get royally shafted -- maybe that's why the male's walk so funny.

So, either you are all delusional over a fantasy setting that quite plainly shows a different reality to what you're saying - i.e you're talking nonsense out of your arses or the thing you admire is really a pile of shiite - take your pick.

I'm not sure what point this proves actually or why you're even addressing this at me and bundling me with the "lot of you". I haven't made any strong statements about Night Elves one way or another. I did make one about the Tauren, even in similar tone to your TEH SKY IS FALLING!!1! tone each and every post about the Night Elves you made in this thread is full off, and with similar proof, but for some reason that triggered you, because asking you for consistency in your rants is apparently asking too much.

And it looks like the self-awareness is gone (so I'm not really sure if things not matching the reality you see is actually all that bad, let alone delusional). Because you're guilty of just that, but in a different direction. One small group that is on the outskirts on the Night Elven territory and doesn't have strong ties with the rest of them has problem with manpower and you project it on the entire race and conjure up lack of Night Elves, period (i.e. imaginary negative number). Maybe the supply lines are shite, rather plausible on an island during a demonic invasion. Maybe they are first focusing on more important areas. But nah, it's time to flail hands in the air and throw a tantrum.

[Mace]

If they where Horde blizz would at some point come out and say that those losses wheren't that severe at all.
But they are alliance so they will proceed to be beaten down and still survive.

Aside, elves fading away over time is just the trope you put on elves.

agreed, Blizz's elves actually are not a dying breed, but, to be fair it's not looked up for the night elves, not yet anyway. The blood elves and high elves looked pretty much gone till they became a focus in the TBC expansion, then they got revived, it's not entirely stupid to hope similar for the night elves now they have the focus for the first time in WoW. Even though it doesn't look good. Remember in TBC the blood elves were not looking good till the very end, things got worse and worse, we beat Kael'thas, but he comes back and worse the Sunwell Plateau, it looked like the blood elves were on a knife edge, but they got pulled back and we saw them come back stronger.

[ravenmoon]

[MENTION=576692] snip... .

all fantasy, there is no proof of this, and blizzard could easily make this group the exception, where "recovery" for them is not being slaughtered - till the next time blizzard need to make us feel emotional or someone needs to be showcased, but I think they've lost that tag now - oh but we have the nightborne for that now, who'd take their place when they're wiped out ... oh and Mace, they'll be wiped out because blizzard say so. (@Rhlor i can take things literally too you know)

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Let's just be honest here, the sole purpose of the Night elves (and Draenei, come to think of it) is to get slapped around to demonstrate how powerful the baddies are, so the obviously superior other races (Humans and Orcs, apparently some Worgen too in Legion) can swoop in and save the day, it's spectacularly crappy writing, but it's what we're getting since Cataclysm at least (Unless you count the close-to-complete absence of both races in Wrath, that is)

exactly, Blizzard have not shown ANY indication that this will change, even with night elves being the focus, it's 14 years, you don't need to be the focus to at least give a different fate or look to the night elves. Worgen and Forsaken are taking over the towers, I understand it, it makes sense, but it shows you the night elves' weakened position, not some imaginary strong night elves with some mysterious vast army and vast lands.

[darkwarrior42]

Current status is, ultimately, irrelevant. So long as Night Elves remain a player race, it is literally impossible for them to all die off. Worst case scenario, they become a wandering race with no true home of their own, but considering their hold over Teldrassil that's a long way off.

Besides, any or all of the dead wardens could come back in the future. Resurrection, "not-really-dead", Time Travel, Alternate Universe, there's no limit to the number of ways Blizzard can and has brought back dead characters, so don't take anything that happens too seriously. It's all just one plot device away from being completely undone.

