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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Taftvalue View Post
    being able to play elemental shamans, destruction warlocks and other worthless specs (atm) is not making casters OP 'again'
    I know man. You just want an auto win every time you play a game as a caster. NBD or anything.

  2. #42
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I know man. You just want an auto win every time you play a game as a caster. NBD or anything.
    Absolutely not.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by ImprovedEvasion View Post
    You must be doing something wrong.

    When the BG starts I pull up the team panel and see if they have many melees. If they do then I design my Mage/Shaman accordingly and take every anti-melee talent available while maximizing burst to keep up with their damage.

    Blizzard has given you the tools to overcome your issues and then they have given you the forums. Why did you choose the latter over the former?
    ... are you even aware of how mobile, say, Warriors are (2 charges and 3 leaps)? And how much damage they can do CD stacking... particularly since they can auto-crit? Go watch some of the warrior vids out there. Theyre literally deleting people with 1.2-1.5 million damage Mortal Strikes (on ~2.2 mill HP pools) and a simple execute followup. And they are effectively unpeelable.

    Other than Icicle (which is also doing absurd auto-crit damage in the 1.2+ million range) NO caster has anywhere near that kind of damage potential in a single global. Nor do any of them other than an Arcane Mage have nearly enough mobility to stay away from a melee (other than Ret... Ret has taken it in the pooper again on mobility). You can't stand in the face of a melee and out-trade damage. They dont have to cast (its all instant), are super mobile, and hit 2-3x as hard per global.

    Seriously, the state of PvP on the Beta is a farce.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    You aren't very bright as well if you think @110 something changes.

    2OP: you don't. If you wish to pvp in Legion, roll melee (not a retri though).
    Pretty much this. Blizzard bragged up all their new ways to tune pvp without hurting pve, but they still haven't bothered to balance anything out yet. The shit show we have on beta will be the final product.
    Bandwagon sports fans can eat a bag of http://www.ddir.com/ .

  5. #45
    Banned ImprovedEvasion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    ... are you even aware of how mobile, say, Warriors are (2 charges and 3 leaps)? And how much damage they can do CD stacking... particularly since they can auto-crit? Go watch some of the warrior vids out there. Theyre literally deleting people with 1.2-1.5 million damage Mortal Strikes (on ~2.2 mill HP pools) and a simple execute followup. And they are effectively unpeelable.

    Other than Icicle (which is also doing absurd auto-crit damage in the 1.2+ million range) NO caster has anywhere near that kind of damage potential in a single global. Nor do any of them other than an Arcane Mage have nearly enough mobility to stay away from a melee (other than Ret... Ret has taken it in the pooper again on mobility). You can't stand in the face of a melee and out-trade damage. They dont have to cast (its all instant), are super mobile, and hit 2-3x as hard per global.

    Seriously, the state of PvP on the Beta is a farce.
    I will have you know that I graduated college last year so don't even try to use numbers to confuse me.

    The fact of the matter is that those twelve-point-five-million damage hits you see are a result of CD stacking and are all concentrated into one or two instances of damage (just like an Assassination Rogue on live can delete seventy percent of someone's health bar with a well-stacked Death From Above). So the correct strategy to adopt would be to anticipate those hits and respond with a cooldown such as Counterstrike Totem or Ice Block.

    There is an answer, it's just that it hasn't been figured out and/or been popularized in the mainstream yet.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    ... are you even aware of how mobile, say, Warriors are (2 charges and 3 leaps)? And how much damage they can do CD stacking... particularly since they can auto-crit? Go watch some of the warrior vids out there. Theyre literally deleting people with 1.2-1.5 million damage Mortal Strikes (on ~2.2 mill HP pools) and a simple execute followup. And they are effectively unpeelable.

    Other than Icicle (which is also doing absurd auto-crit damage in the 1.2+ million range) NO caster has anywhere near that kind of damage potential in a single global. Nor do any of them other than an Arcane Mage have nearly enough mobility to stay away from a melee (other than Ret... Ret has taken it in the pooper again on mobility). You can't stand in the face of a melee and out-trade damage. They dont have to cast (its all instant), are super mobile, and hit 2-3x as hard per global.

    Seriously, the state of PvP on the Beta is a farce.
    Only Furry can have 2 charges and 3 leaps Arms can't, but only if take talents for it witch mean lost of other deffencive talents and Warrior only stun ,

    1mln Ms were nerfed , FR buff MS only by 20%in PvP now insted of 50% alsow Arms get very low master in PvP stats (25%)what also lover MS damage burst

  7. #47
    Bloodsail Admiral Kanariya's Avatar
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    Reroll Melee. It's horrendous on Beta right now. Any gap opener you use will immediately be countered. PvP talents do not fix this either, Melee gain even more gap closers while Casters don't gain any openers.

