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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post
    Ya, just some random law that needs to be changed, right? It's just the constitution, one of the hardest documents in the world to alter. But yeah, should be a real simple thing to just weaken everyone's favorite freedom.
    Corporations having rights intended for people is not everyone's favorite freedom.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    So passing Republican bodies with Republican co-sponsors, after being introduced by Republican led committees, isn't enough to convince you some Republicans can get behind the idea?
    He does not understand the difference between state and national level election politics. Local elections are very much starved for cash and those politicians have to beg for cash from upon high. It means national level politicians use that cash (or the withholding of it) to punish/reward local level politicians. Those local politicians absolutely hate it. Moreover those state level politicos are much less disconnected from the masses. The usual trend is state house > state senate > federal run. So they simply have not had enough time to become as disconnected nor is there the same level of rewards for doing so. It is overall simply much easier for things to pass at the state level if the local population wants it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redtower View Post
    I don't think I ever hide the fact I was a national socialist. The fact I am a German one is what technically makes me a nazi
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    You haven't seen nothing yet, we trumpsters will definitely be getting some cool uniforms soon I hope.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by PrimaryColor View Post
    If they don't deliver on their promises you have to make them pay. Yet with Democrat voters they don't actually care about results, so long as they are so very scared and affraid of those evil non-Democrats.
    Both bodies do this. Neither is any different.

    Its gotten worse over the years with both sides portraying the other as such an evil thing that must be stopped its ridiculous.

    Each side preys on the fear and hatred of the other. Its worse than religion.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    The First Amendment has been weakened BY Citizens United and similar decisions. The idea that unaccountable corporations can flood the national dialogue and drown out all other voices is not in accordance with the idea that people have Freedom of Speech.

    Also, this notion that corporations are people is NEW, so the idea that we were founded on that principle is absolutely bizarre.
    How do PACs "drown out all other voices"? You do know both sides use them, right?

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulForge View Post
    Both bodies do this. Neither is any different.

    Its gotten worse over the years with both sides portraying the other as such an evil thing that must be stopped its ridiculous.

    Each side preys on the fear and hatred of the other. Its worse than religion.
    That's really a false equivalency. While I will be the first to call out the left for demagoguing white working class voters, the sides are not exactly the same on this. 43% of Republicans believe Obama is a secret Muslim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post
    How do PACs "drown out all other voices"? You do know both sides use them, right?
    This may come as a shock to you, but every issue on the planet does not come down to the left taking one uniform position and the right taking one uniform position, followed by wealthy donors equally funding those two positions. Get real.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulForge View Post
    Both bodies do this. Neither is any different.

    Its gotten worse over the years with both sides portraying the other as such an evil thing that must be stopped its ridiculous.

    Each side preys on the fear and hatred of the other. Its worse than religion.
    Totally agree. I have been saying recently it seems like instead of governing, they are just faking it to rile us all up. For example, Democrats are KILLING Republicans on LBGT issues. There was a time when they would work to pass bills to better their cause. Now, they do nothing so they can just keep kicking the ass of the other guys on the issue forevermore. If you solve the problem, now the new "score" (issues based voters) has new math and you just lost your biggest win against the other guy.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post
    Totally agree. I have been saying recently it seems like instead of governing, they are just faking it to rile us all up. For example, Democrats are KILLING Republicans on LBGT issues. There was a time when they would work to pass bills to better their cause. Now, they do nothing so they can just keep kicking the ass of the other guys on the issue forevermore. If you solve the problem, now the new "score" (issues based voters) has new math and you just lost your biggest win against the other guy.
    And isn't it curious that the issue Democrats are KILLING on is one where the money falls on the pro-gay rights side. Interesting...

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    That's really a false equivalency. While I will be the first to call out the left for demagoguing white working class voters, the sides are not exactly the same on this. 43% of Republicans believe Obama is a secret Muslim.

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    This may come as a shock to you, but every issue on the planet does not come down to the left taking one uniform position and the right taking one uniform position, followed by wealthy donors equally funding those two positions. Get real.
    Right so, how does one ad drown out another? Any issue can be put forth. Why do you think one issue having an ad means that the other issue now lost theirs? If public opinion is high for your issue, you should be able to fund raise for it just fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    And isn't it curious that the issue Democrats are KILLING on is one where the money falls on the pro-gay rights side. Interesting...
    We can play chicken and egg all night. But if a lot of people donate to a LGBT PAC, does that not in fact show support for the issue? Is that not just people exercising their free speech? I mean to me, it's no different than me having a bigger political sign in my yard than my neighbor. Would you restrict that also?

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    That's really a false equivalency. While I will be the first to call out the left for demagoguing white working class voters, the sides are not exactly the same on this. 43% of Republicans believe Obama is a secret Muslim.

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    This may come as a shock to you, but every issue on the planet does not come down to the left taking one uniform position and the right taking one uniform position, followed by wealthy donors equally funding those two positions. Get real.
    Is it though?

    It has gotten worse and worse over the years of one party stopping anothers bill or idea just because it was their idea.

    "Republicans introduced this! Kill it!"

    "Democrats think this is a good idea! Kill it!"