[ravenmoon]

you mean the continent that have 4 Horde races fighting the NE solely and controlling more land every Exp ?!

excactly, how anyone could think the night elves control vast swathes of Kalimdor is beyond me. They're on their tree, even darkshore is mostly deserted. Just because they were there in the vigil, doesn't mean they are now. The Cenarian Circle =/= the night elves.

just small note on side
we don't know the population of any race on Azeroth, so we won't know how much recourse they need.

oh, I know we don't see the population of any race, so we have to look at what we get shown and the reports of what happens during the wars, and both the reports and what is shown after the wars show the night elves as really not having much.
and if they have that much as some of you are saying, and they keep losing as badly as they are then they are utterly crap. Either way they are weak. Look at Wolfheart, so called ancient, lived in the forests all her life huntresses are outsmarted, out manoeuvred and beaten by Orcs - ambushed Richard Knaak writes - just not able to cope with big bad scary orc - it's not even that they beat them, it's how they beat them - can't have any respect for those night elves.

blizzard just invents resources when the plot needs it, except for night elves off course, they have to be rescued, or just can't cope

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agreed, Blizz's elves actually are not a dying breed, but, to be fair it's not looked up for the night elves, not yet anyway. The blood elves and high elves looked pretty much gone till they became a focus in the TBC expansion, then they got revived, it's not entirely stupid to hope similar for the night elves now they have the focus for the first time in WoW. Even though it doesn't look good. Remember in TBC the blood elves were not looking good till the very end, things got worse and worse, we beat Kael'thas, but he comes back and worse the Sunwell Plateau, it looked like the blood elves were on a knife edge, but they got pulled back and we saw them come back stronger.

Blood elves? really ?! Blood Elves had A'dal - there was a real sense of new beginnings, and you meet him in Shattrath, level 63/4. Prior to that, blood elves were reclaiming their lands in their opening sequence, we saw how bad ass they were, beating the night elves in both eversong woods and the ghostlands, the night elves, "those rats!" the Magistrix exclaims. The forsaken are there to help, but notice how they are not "rescuing in distress Blood elves", no, it seems they are more there to explain how the blood elves are finding and accepting the horde, because the blood elves handle the brunt of the work. Having already been on the up by reclaiming most of Silvermoon, Eversong woods and Sunstrider Isle - you see them win back the Ghostlands

no, this is not like the blood elf situation, all that stuff about focus is nonsense. I've woken up to smell the music, the night elves are made the weaklings of wow. May I remind you that Malfurion is strong, Illidan will be shown too, but a strong individual, or two does not a great race make. it just means those two are amazing.

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Then kindly point out that supposed fanfic of mine.




The context you explained relies on conflating culture and race, and other similar gems. Example from Elder Scrolls: Imga share (well, imitate) the culture of Altmer (High Elves). Even better, some Khajiit share that culture too and they willingly joined the Aldmeri Dominion led by the aforementioned Altmer. Depending on the positions of the moons at the time of their birth, Khajiit may look like humans with cat tails all the way to being indistinguishable from house cats. And why is that "even better"? Because unlike the Imga, Khajiits share ancestry with the Altmer. Common racial heritage? Similar culture? Ermahgerd, the cat people are totally the same race as the High Elves. And that's ignoring the part where you initially called them Night Elves in both contexts and denied them being a race, and it took people correcting you for you to move the goalposts while flailing around.

i never called them night elves in both contexts, the context you were referring to as race was not the one i was as race, you were talking about race genetically of the faction group - that is what i meant by not night elves factionally .. but if you actually read what i said rather than skimmed over it then popped on to take the piss out of me, you'd see it. You were just interested in having jibes and completely missed the context I was talking in which me like an idiot bothered to waste time on.

anyone can see they are not the same exact race (genetically) as the night elves - I was saying that, they're damn side close though, and imo they're more like the difference between Phillipinos and Chinese than they are between jaguars and cheetahs - but not like blizzard can say. They are still elvs of the night, which also means night elf, and still are culturally night elves too - just a pre-sundering version. Warcraft is neither D&D, nor Elder Scrolls, nor Tolkein, and ofc there are similarities it is its own thing. Mock and twist all you want. Why would it matter to you anyway? what relevance does it hold? Mutated night elves, not night elves but not night elves, who cares, what difference is it going to make to anything in your life or my life? Everyone will see this is arcane night elf culture, everyone will see oh this is Suramar night elf city, everyone looks at them and goes, oh, different looking night elves - they'll look at them like they look at Yaungol or Drakkari, or Earthern, different looking Tauren, Trolls or dwarves like blizzard does every expansion. How technically they're night elves or not is irrelevant.

