Terrorist attack in Nice France

[Forogil]

They can get to Greece. Which is Europe.

They not interested in staying in Greece - nor about getting to the parts of Turkey in Europe. The camps in Greece, the closed border north of Greece (and deal with Turkey), explains why the flow of asylum seekers to Greece and then further north has (practically) stopped. It's not the rest of Europe has woken up and actually began preparing for more refugees - it's that the plans to stop refugees are in place and working.

The question is what this has to do with terrorist attack in Nice, France. Nothing at the moment, but the question is whether integration will work better this time, or if there will be further attacks in the future - perhaps 5-15 years in the future, once they are somewhat integrated - but hitting a rough spot.

[Deleted]

And how do you do that, without making blanket statements like "No muslims allowed?"

Are we going to marginalize one billion people out of the fear of a small, yet violent, minority?

Well you could start by not allowing those that comes from areas that are infected by the wahhabism school of thought. Not allowing funding for mosques built to come from organisations that support it.
Same as you could ban people that support other terror-groups or ideologies that are inherently anti democratic and foul.

That said, i agree that you can't just ban everone because they happened to be born a muslim.

[Runenwächter]

Regarding solutions: Let me introduce you to some magic concept. If you refuse someone who is being a beligerant idiot taking advantage of your kindness "solidarity" they are more likely to think for themselves. Case in point: Switzerland.
Switzerland is turning away and sending back illegal migrants at their borders, leading to north Italian holiday resorts being crowded. Italian government tries to appeal to "solidarity", Switzerland is having non of that. What can Italy do to change Switzerlands mind? Very simple. Fuck all. What can Italy do to improve the situation on its own side of the border? A lot. It all comes down to closing borders in a semi-permeable state from north to south, at least temporarily.

Once Italy (and the others like France, Greece, etc) take control of its southern borders and the situation becomes bearable again for their northern neighbors, things can go back to how they were before.

Does border control work? Yes it fucking does. Slowenia, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria can do it if they want and they wanted to.
Does it work 100% of the time? No. But it comes close enough and that is not and never was the point of rational discussion.
Do they have favela like migrant camps inside their own country now? No.
Does not accepting migrants and not extending social services to them lead to crime rising through the roof in their country? Do illegals disappear and is mexican-border quasi slave labor on the rise? And all the other hogwash Pro-Migrant folks claim would totaly happen? No it fucking isnt.

Border control works as long as you want it to. Wether you want to to or not is a political choice.

Do you know where the shit you talk about is happening? In countries that DONT fortify their borders, that dont take action to control their teritorial waters. Greece for example.

Shut down border. Dont let people in. Do not extend services to them. Do not let them settle. Chase away political activists and use the full force of the law against any and all seeking to sabotage effective government control of sovereign territory.
If they try to break through fortified borders and clearly distinguishable borders, when no apparent immediate threat for their lives exists, when they are in a safe country, do not let any pass, by any means necessary. You dont have to treat vicious violent criminal adults caught in the act like children that cant do no harm.

[Orange Joe]

To those that want to ban Muslims. How do you ban a religion follower? Muslims can be white/black/brown/yellow, and so on.

Or do you mean to say you want to ban anyone of middle eastern descent?

[Theinquisition]

Not yet. lol

better get on that son.

[Deleted]

Well you could start by not allowing those that comes from areas that are infected by the wahhabism school of thought. Not allowing funding for mosques built to come from organisations that support it.
Same as you could ban people that support other terror-groups or ideologies that are inherently anti democratic and foul.

That said, i agree that you can't just ban everone because they happened to be born a muslim.

Wahhabism school of thought? That's weird. So anyone but Saudi Arabia and Qatar?

[Theinquisition]

And how do you do that, without making blanket statements like "No muslims allowed?"

Are we going to marginalize one billion people out of the fear of a small, yet violent, minority?

if I had to bar 1000 people from entering the nation to protect against the 1 who has bad intentions...absolutely.

We can parley with Islamic nations and foster commerce, but I see no reason that we are OBLIGATED to allow immigration from nations who have a culture that is so different from ours in the most basic ways I.E. human rights.

