Hillary pledges to overturn citizens united

[Grummgug]

You pro-CFR types don't seem to understand that the goal of CFR is impossible. You cannot ban money from politics.

Let's walk this through.

1. You ban the ability of the Koch Brothers to campaign for and against issues they want.
2. The Koch Brothers now have a hole burning their pocket for political activism and cannot buy ads.
3. The Koch Brothers team together with other wealthy conservatives and outright BUY Major TV networks and movie houses, cable networks, and distributors because of the ban.
4. Now they introduce new TV and movie programming that contain right-wing messages. The night news programs are all slanted heavily to the right.
5. These run all year long. Even in your ban window.

What's your move now? Are you going to force them to shut down TV networks, the movie theatres, and the internet 60 days before an election too?

I don't think you understand that people like the Koch brothers are being NICE. They COULD go out and do this NOW. But they don't, because they are allowed to use money to buy ads. But if you actually take their ability away to do that, they will just buy CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, AMC theaters, Regal cinemas, Paramount, Disney, etc.

Its a REALLY good thing Citizens United was ruled the way it was or this would've happened already.

[zorkuus]

But she needs 2 terms to do it. Oh and if it doesn't happen it isn't because she doesn't care, it's because the evil people stopped her.

That's still possible though no matter one's opinion on the issue. A president does not have absolute power.

[Sargerasraider]

A group of people does have a right to speech. A corporation is not simply a "group of people". If a group of people owe someone $50,000, they are responsible for paying that debt back. If a group of people commit fraud, they may go to prison. However, a corporation is a distinct legal entity, whose actions and responsibilities are distinct from the people who own it.

Let's say I create a group called Citizens Connected and I do not incorporate it.

I get friends and other like minded individuals to give me money. We make a few political ads and run them on TV. Should this be legal?

I'm trying to figure out whether you are against current law for corporate protections, or whether you are against the actual meat of the discussion in the Citizens United ruling. (Again, the SCOTUS ruled that it was unconstitutional to restrict a nonprofit from running an anti-Hillary movie within a specified time prior to a primary election).

[NineSpine]

You need 75%. This has passed in merely 5 states, all of which are very much on the left side of the aisle. If you ever had a chance of getting Republicans to pass this, it died with the emergence of the Tea Party, or when Hillary put her name on it.

It has passed Republican bodies already.

I know of 9 people in black that disagree, and it's their judgment to make, not ours.

Citizens United was a 5-4 split. If the vote was held today, it would have been a 4-4, which would have upheld the lower court ruling against Citizens United.

[PC2]

That's still possible though no matter one's opinion on the issue. A president does not have absolute power.

Yeah she cares, it's the other people that limited her. Get angry.

[alexw]

Dude, I live in this country. Wtf are you talking about? Why are you linking a Cenk Uygur PAC? What does this have to do with anything??

Do you not understand how American politics works? If Hillary Clinton puts her name on a bill, the republicans will never vote for it. I almost wonder if she is doing this because she knows this way it fail for sure, since she is likely to benefit from the status quo.

Didn't think I needed to explain. There are two ways of amending the constitution. One is states led the other congress led. Both end up needing to be ratified by the states. The link I provided is an organization that is trying to use the states led method of amending the constitution. That requires bills to pass in those state legislatures if its occur. Its done so in 5 states including ones that have at least partial republican control. Ergo there are republican legislatures that have voted to take money out of politics already. So you are wrong because some of them are already voting to do what you say they 100% never in a billion years will do.

[NineSpine]

Let's say I create a group called Citizens Connected and I do not incorporate it.

I get friends and other like minded individuals to give me money. We make a few political ads and run them on TV. Should this be legal?

I'm trying to figure out whether you are against current law for corporate protections, or whether you are against the actual meat of the discussion in the Citizens United ruling.

The meat of the discussion in Citizens United is that it is about corporations. That's what you keep ignoring. You are welcome to run all the ads you want as an individual, and that will come with the individual responsibilities that come with that, just as the fact that you paid for the ad would be public.

[zorkuus]

Yeah she cares, it's the other people that limited her. Get angry.

Whether or not she cares, there WILL be people to limit her. Get real.

[Sargerasraider]

The meat of the discussion in Citizens United is that it is about corporations. That's what you keep ignoring. You are welcome to run all the ads you want as an individual, and that will come with the individual responsibilities that come with that, just as the fact that you paid for the ad would be public.

You're being deliberately obtuse. Should I or should I not be able to gather in a group and do the same thing?

[NineSpine]

You pro-CFR types don't seem to understand that the goal of CFR is impossible. You cannot ban money from politics.

Let's walk this through.

1. You ban the ability of the Koch Brothers to campaign for and against issues they want.
2. The Koch Brothers now have a hole burning their pocket for political activism and cannot buy ads.
3. The Koch Brothers team together with other wealthy conservatives and outright BUY Major TV networks and movie houses, cable networks, and distributors because of the ban.
4. Now they introduce new TV and movie programming that contain right-wing messages. The night news programs are all slanted heavily to the right.
5. These run all year long. Even in your ban window.