THey're all going to be destroyed, and their leader and her cronies deserve it for the stupid, coward decision they make. THis is how they are written, hey look, another bunch of crazy highborne - silly vain night elves can't handle losing their comforts - and turn to demons - this is i.e. Azshara like night elves, not Malfurion type. They all go. Good riddance. There is no fantasy night elf recovery @Mace, no nightborne and night elves holding hands laughing over afternoon tea after neatly saving the day, and certainly no bright dawn, this is warcarft, the most depressing fantasy tale where everything always goes to shit all the time. Illidan and his demon hunters will probably make Suramar their base, or what's left of it - and you don't think blizzard can destroy a city they build?

Let's look at past occasions, remember Dalaran? it went in WC3. Stormwind in WC1, Lordaeron in WC3 as well as Silvermoon - but all these came back in some form or the other to their races original control, but not for a long time, and we all thought they were gone - why back? because blizzard run out of material to destroy, so they have to bring back old stuff - WoW is a new game, you will see all the things from their WC1-3 lore come to life, including the pre-history. You saw the pre-history of the Orcs come to live in WoD did you not, now you see the pre-sundering night elves come to life in Legion as the nightborne.

What's happened to Draenor? Blizzard designed an entire planet... and look, it's not even in our universe - yeah it's not like we go back and forth between AU Draenor and our Azeroth and the Draenei and Orcs can get resupplied, get new homes - places to visit etc.. no, that was an entire planet - you don't think they'll destroy a city? the more beautiful it is the more emotional the drama when they crush it, and boy blizzard loves to crush things. You see Alex Afrisiabi? He's now in charge and he's stamping his authority on everything, he's going the Chris Metzen route - twist and smash - except he is going to make his more savage and brutal. So yeah, you're going to be sucked in to feeling sorry for the nightborne, then BOOM gone, and you're going to feel good they're gone too

Damn, so it's "us people" that are responsible for your mental breakdown right now? Let me address it on the behalf of the lore forum then:

I'm not sure what point this proves actually or why you're even addressing this at me and bundling me with the "lot of you".

The point that proved is that it's all pointless, meaningless, it means bugger all, blizzard want emotional investment in something that's not worth it and I have obliged for too long. The "ranting" is the point. oh and Mehrunes, what goes around comes around.

I haven't made any strong statements about Night Elves one way or another. I did make one about the Tauren, even in similar tone to your TEH SKY IS FALLING!!1! tone each and every post about the Night Elves you made in this thread is full off, and with similar proof, but for some reason that triggered you, because asking you for consistency in your rants is apparently asking too much.

no you just make snide remarks, and mock people. Set yourself up as someone who makes a lot of sense by making up errors about the things people say when you deliberately take them out of context. Why bother to have these discussions as @Saafe points out to me, when we have the likes of you waltzing in with your clever wit and putting us crazy delusional loons in our place with our wild and extravagant claims which you can't be bothered to read fairly because you think so highly of your own opinion and once you think you've sussed a person out, to hell what they write, if you don't like the sound, oh lets not try to understand what they are saying, lets put them straight, put them in their shoes.

Well you're very witty and clever, and I'm sure the forum appreciates your interesting discussions, imagination and flare, your incredible insights and contributions in the perpetuating of their most loved fantasy. It's not like you just jump on line to pick faults at everything anyone says, without once trying to see where they are coming from.. instead of coming in all condescending and the like. Makes it a fun place to be right.

