[7.0] New Paladin Abilities and Talents

[Merrena]

It was mentioned long long time ago by devs. Another problem(i repeat myself) what if RL want to save BR for later and dont res player with Blessing?

You'll just have to put it on someone else.

[Matt0193]

You'll just have to put it on someone else.

You can't use them in combat, unless you're suggesting to put it on someone who's less of a liability.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

You can't use them in combat, unless you're suggesting to put it on someone who's less of a liability.

As more people discuss it, I just keep thinking "Why are Greater Blessings part of balancing us? Why are they a thing? So many problems."

[Alindra]

I'll be forthcoming: I used Final Verdict the entire expansion and never looked back on a single fight. Hated Seraphim and Seals.

Likewise, I always used Final Verdict because it was reliable and useful (if not the best) in every situation.

I thought the idea of Empowered Seals was interesting, but the implementation sucked. I was intrigued by Seraphim and probably would have used it if not for the legendary ring. Yes, it provided huge benefits when stacked, but if you missed it then you lost big time. When factoring in mechanics that could force you away from the boss during / before a Seraphim window... I could never bring myself to dumpster my damage to learn it. If it either had charges or the ring wasn't present, I would've been more likely to give it a serious shot.

It was mentioned long long time ago by devs. Another problem(i repeat myself) what if RL want to save BR for later and dont res player with Blessing?

Then you lose out on damage you're balanced around, plain and simple. When this was brought up, I believe it was Celestalon who made a pretty snarky post saying "however, if you die, you still do damage [through BoM]". (I tried searching for the post, but with no luck so far.)

-- edit --
Found it:

So when the ill fated target of our greater blessing (something that our damage is being tuned around) is careless enough to get killed, which is fairly likely during progress (the only part of the whole raid system where our abilities matter a damn) then we can wave goodbye to a portion of our damage through no fault of our own?

I know it's often said that dead dps does no dps, but this is taking it to a whole other level.

Yes, and when YOU die, a fraction of your damage lives on. Unlike everyone else, when YOU die, you keep doing some DPS. Regardless, this is not a theorycrafting question, please take it to the feedback threads.

Source

[Kabsal]

Unfortunately, I'm gonna have to agree with Celestalon here. Put it on players that are less likely to die - they're often the ones pulling the bigger numbers anyway. If you claim that ALL those players are so prone to dying, then either you're in a situation where YOU are just as likely to die (and thus be glad that they live on) or you're saying everyone sucks so much to be dying so often that you weren't going to get the kill anyway.

I think the bigger issues are the blessings randomly dropping (I had a bit of that during brief testing earlier this week) and misattribution in logs. Fix those, and I'll be okay with Greater Blessings. Not happy, mind you, but okay with it.

[Deleted]

It was mentioned long long time ago by devs. Another problem(i repeat myself) what if RL want to save BR for later and dont res player with Blessing?

It stays on him and will be there when he gets resed.

If you mean for your loss of DPS... Blizzard.

- - - Updated - - -

Likewise, I always used Final Verdict because it was reliable and useful (if not the best) in every situation.

I thought the idea of Empowered Seals was interesting, but the implementation sucked. I was intrigued by Seraphim and probably would have used it if not for the legendary ring. Yes, it provided huge benefits when stacked, but if you missed it then you lost big time. When factoring in mechanics that could force you away from the boss during / before a Seraphim window... I could never bring myself to dumpster my damage to learn it. If it either had charges or the ring wasn't present, I would've been more likely to give it a serious shot.

There is nothing wrong with that. Seraphim's worth increased on raids with high DPS where the fight becomes a race of burst damage. Shorter fights means you will have more AW uptime during the fight, and stacking it with Seraphim leads to very pleasing results, but as the fight drags on it loses value.

I also sticked to FV. The reason is my raid is not the highest outputting out there. I was regularly the highest DPS (not that i am bad at all mind you. I got some pretty respectable ranks). Also because FV+EDS had a great virtue, wich is that you may be able to cleave it onto adds that pass by. For example in Killrogg you could get a cheeky cleave into the adds for added output. I always found higher sucess with FV than Seraphim. The one fight i tried it on was Zakkun, but it was always at the mercy of bad timing when you got seeds. I see this as a big dowside of the judgement system aswell, especially coupled with our weak mobility. Of course, it's not as bad as a missed Seraphim, but it's still gonna be a huge loss.

[UR1L]

Uuuuuh Judgement back to one extra target?