    There's no point in playing as a Caster this expansion. Blizzard is not going to fix it now, they won't fix it before Legion, and they won't fix it during Legion. Reroll Melee.

  8. #48
    Every damage dealing caster spec in the game will have a R1 viable 3s comp in legion, I can assure you.

    Now if you're worried about normal bgs or dueling on the other hand then you have 3 choices, the first choice is to take it like a man and not whine about it, the second is to swap to a more viable spec in said bg/ duel ( if you're a hybrid go melee, if you're a priest go holy or something), and your third option is to get good.

    All of the above are viable options for normal bgs/ duels, since most can agree the only focus for balance in pvp happens in 3v3 ( or at least they've been trying ;p ).

  9. #49
    You forgot the fourth option: just ignore wow's non-3s arenas pvp. Which is, by the way, one of the smartest actions one can make. At least it is way much smarter than advicing people to reroll from shadow priest to heal.
    No more time wasted in WoW.. still reading this awesome forum, though

  10. #50
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Just go after Ret, you'll likely own their ass. At least once July 19th comes. Trust me on this.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Taftvalue View Post
    And you're an idiot if you believe it will be any different once Legion goes live.

    Blizz has a huge melee boner and has been screwing casters over since the day WoD went live.

    In MoP casters had 2 times the cc/mobility and could cast while moving or had tons of instant casts while melees had the same amount of mobility. Then WoD came and casters were gutted while melees retained everything. Seems balanced, kek.
    With the exception of Frost Mage in earlier expansions MoP was kind of an outlier (there were still more melee in higher brackets anyway but it wasn't as bad as in WoD). Cata was World of Meleecraft. Wrath was World of Meleecraft until the end when casters gained silly amount of haste (still more melee thanks to infinite ArPen), TBC had also an outlier of SL/SL Warlock (that was still beat by some melee).

    But WoD looks like paradise compared to Legion. The PvP talents of melee are ultimate cancer. Especially if you are a DoT caster. But hey, at least disarm makes a combat to counterbalance interrupts and silences. Oh, wait, only Rogues get it.


    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    I have a feeling a lot of ranged certainly think some 40 sec perma snare is balanced. The longer the snares from casters the more you need to up the burst dmg from melee to make it balanced or casters dont stand any risk of dying before they are healed up to full.

    Pretty striking that casters// ranged thing it is a bad thing to not be able to snare for ever, when that snare scenario is whats created the problem in the first place
    Except that currently it's melee who don't stand any risk of being away from their target for more than a blink of an eye. And Blizzard removed the caster side of the problem, especially in Legion. The melee side is untouched and if anything made worse. Hell, Warlocks are literally expected to sit in one spot with casting circle.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Agreed. People always blow shit like this out of proportion. I played melee in early iterations of WoW, so I know the pain of being endlessly kited, with long snares, stuns, and fears etc.

    I'm so so so sorry that melee can actually hit you now.
    So what you're saying is you haven't played a melee since TBC? Gap closer bonanza began in WotLK, melee have permanent 50% snare since pretty much forever, they've always had more stuns and everyone and their mother has a fear break since Cata (plus they break from sneezing at your monitor since MoP).


    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    Naah it might actually be playable for once this time around when you arent going to be perma snared for 45seconds not being able to do anything to the caster
    You could try WoD for once instead of playing unofficial WoW servers.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2016-07-16 at 11:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by kubuntu View Post
    Only Furry can have 2 charges and 3 leaps Arms can't, but only if take talents for it witch mean lost of other deffencive talents and Warrior only stun ,

    1mln Ms were nerfed , FR buff MS only by 20%in PvP now insted of 50% alsow Arms get very low master in PvP stats (25%)what also lover MS damage burst
    all the videos im talking about are post-nerf.

    The ones before the nerf, they were literally two-shotting people and the MS was doing over 2 million.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ImprovedEvasion View Post
    I will have you know that I graduated college last year so don't even try to use numbers to confuse me.

    The fact of the matter is that those twelve-point-five-million damage
    .. 1.2-1.5 million. Out of roughly 2.2 million health pools. You graduated college but you cant read. I love the US education system.

    hits you see are a result of CD stacking and are all concentrated into one or two instances of damage (just like an Assassination Rogue on live can delete seventy percent of someone's health bar with a well-stacked Death From Above). So the correct strategy to adopt would be to anticipate those hits and respond with a cooldown such as Counterstrike Totem or Ice Block.
    ... which not every ranged has. I mean, go ahead and tell me what my huge defensive cooldown that is going to save me is as, say, an Afflock. Or a hunter. And, quite honestly, you cant always predict it coming. They can build up the rage required on a different target and target-swap to you and delete you. None of the abilities are telegraphed. By the time you see the "So and so has used X" pop up, you're already deleted.