And it looks like the self-awareness is gone (so I'm not really sure if things not matching the reality you see is actually all that bad, let alone delusional). Because you're guilty of just that, but in a different direction. One small group that is on the outskirts on the Night Elven territory and doesn't have strong ties with the rest of them has problem with manpower and you project it on the entire race and conjure up lack of Night Elves, period (i.e. imaginary negative number). Maybe the supply lines are shite, rather plausible on an island during a demonic invasion. Maybe they are first focusing on more important areas. But nah, it's time to flail hands in the air and throw a tantrum.

yes, I have gone a little over the top, but such is the forum @Mace yes this not how I usually am, I'm a bit more optimistic.

I'm not conjuring anything, i'm taking what we are shown and putting it very bluntly, no delicate language and hopeful tones intermixed, it is what it is. This is what the facts are showing, what the game is showing, are you denying it? what am I projecting on the entire race? the resources they clearly don't have. My language usage is sounding emo, but hey, it is what it is. Night elves are shiite.

And that's where they are in the lore atm, a group on the brink, that aren't doing or being anything remarkable. There remarkableness was in their past and they've shown no signs of returning there.

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Current status is, ultimately, irrelevant. So long as Night Elves remain a player race, it is literally impossible for them to all die off. Worst case scenario, they become a wandering race with no true home of their own, but considering their hold over Teldrassil that's a long way off.

Besides, any or all of the dead wardens could come back in the future. Resurrection, "not-really-dead", Time Travel, Alternate Universe, there's no limit to the number of ways Blizzard can and has brought back dead characters, so don't take anything that happens too seriously. It's all just one plot device away from being completely undone.

showing the point that @mysticx and especially @Sam_The_Wiser said.

I honestly wish the people at Blizzard still had the same passion the OP had for their story. Yeah the OP is a bit nutty but the lore is complete dog shit. Reading his posts are way more interesting than the shit we get now.

Thanks fella. Yes, I admit this has been on the nuttier side from me.

Blizzard tried so very hard to make the night elves "balanced" in the lore when they kicked off WoW, they stripped them down, they were balancing the lore like they were balancing classes, by the time we reach to TBC, when they realise they don't have to in the lore, well, night elves still stuck right. But silly me, i'm making excuses for blizzard, trying to explain the shittiness. They are that way because blizzard wants them that way, end of story. Whether they do something good with that or crap with that, up to them, it's just silly for me to waste time guessing or imagining, and for that I thank the naysayers, who love coming on the forums and love picking faults with everything people say, they've exhausted me and made me realize, you know what, this isn't worth the time, they'll do whatever they do - you'd either like it or not, and it will go on. This game's days of a good story are gone, it's all about how fun the game is to play. and that should be our focus, the story is just there to give some sort of framework.

Stupid of me trying to bring it life by imagining things in a more realistic setting despite the incredible limitations of not knowing how much of anything is about.

[CaptainV]

OP, the Night Elf race basically have the entirety of Ashenvale which they drove the Horde out of, and due to a truce signed between the two factions the Goblins were permitted Azshara and the Elves kept Ashenvale.

In addition to that entire forest, they have Darkshore, Felwood is healing and it is "mostly" NE territory as is most of Northern Kalimdor.

I dont know "where" your getting your facts from but the NE's being a doomed people is entirley farcehood.

If any race is doomed, id look more to the Tauren, who basically at this rate are being overlapped by sub-races as the main one is virtually a minority.

[ravenmoon]

Way to jump off on a typo. It must be rough being so angry over little things while also worrying about your tin foil hat theories of a made up race. Time for a coke and a smile buddy or a bottle and a nap whatever is more age appropriate for you.

While you are going on a nonsensical rant about nothing you should toss in how many people die each year from skin cancer based on the tan typo. Even better spin both and blame me for all of it.

you Sir, have my sincere apologies, Tyvren, you did not deserve this, it's what a lot of jack asses do on here, and I followed in their footsteps .. now I understand them a bit more, they're just very unhappy people, angry and self centred and like taking it out on others. That's exactly what I did in an emotionally annoyed moment, and I pray God it won't happen again -- I abandoned such behaviour at 10/11, choosing a more upbeat disposition which has served me well into adulthood, save for very rare outbursts.