What's your move now? Are you going to force them to shut down TV networks, the movie theatres, and the internet 60 days before an election too?

I don't think you understand that people like the Koch brothers are being NICE. They COULD go out and do this NOW. But they don't, because they are allowed to use money to buy ads. But if you actually take their ability away to do that, they will just buy CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, AMC theaters, Regal cinemas, Paramount, Disney, etc.

Its a REALLY good thing Citizens United was ruled the way it was or this would've happened already.

The Koch Brothers can already run all the ads they want as individuals. The only difference is they use their corporations so that they can shield the identities of the donors from public view.

[PC2]

Whether or not she cares, there WILL be people to limit her. Get real.

They are horrible. Hillary really wants to change this and doesn't just want populist votes.

[DrMcNinja]

Another part of her smooth talking which won't see the light of day.

[NineSpine]

You're being deliberately obtuse. Should I or should I not be able to gather in a group and do the same thing?

I already answered your question. I'm not going to answer it a second time just because you didn't like my clear answer.

[Tijuana]

Didn't think I needed to explain. There are two ways of amending the constitution. One is states led the other congress led. Both end up needing to be ratified by the states. The link I provided is an organization that is trying to use the states led method of amending the constitution. That requires bills to pass in those state legislatures if its occur. Its done so in 5 states including ones that have at least partial republican control. Ergo there are republican legislatures that have voted to take money out of politics already. So you are wrong because some of them are already voting to do what you say they 100% never in a billion years will do.

What does this passing 5 of the most liberal legislatures in the country have to do with reaching a goal of 75% of the total, the most of which are controlled by Republicans? Great, you got it passed in 5 states. Only 33 more to go so, you are basically almost there, right?

- - - Updated - - -

You pro-CFR types don't seem to understand that the goal of CFR is impossible. You cannot ban money from politics.

Let's walk this through.

1. You ban the ability of the Koch Brothers to campaign for and against issues they want.
2. The Koch Brothers now have a hole burning their pocket for political activism and cannot buy ads.
3. The Koch Brothers team together with other wealthy conservatives and outright BUY Major TV networks and movie houses, cable networks, and distributors because of the ban.
4. Now they introduce new TV and movie programming that contain right-wing messages. The night news programs are all slanted heavily to the right.
5. These run all year long. Even in your ban window.

What's your move now? Are you going to force them to shut down TV networks, the movie theatres, and the internet 60 days before an election too?

I don't think you understand that people like the Koch brothers are being NICE. They COULD go out and do this NOW. But they don't, because they are allowed to use money to buy ads. But if you actually take their ability away to do that, they will just buy CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, AMC theaters, Regal cinemas, Paramount, Disney, etc.

Its a REALLY good thing Citizens United was ruled the way it was or this would've happened already.

George Soros donates more to the left than they do to the right. Just sayin...

[zorkuus]

They are horrible. Hillary really wants to change this and doesn't just want the votes.

Politicians do what politicians do to get votes. That still doesn't excuse the mess we're talking about.

If slavery was still a thing would you oppose a change just because it was proposed by someone you don't like?

[Grummgug]

The Koch Brothers can already run all the ads they want as individuals. The only difference is they use their corporations so that they can shield the identities of the donors from public view.

Yes but that is something the CFR types want to ban. I'm saying, if they got their way, they actually wouldn't stop big money from influencing elections. The big money would just outright buy the media instead.

[Sargerasraider]

I already answered your question. I'm not going to answer it a second time just because you didn't like my clear answer.

No, you didn't. I asked a simple question and you started talking about corporate protections. That is a different discussion entirely. Stop dodging.

Again, can a group of people pool their money for political purposes? Yes or no?

[NineSpine]

What does this passing 5 of the most liberal legislatures in the country have to do with reaching a goal of 75% of the total, the most of which are controlled by Republicans? Great, you got it passed in 5 states. Only 33 more to go so, you are basically almost there, right?

First of all, it requires 2/3rds, not 75%. Again, spend ten minutes on the wikipedia, at least, before you start blabbering and continue to embarrass yourself.

Second of all, it has also passed bodies in Washington, New Hampshire, Maryland, Missouri, and Delaware. This includes vastly majority Republican bodies.

[PC2]

Politicians do what politicians do to get votes. That still doesn't excuse the mess we're talking about.

If they don't deliver on their promises you have to make them pay. Yet with Democrat voters they don't actually care about results, so long as they are so very scared and affraid of those evil non-Democrats.

[NineSpine]

Yes but that is something the CFR types want to ban. I'm saying, if they got their way, they actually wouldn't stop big money from influencing elections. The big money would just outright buy the media instead.

The government has massive amounts of control over the airwaves as a public commodity. You act like they are a private entity.