    Bipartisanship is so rare now its unbelievable. The only time we see it these days seems to be right after a terrorist attack when they both vote to curtail civil liberties or expand on surveillance based legislation.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    Nobody owns land in the US. You rent it. If you don't pay taxes you lose it.
    What mental gymnastics. Rio 2016

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post
    Totally agree. I have been saying recently it seems like instead of governing, they are just faking it to rile us all up. For example, Democrats are KILLING Republicans on LBGT issues. There was a time when they would work to pass bills to better their cause. Now, they do nothing so they can just keep kicking the ass of the other guys on the issue forevermore. If you solve the problem, now the new "score" (issues based voters) has new math and you just lost your biggest win against the other guy.
    You do realize that the republicans are following the Hastert rule? I.e Only bills that can pass solely via republican votes get put up on the floor the house. Its literally impossible for them to compromise. They have no say in anything that passes the house.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redtower View Post
    I don't think I ever hide the fact I was a national socialist. The fact I am a German one is what technically makes me a nazi
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    You haven't seen nothing yet, we trumpsters will definitely be getting some cool uniforms soon I hope.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulForge View Post
    Is it though?

    It has gotten worse and worse over the years of one party stopping anothers bill or idea just because it was their idea.

    "Republicans introduced this! Kill it!"

    "Democrats think this is a good idea! Kill it!"

    Bipartisanship is so rare now its unbelievable. The only time we see it these days seems to be right after a terrorist attack when they both vote to curtail civil liberties or expand on surveillance based legislation.
    I blame 24 hour cable news that only has 2 hours of news and then fills the rest with partisan assholes telling one side of every issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexw View Post
    You do realize that the republicans are following the Hastert rule? I.e Only bills that can pass solely via republican votes get put up on the floor the house. Its literally impossible for them to compromise. They have no say in anything that passes the house.
    It was no different, or worse, the last time Democrats had control. Look, I'm not a party fan boy. Political parties are for politicians, not voters. It sounds like you want to get in to some back and forth over these two parties and I'm just not your guy. I hate them both.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post
    I hate them both.
    On this we can easily agree.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulForge View Post
    On this we can easily agree.
    And the numbers of people that hate them both truly are growing, based on my completely anecdotal life experience.

    We didn't always only have two parties, and there was a time when we had neither of these. All a political party is, is a grouping of ideas aimed at achieving control via a majority of voters.

    Someone in the thread mentioned how we get so two solution based on issues because of only two parties. Well, maybe the public will be so pissed about choosing between a shady ass crook, and a shady ass crook, that they will truly get behind some existing or new alternate parties.

    I mean, we could also just fucking choose better in a primary just one time in my lifetime.
    Last edited by Tijuana; 2016-07-16 at 07:58 PM.

  15. #175
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Restricting the ability of citizens to lobby for their private interest is a violation of the first amendment which is what the majority decision reflected and determined to be true. It wasn't shot down for no reason. It was shot down because it was unconstitutional.
    People are free to lobby all they want.

    Someone's voice shouldn't be more important if they have more money. That is blatantly against the first amendment, that people's speech would be considered lesser just because they have less money.
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
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  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post
    You would think someone like her, with a law degree, would know that you can't just pass laws to run an end around on the SCOTUS. The first amendment isn't going anywhere.
    Later amendments supersede earlier ones, not the other way around. She's not saying she's going to try to have a law passed over riding citizens united, she's talking about a constitutional amendment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post
    I know of 9 people in black that disagree, and it's their judgment to make, not ours.
    If you're talking about the supreme court, no, you don't. It passed 5-4 and one of the 5 is dead.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
    People are free to lobby all they want.

    Someone's voice shouldn't be more important if they have more money. That is blatantly against the first amendment, that people's speech would be considered lesser just because they have less money.
    How is that even remotely implied by the first amendment? ("Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech")

    Will you also ban megaphones or signs at protests since some people can't afford them?

  18. #178
    Buuuuuulllshit she will... Her and Trump have plans to expand corporate interests, despite what they claim. This is a tactic to get voted, nothing real will come of this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tijuana View Post
    I know of 9 people in black that disagree, and it's their judgment to make, not ours.
    Well it wasnt unanimous, for starters... and is your point that this is working as intended?

  19. #179
    Scarab Lord Zoranon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
    People are free to lobby all they want.

    Someone's voice shouldn't be more important if they have more money. That is blatantly against the first amendment, that people's speech would be considered lesser just because they have less money.
    You must have some very special version of the constitution to reach such conclusion. Mine says "Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of press, speech..." not something like "Congress shall make law ensuring that everyone voice has the same weight".

    Also in case you have not noticed, all bill of rights amendments confer negative rights (freedom from governmental action), not entitlements.
    Quote Originally Posted by b2121945 View Post
    Don't see what's wrong with fighting alongside Nazi Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by JfmC View Post
    someone who disagrees with me is simply wrong.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
    Someone's voice shouldn't be more important if they have more money.
    This, and in a time when the business community is able to save more money on taxes than ever before, theyre now able to reallocate those saving into funding elections. Sounds right, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoranon View Post
    Also in case you have not noticed, all bill of rights amendments confer negative rights (freedom from governmental action), not entitlements.
    The 14th amendment, which is the same amendment that Citizens United questioned: "The 14th Amendment to the Constitution was ratified on July 9, 1868, and granted citizenship to “all persons born or naturalized in the United States,” which included former slaves recently freed.

    Pretty cut and dry adding to entitlement.. The problem is, before 2010, of the 300 or so times this amendment had been brought to court, only 20 or so were bought before the courts because of African Americans. The rest were businesses trying to manipulate their will into law.
    Last edited by Daymanmb; 2016-07-16 at 08:48 PM.

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