[Zulkhan]

Well, I think the one in Feralas is pretty big, at least as far as WoW goes. It's even Night Elven army! Though I don't recall it ever doing anything.

just imagine some 10k troops somewhere

Speaking of 10k (since they had such numbers canonically) the Iron Horde had its moment too, during the introductive experience in Tanaan. Just before firing the Worldbreaker against the Dark Portal, you have hundreds of orcs spawning from the same 2-3 huts. Had no idea orcs were that good at conjuring.

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you Sir, have my sincere apologies, Tyvren, you did not deserve this, it's what a lot of jack asses do on here, and I followed in their footsteps .. now I understand them a bit more, they're just very unhappy people, angry and self centred and like taking it out on others. That's exactly what I did in an emotionally annoyed moment, and I pray God it won't happen again -- I abandoned such behaviour at 10/11, choosing a more upbeat disposition which has served me well into adulthood, save for very rare outbursts.

Stop blaming us for your own poor behavior. If you can't handle a slight degree of irony without triggering an hurt-feelings-syndrome then the issue is all on you.

The premise of this thread is utterly misguided and multiple posters pointed that out. Better now?

[ravenmoon]

OP, the Night Elf race basically have the entirety of Ashenvale which they drove the Horde out of, and due to a truce signed between the two factions the Goblins were permitted Azshara and the Elves kept Ashenvale.

In addition to that entire forest, they have Darkshore, Felwood is healing and it is "mostly" NE territory as is most of Northern Kalimdor.

I dont know "where" your getting your facts from but the NE's being a doomed people is entirley farcehood.

If any race is doomed, id look more to the Tauren, who basically at this rate are being overlapped by sub-races as the main one is virtually a minority.

correct me in this, (cos I may be wrong here) isn't it just military action and further incursion that's stopped in Ashenvale? an end to deforestation for now - aren't the likes of Splintertree post, Zoram Base and others still there , still occupied.

They do not control the entire forest. They have the ruined Darkshore yes, but Felwood is Cenarion Circle and northern Kalimdor too. PErhaps if they became a faction again, but I think blizzard intentionally separated them, the night elves got Teldrassil and darkshore, but the neutral bunch hosting the druids, became the Cenarion Circle body that also added Tauren, then Worgen and trolls in addition to the Cenarians, and Ancients

[Rhlor]

The shoe should fit Mehrunes, try it.

So, not taking me out of context for a change aye Mehrune, ... I'm not wrong about night elves and nightborne at all in the context I explained, it's silly to write essays over such nonsense that doesn't matter, right or wrong. I really don't care anymore, arguing over it is retarded ... how relevant is it that nightborne are night elves in this context but not in that? not at all! there aren't going to be any left, and if they were, i very much doubt what I say on it here would matter to any of you, you'd go on having your own opinions which are also irrelevant here - and it's pointless going on about the matter.

It is also pointless to dream about this nonsense too.. making elaborate predictions or trying to guess where the story would go, only to suffer the ire of you people is certainly not worth it to me anymore, it would turn out to be what it turns out to be, it's hardly my invention, why get happy or sad, angry or annoyed? why bother. But just to prove a point.....

Night elves, night elves, night elves, are SHIIIIIIITE ! at least atm. Loadbearer's analysis does at least expose some plot holes and silliness in the narrative. and argue all you want the lot of you about imaginary numbers of this supposedly huge night elf army floating bout somewhere - they don't have shiite.. but like every race, when blizzard wants too, numbers will just pop out of nowhere, the difference in the night elves case, according to you, they do have the numbers, except they don't ever seem to pop up to do anything. And when they do, they get royally shafted -- maybe that's why the male's walk so funny.

So, either you are all delusional over a fantasy setting that quite plainly shows a different reality to what you're saying - i.e you're talking nonsense out of your arses or the thing you admire is really a pile of shiite - take your pick.