[Deleted]

Regarding solutions: Let me introduce you to some magic concept. If you refuse someone who is being a beligerant idiot taking advantage of your kindness "solidarity" they are more likely to think for themselves. Case in point: Switzerland.
Switzerland is turning away and sending back illegal migrants at their borders, leading to north Italian holiday resorts being crowded. Italian government tries to appeal to "solidarity", Switzerland is having non of that. What can Italy do to change Switzerlands mind? Very simple. Fuck all. What can Italy do to improve the situation on its own side of the border? A lot. It all comes down to closing borders in a semi-permeable state from north to south, at least temporarily.

Once Italy (and the others like France, Greece, etc) take control of its southern borders and the situation becomes bearable again for their northern neighbors, things can go back to how they were before.

Does border control work? Yes it fucking does. Slowenia, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria can do it if they want and they wanted to.
Does it work 100% of the time? No. But it comes close enough and that is not and never was the point of rational discussion.
Do they have favela like migrant camps inside their own country now? No.
Does not accepting migrants and not extending social services to them lead to crime rising through the roof in their country? Do illegals disappear and is mexican-border quasi slave labor on the rise? And all the other hogwash Pro-Migrant folks claim would totaly happen? No it fucking isnt.

Border control works as long as you want it to. Wether you want to to or not is a political choice.

Shut down border. Dont let people in. Do not extend services to them. Do not let them settle.
If they try to break through fortified borders and clearly distinguishable borders, when no apparent immediate threat for their lives exists, when they are in a safe country, do not let any pass, by any means necessary. You dont have to treat vicious violent criminal adults caught in the act like children that cant do no harm.

Once again, your WHOLE POINT revolves around sealing a border and that simply CANNOT BE DONE IN SOUTHERN EUROPE.

[Army Dreamer]

To those that want to ban Muslims. How do you ban a religion follower? Muslims can be white/black/brown/yellow, and so on.

Or do you mean to say you want to ban anyone of middle eastern descent?

How do you ban a terror organization? Same way.

[Orange Joe]

How do you ban a terror organization? Same way.

You ban it in name only. Unless you have the names of every member of said organization.

[Runenwächter]

Once again, your WHOLE POINT revolves around sealing a border and that simply CANNOT BE DONE IN SOUTHERN EUROPE.

Yes it can. No matter how much you deny it, it can be done. Its not stealthcoated speedboats with hulk hogan and a talking supercomputer thats comming, its overcrowded nutshells at the speed of a paraplegic grandma. You want it done, you get it done. No amount of capslock is going to change that.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

I can't fathom how idiotic some hastag has been on Twitter. #NiceAttack? What the hell is that! #JeSuisNice, which translate to I am nice in french (because nice is being used profuselly in france, even though it's english) is just as ridiculous.

At least if you're going to morally support a city, make sure you're not spelling stupidities :/

[Army Dreamer]

You ban it in name only. Unless you have the names of every member of said organization.

So... no hope? Damn.

[Orange Joe]

So... no hope? Damn.

I mean if they were coming to do harm, while a ban was in effect. Do you think they would open admit to being Muslim?

[Deleted]

Wahhabism school of thought? That's weird. So anyone but Saudi Arabia and Qatar?

Not really. Currently they are funding some mosques in Sweden, sending speakers who have studied in their schools and so on.
Just this year the government seems to have opened their eyes a bit and understood that not all types of Islam is equal even though there been reports from Muslim groups over the years warning about what's going on.

[Deleted]

They not interested in staying in Greece - nor about getting to the parts of Turkey in Europe. The camps in Greece, the closed border north of Greece (and deal with Turkey), explains why the flow of asylum seekers to Greece and then further north has (practically) stopped. It's not the rest of Europe has woken up and actually began preparing for more refugees - it's that the plans to stop refugees are in place and working.

The question is what this has to do with terrorist attack in Nice, France. Nothing at the moment, but the question is whether integration will work better this time, or if there will be further attacks in the future - perhaps 5-15 years in the future, once they are somewhat integrated - but hitting a rough spot.

I'm not even considering what they want. They can get inside Europe, which means they get protected by our laws and theyre basically our problem.

This has nothing to do with nice.
But you can't prevent migration patterns of this size because there might be issues in the future. It doesnt work like that.

- - - Updated - - -

Not really. Currently they are funding some mosques in Sweden, sending speakers who have studied in their schools and so on.

Yes and its dangerous. It's also infuriating cause we the west are blindly supporting those guys.

Wahhabism is spreading around but its mainly in these two countries.

[Forogil]

I'm not even considering what they want. They can get inside Europe, which means they get protected by our laws and theyre basically our problem.