Doing dungeons here and I'm only getting one extra judge debuff instead of two like the tooltip says.

[Kabsal]

Uuuuuh Judgement back to one extra target?

Doing dungeons here and I'm only getting one extra judge debuff instead of two like the tooltip says.

I've found the second chaining of Judgment to be incredibly unreliable, as I've reported to Blizzard a half dozen times.

[Chaosinciter]

Uuuuuh Judgement back to one extra target?

Doing dungeons here and I'm only getting one extra judge debuff instead of two like the tooltip says.

Nah it's just bugged to hell, i've already put in a report for it as well ontop of opening a thread on the beta bug feedback thread. Just flat out not working pretty much.

[UR1L]

I've found the second chaining of Judgment to be incredibly unreliable, as I've reported to Blizzard a half dozen times.

It seems extremely reliable. Doesn't work at all!

[Deleted]

I've found the second chaining of Judgment to be incredibly unreliable, as I've reported to Blizzard a half dozen times.

Pretty much this. I noticed it aswell. But the problem goes away when you use greater judgement as GJ get 2 chaining hammers flying at the same time. Baseline Judgement only has one.

They need to change it to two but only chain once.

[Deleted]

Unfortunately, I'm gonna have to agree with Celestalon here. Put it on players that are less likely to die - .

It's progress - everyone is going to die; 100% guaranteed. It doesn't alter the fact that placing it on someone who will die to something silly, which is not a predictable event, will reduce your damage while you live on through no fault of your own.

Of course nobody is going to put it on someone who dies in the first wave every single time.

[Merrena]

You can't use them in combat, unless you're suggesting to put it on someone who's less of a liability.

Oh... I totally forgot.

Can Greater Blessings get removed yet?

[Ashelorh]

You guys see the PVP stat templates?
Retribution
Stat Template
Primary: 85%
Mastery: 25%
Haste: 125%
Versatility: 125%
Critical Strike: 125%

Spell Multipliers
Execution Sentence deals 60% damage in PvP
Templar's Verdict deals 70% damage in PvP
Justicar's Vengeance heals for 60% of damage done

I don't get the part about nerfing our finishers. Aren't they supposed to be doing the damage?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I'm guessing they hit pretty hard. I mean it does ignore armor(TV does anyways). I'm not saying I'm right though. Can't wait for the explosion of rage from our fellow Paladins.

[Deleted]

Oh... I totally forgot.

Can Greater Blessings get removed yet?

Only when they randomly decide to drop off for no reason.

[Deleted]

Spell Multipliers
•Execution Sentence deals 60% damage in PvP
•Templar's Verdict deals 70% damage in PvP
•Justicar's Vengeance heals for 60% of damage done


Yep, our mobility has been compensated by nerfing our damage. Sounds about right.

[UR1L]

You guys see the PVP stat templates?
Retribution
Stat Template
Primary: 85%
Mastery: 25%
Haste: 125%
Versatility: 125%
Critical Strike: 125%

Spell Multipliers
Execution Sentence deals 60% damage in PvP
Templar's Verdict deals 70% damage in PvP
Justicar's Vengeance heals for 60% of damage done

I don't get the part about nerfing our finishers. Aren't they supposed to be doing the damage?

I expect Rets do a shit ton of burst in pvp with a Crusader build or a RNG DP-JV procfest build. That is, if we ever actually get to hit something. I'm going to be a very sad Paladin when Freedom gets spellstolen.

[Ashelorh]

I expect Rets do a shit ton of burst in pvp with a Crusader build or a RNG DP-JV procfest build. That is, if we ever actually get to hit something. I'm going to be a very sad Paladin when Freedom gets spellstolen.

Yeah that's the thing though, it might do a lot of damage if you have 80% uptime or whatever but with the little amount of mobility we have, we can't stick to targets to get it to it's full effect.

[ruiizu]

Keep in mind when Justicar's Vengeance does less damage, it also does less healing. So bad mobility, bad damage, bad survival...pretty great.

Edit: With those changes in PvP, finishers basically are regular attacks. Mastery is reduced to 25% of its listed value, meaning Judgment is basically a non-mechanic in PvP beyond doing damage. It literally doesn't buff our finishers in any meaningful way. Keep in mind that if Templar's Verdict is only doing 70% damage, Divine Storm is your go to as soon as more than 1 person appears, period. It heals and does damage in a line.

Pretty sure against cloth that Virtue's Blade is going to do significantly more damage than Templar's Verdict. It's almost like Holy Power won't matter in PvP.