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It would - but the way they're shown to respond? it's rubbish! they look rubbish and easily tossed aside, it doesn't take the brunt of the horde army to devastate their Azshara campaign - just takes a smart blood elf, then a goblin bomb in Stonetalon mountain, and man, one orc on the back of riding Kodo in Ashenvale - single shots an ambush of Elves down. Takes 2 blood elves to rout an entire base in Desolace. And ofc in wolfheart, Varian and the worgen need to rescue the night elves from the big scary Magnataur.

The race has been shown to be rubbish in wow. Are you now making excuses for them? They're CRAP ! I'm done making excuses for them, they don't get anything good in wow, they don't do anything amazing either, they just suck more and more and more.

and for those of you pointing out the Broken Shore night elves are the ones under siege, you are correct in that, but the Kalimdor night elves are there with them, and where are their amazing multi-army forces? Sitting back? gosh, you're either being idiotic to think so or blizzard are incompetent, because you mean to tell me THE Burning Legion, that has SHAFTED the night elves - broke their "super fantastic" (sarcasm) empire that causes them to look their nose down at every other race on Azeroth, murdered their kin, destroyed, the burning legion who they gave up their precious arcane magic to protect the world against (noble, but foolish), whom they sacrificed rebuilding their civilization to watch (vigil) for, not just for a few years, for 10,000 years, on who's return, they lose the majority of their people and their wisp spirits, lose their immortality, lose the shield benefits Nordrassil had given them in place of the arcane benefits they had lost the last invasion.. the legion that goes straight for them all the time.. you mean to tell me, the source of all their woes are back, and you feel they're holding some mysterious large force back from the broken isles and letting the night elves there take the brunt of it. That's the most moronic thing I've heard.

They've got no army dudes, they are so few of them, they are piss poor atm. Oh poor desperate under siege elves

And as for the nightborne portion, who should have been providing the reinforcements, after all that the Legion has done to their people, the reason for this predicament in the first place, that's caused the issue they face with becoming Withered, that wench Elisande thinks she is protecting her people, by signing over to THAT Legion? Join that kind of evil to save your own skin? let everyone else die because you've given into despair and it is better to survive being partner to THAT sort of evil? really! She and all her traitorous nightborne need to go! For such cowardice you forfeit your place to those better than you. She is stubbornly defiant in her choice till the last. Her great heroics in the first war undone by the cowardice and despair she returns too...a leader should know better, that leader should know better.

So what's new, night elves going bad, join the queue Elisande, Cordana Felsong says hi, Fandral Staghelm is waving, Xavius grinning, Queen Azshara is laughing. When night elves go bad the whole world quakes and is brought to the brink, but when they are good what benefit do they bring? Where is the high civilization, the restored cities and forests? Where is the shepherding and teaching or leading of the so called younger races? Instead you just hide in your forests... as noble as task of vigil was, it was utterly un-necessary wasn't it. At least to give up magic ... all they did was stop themselves from being the ones to summon the legion, staying in their forest, convinced they were the only ones who could possibly pose a threat - they failed, and they paid the price for that hubris. No more immortality for you - now time to just fade into the shadows and DIE !! ------- enjoyed my pickings?

it's all a pile of garbage.

I repeat the problem is leadership and mentality, their leaders are people tied to ancient traditions obsolete. the night elves have the population and the resources to be a fearsome force, but they know how to use those resources.
Illidan should be the leader of the night elves or at least be one of the most important leaders, illidan have the skills to make th enight elves grat again

[ravenmoon]

Stop blaming us for your own poor behavior. If you can't handle a slight degree of irony without triggering an hurt-feelings-syndrome then the issue is all on you.

The premise of this thread is utterly misguided and multiple posters pointed that out. Better now?

Poor behaviour? that's rich coming from you. How kind of you to be concerned about my feelings.