I see that you use your ignorance as a badge of honor. Some of us try to understand others - their needs, their desires, their dreams; and thus we see that no-one desperately wants to get to a refugee camp in Greece or Italy - that's why the migrant flow has stopped.

Similarly we understand that life can be rough sometimes, and people react to that: some start drinking, some redeem themselves, and some think that they can redeem themselves by becoming a martyr - and see that as a possible explanation for Nice (obviously together with a number of other reasons; and remember that understanding don't mean excusing).

This has nothing to do with nice.
But you can't prevent migration patterns of this size because there might be issues in the future. It doesnt work like that.

You can prevent migration patterns of this size, as is demonstrated by the actual facts this year; and it will shape the future. I gave a (possible) consequence not the reason for the decision.

[Slant]

Only now? During the Paris attack they were more concerned about losing press time to the event than showing their respects to the victims.

Yeah, I remember that shit... despicable.

[Deleted]

This is weird. This guy really had nothing to do with religion apparently.

As France tries to come to terms with the horror of Thursday night’s events in Nice which saw 84 people killed, including at least 10 children, investigators are still focusing on what pushed Mohamed Bouhlel to drive a 20-ton truck into crowds of Bastille Day revellers.

Police continue to search the 31-year-old Franco-Tunisian’s home in Nice for clues and French interior minister Bernard Cazeneuve has said evidence suggests that the killer had been ‘‘radicalised very quickly,’‘

But some of Bouchlel’s neighbours remain sceptical.

“All I know is that this man has nothing to do with Islamists, with Al Qaeda, Daesh (ISIL), and all of that – he has nothing to do with it. He’s someone who drinks, smokes, steals, eats, works. He is separated from his wife. He lives alone in this neighbourhood. He’s always be on a bicycle, he goes to the beach like everyone else. He smokes hashish, he smoked hash. He stole bicycles.”

In Tunisia, in Bouhlel’s hometown M’saken, relatives, including the 31-year-old’s brother, expressed profound shock verging on denial over the attack in Nice.

“Mohamed had a job, he’s been married to my cousin for nine years, he went to France to work as a driver, he has two daughters and a son. He never told me that he’d do such a thing, our family still can’t believe what’s happened,” Jaber Bouhlel said.

Bouhlel’s father has said his son underwent psychiatric treatment in the past but has insisted he showed no jihadist tendencies, only self-destructive ones.

This might just have been a case of the guy gone bonkers.

[Runenwächter]

Stop that Taqyyia bullshit.

A Muslim involved in Jihad are allowed to drink alcohol and eat prok. Plenty of the young radicals, both those involved in terrorist attacks and those that are just petty criminals use this as either a legitimate tool of deception or a petty excuse to live the lavish lifestyle of the west, all the while denying any moral responsibility for taking part in it. Thus, him eating pork has no bearing on the matter and says nothing about him being a "real" muslim or not.

So, yeah, it "might have been" a guy gone bonkers. Might have been body snatchers. Just as likely.

98% of the people in Tunisia are muslim, thus the ONLY zero hypothesis is that he was muslim. If you have contradicting evidence lets hear it.

One does not have to be a devout muslim or attend mosque regularly to participate in terrorism or Jihadism. To believe otherwise is very simplistic.
Lets also not forget how truthfull and open about the character of their flock these communities have been in the past. Fuck all is how.

To say that mental illness and a terrorist connection are mutually exclusive is about as asinine and stupid as to assume that one cant exist without the other. How exactly is his mental health an argument for or against any such connection? It isnt. Bringing it up is relevant to his movities but has no bearing on wether his actions and the following is very important, in the very moment he commited the killings were in any shape or form influenced, led or controlled by jihadist religious and or political motives.
The father of the perpetrator is not a credible source for a myriad of reasons.

Lets sum up what we can assume safely:

1.) He was born muslim, but apparently didnt follow the rules of his faith very closely.
2.) He was a convicted fellon with a strong inclination for violence and allegedly had mental health issues.

These two points are safe assumptions, unlikely to change in the future.

3.) While ISIS has claimed responsibility for the attack and the makeup and nature of the even speak for a terror attack, as of yet (a mere day after the attacks) no government agency has given us confirmation of such a link.

This assumption is not safe and may very likely change in the near future when there is more information released. Assuming such information to be available right now is not logical. Such information is usually released later as to not impede ongoing manhunts and investigations. For the moment the makeup of the attack and recent history of such events make a jihadist terror attack the most likely possibility.