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I repeat the problem is leadership and mentality, their leaders are people tied to ancient traditions obsolete. the night elves have the population and the resources to be a fearsome force, but they know how to use those resources.
Illidan should be the leader of the night elves or at least be one of the most important leaders, illidan have the skills to make th enight elves grat again

Neither Illidan, nor Thalyssra and the Nightborne, Suramar, highborne, Malfurion, Elune are going to make the night elves great again, the night elves are not going to be great again. Blizzards role for them in this game is "has beens" - if that weren't the case they'd have written something far more upbeat about them.

they introduce things in the story to just show how terrible they are. Look at the nightborne - wasted, written to give in to the legion after 10k years of outstanding living, but that was the same with the night elf story in Azshara's day, you know thousands of years of Utopia then she goes all loopy and courts the demons and it's all gone. they're just showing you that again. Night elves are there for showing you how not to do it.

Heroes like Malfurion and Illidan keep most of us deluded into thinking it might get better one day, but if you notice they are always 1-man shows, the exception in a very un-exceptional people. I formerly use to be one such fool in my thinking on the matter, ever the optimist, the likes of Zulkan and co, even though they just delight in being nasty and mocking, always saw the truth of this. WoW is not written for optimism and hopeful or bright endings. Comics and books are written to set up disaster, games introduce you at place where you're at rock bottom so you have motivation to kill a baddy.

That's it, all the recovery and bright stuff - it happens nowhere - that's right, if races recover they just pop up with new bases, new abilities to fuel the dark plot of destruction and death and whatever horror is magnified before you, as more of x race are slaughtered and killed. They could spare a little time for good things you know, show it, see the effects.. but do they show you ruins being rebuilt? or groups recovering? Yay the sunwell got fixed, have they shown you the wonders being done with it? all the good that is happening? No, it's just more mayham and carnage.

Now my eyes are opened, there is no help coming for the night elves, no recovery, it's not their MO, at least not for that race, and you're just wasting your time thinking it is. And i'm not exaggerating their poor state. You all have followed what has happened, the night elves don't have no super army or magic numbers, not once have you seen them in force since WC3, they are always short, always struggling, always need help, and they don't perform well when other races like ORcs or Blood elves meet up with them - this is their reality.. that is what it is, i don't know what more some of you want me to say.. go back to defending and making excuses for why they don't do this or that.... argue endlessly with zulkhan or combat that highborne are amazing and the night elves just didn't have their best in Azshara that's why 1 blood elf could rout them all, or they're just so amazing to hold out against the horde in Ashenvale given their army was busy.. ? yes i use to say things like that, what a whole load of cack! what army - if you had an army you'd leave your people to die? lol they had no army. Highborne aren't any thing special, just outdated has been magicians, who get humiliated in Azshara, and don't make any meaningful contribution - all what 20 of them - couldn't even hold onto their own city. And now lets fast forward to the new night elf group, the Suramar ones who've been living in their city advancing in high magic blah blah. At the first sign of real challenge, their leader just throws in the towel to the legion - that same person was amazing 10k years ago, again - glory days in the past, and what of the present? useless, or spineless & backstabbing if you read the comic. Even a Warden betrays her own kind. This is their story, doom and gloom.

#for all it's wonder, no wonder its movie tanked in the US.. it was cool for the 90s when we children and growing up, and the world was peaceful and bright, entertainment was the only way to scare people, now the world is freaking scary, to go into a movie and see more killing and darkness its just too depressing - i mean, you release a movie when your country is rocked by the very real results of violence when an Islamist terrorist shoots up a bar full of innocents because he can't deal with his issues, and then you keep releasing doom and gloom and expect people to want to go see it.

[Mehrunes]

Speaking of 10k (since they had such numbers canonically) the Iron Horde had its moment too, during the introductive experience in Tanaan. Just before firing the Worldbreaker against the Dark Portal, you have hundreds of orcs spawning from the same 2-3 huts. Had no idea orcs were that good at conjuring.

Ah, yeah, I suppose. I was thinking more along the lines of armies in formation and stuff. Well, if you include mobs spread around a bit then there are few examples now that I think of it. Depends how large area you count. But, for example, the place where Illidari Blood Elves were dealing with Giants of Outland in Shadowmoon was rather small and yet was packed with Blood Elves. Then there are some raids, etc. (especially encounters where you get zerged by weak shite). And on topic of Iron Horde, prior to the Worldbreaker there's Kargath's arena with over 100 Orcs.

Stop blaming us for your own poor behavior. If you can't handle a slight degree of irony without triggering an hurt-feelings-syndrome then the issue is all on you.

The premise of this thread is utterly misguided and multiple posters pointed that out. Better now?

Speaking of being good at conjuring, you totally did conjure ravenmoon's behavior. But now they saw the nihilistic truth of WoW and grew beyond the constraints of mortals like Zulkan and co. Fear their wrath.

[Enthralled]

No, WoW is not written for optimism. It is a dark and depressing videogame at its heart.

Did that realization really set you off on 5+ pages off wild ranting about the end of a fictional player race in this game?

[ravenmoon]

No, WoW is not written for optimism. It is a dark and depressing videogame at its heart.

Did that realization really set you off on 5+ pages off wild ranting about the end of a fictional player race in this game?

Yes Sir, it did.

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Speaking of being good at conjuring, you totally did conjure ravenmoon's behavior. But now they saw the nihilistic truth of WoW and grew beyond the constraints of mortals like Zulkan and co. Fear their wrath.

Flattery won't get you anywhere

[Enthralled]

Yes Sir, it did.

Well i hope you feel better now. I feel like i need an early drink after reading through it.

[Thage]

The Wardens not having the resources to hold their towers on a demon-infested landmass after the hits they've taken since Warcraft 3 has nothing to do with the night elves' overall resources. The night elves have spent the better part of the last decade in-lore constantly dealing with orcish encroachment and fighting off other threats from the Emerald Nightmare and Burning Legion. They also have quite a bit of territory still under their control: Teldrassil, Darkshore, Ashenvale, Feralas, and Mt. Hyjal are all held by the night elves or night elf-affiliated factions. According to novels and NPC chatter set post-Cataclysm, the night elves seem to be flourishing in the Alliance.

[Zulkhan]

Poor behaviour? that's rich coming from you. How kind of you to be concerned about my feelings.

You're treading a ground you're clearly unfamiliar with. I don't know what's going on in your existence but it's concerning that you're suddenly feeling the necessity to poorly imitate someone's attitude expecting who knows what. And it's indeed rich coming from me, that's why some people shown to be rather baffled by your behavior specifically, yet blamed the extents of such behavior to the people who apparently "forced you" to behave that way, even though no one complained in the same way about all these "people". But what's even better is your sermon about "optimism", the peak of all ironies since this thread is all about N posters refuting your overly-catastrophic theories. And yet we're the nasty, cynical bastards thinking this world shall burn. Cherry on the top, you even dragged the Warcraft movie into this, even though said movie is nothing terribly bleak at all. Can't imagine your reaction if they would have actually followed the lore 1:1.

For the rest, I would love to politely argue with you but I know there's little point in doing that, especially if you have to address every single minimal answer with an essay, I just can't keep up with that.

Ah, yeah, I suppose. I was thinking more along the lines of armies in formation and stuff. Well, if you include mobs spread around a bit then there are few examples now that I think of it. Depends how large area you count. But, for example, the place where Illidari Blood Elves were dealing with Giants of Outland in Shadowmoon was rather small and yet was packed with Blood Elves. Then there are some raids, etc. (especially encounters where you get zerged by weak shite). And on topic of Iron Horde, prior to the Worldbreaker there's Kargath's arena with over 100 Orcs.

These are good examples but I saw the one in Tanaan as particularly impressive. Maybe is the fact that I saw the whole thing occurring from the height of the Worldbreaker.

But yeah, the one seen in Feralas is the closest resemblance of an actual army in formation we have in WoW.

Speaking of being good at conjuring, you totally did conjure ravenmoon's behavior. But now they saw the nihilistic truth of WoW and grew beyond the constraints of mortals like Zulkan and co. Fear their wrath.

I die inside every time I read it.

[ravenmoon]

Well i hope you feel better now. I feel like i need an early drink after reading through it.

yes, i think i shall have one too.