    There is an answer, it's just that it hasn't been figured out and/or been popularized in the mainstream yet.
    No, there really isn't. And the stuff is on a short enough cooldown, that they can just do it again very shortly.

    Quote Originally Posted by wholol View Post
    Every damage dealing caster spec in the game will have a R1 viable 3s comp in legion, I can assure you.
    ... uh, great. That's... really great for the like.. 5% of people who play rated Arena for fun. The vast majority of people who PvP do BGs. Those should be fun too. Strange concept, i know.

    Now if you're worried about normal bgs or dueling on the other hand then you have 3 choices, the first choice is to take it like a man and not whine about it, the second is to swap to a more viable spec in said bg/ duel ( if you're a hybrid go melee, if you're a priest go holy or something), and your third option is to get good.

    All of the above are viable options for normal bgs/ duels, since most can agree the only focus for balance in pvp happens in 3v3 ( or at least they've been trying ;p ).
    most can also agree that their failed "only balance for 3s" concept is stupid and un-fun for the majority of people who PvP - who do not do 3s.

  13. #53
    @Kagthul it's not that their concept of only balancing 3s is stupid, it's that they are simply unable to balance pvp period, arenas are the closest thing they're able to have any semblance of control over because it's a micro environment with minimal chaos ( not saying it doesn't exist but it's the least random type of pvp ).

    In fact they're barely able to balance arenas, so much that they had to limit their focus on 3v3 as the "balance" bracket and gave up on 2v2/5v5 which used to be a competitive bracket before ( 2s more than 5s), now 2v2 is simply for boosting conquest caps or getting larger caps in the early stages of the season, basically the only resources funneled towards pvp are the ones going towards 3v3 balance.

    Anything outside of that bracket is as unfair as the inequality in the world
    Last edited by wholol; 2016-07-17 at 02:21 AM.

  14. #54
    If you're really bad at kiting, or just don't want to do it, play Affliction.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by wholol View Post
    @Kagthul it's not that their concept of only balancing 3s is stupid, it's that they are simply unable to balance pvp period, arenas are the closest thing they're able to have any semblance of control over because it's a micro environment with minimal chaos ( not saying it doesn't exist but it's the least random type of pvp ).

    In fact they're barely able to balance arenas, so much that they had to limit their focus on 3v3 as the "balance" bracket and gave up on 2v2/5v5 which used to be a competitive bracket before ( 2s more than 5s), now 2v2 is simply for boosting conquest caps or getting larger caps in the early stages of the season, basically the only resources funneled towards pvp are the ones going towards 3v3 balance.

    Anything outside of that bracket is as unfair as the inequality in the world
    Which doesn't make it any less of a failed concept.

    Contrary to popular belief, the game can be balanced. They aren't even close to taking the correct steps to do it though. Template PvP instead of individual (and separate PvP/PvE) tuning on each skill is an example of their stupidity. Testers have been telling them literally since the original beta (I was one of them!) that they needed to have ALL abilities do different things in PvP/PvE (separate damage numbers/multipliers, durations, etc)... and they have literally never listened, and even several times, said they would never do that as it is counter-intuitive...

    and then started doing it for some problem abilities anyway (Chaos Bolt, for example)... now we have a large minority of abilities that behave differently in PvP and PvE in one way or another - and to make it even worse, none of those differences are documented in-game. You'd never know that Chaos Bolt does less damage to players unless you follow blue posts, for instance. Why it is so damn hard to make functional tooltips, i will never know.

    Its the blind leading the deaf and stupid over there. Basic system mechanics seem too hard for them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadiru View Post
    If you're really bad at kiting, or just don't want to do it, play Affliction.
    And do little to no damage while you desperately spam drain life to stay alive (which works pretty well, actually...).... right up until you get stunned/interrupted/knocked out of your Casting Circle and then explode like flash paper.
    Last edited by Kagthul; 2016-07-17 at 04:19 AM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    Which doesn't make it any less of a failed concept.

    Contrary to popular belief, the game can be balanced. They aren't even close to taking the correct steps to do it though. Template PvP instead of individual (and separate PvP/PvE) tuning on each skill is an example of their stupidity. Testers have been telling them literally since the original beta (I was one of them!) that they needed to have ALL abilities do different things in PvP/PvE (separate damage numbers/multipliers, durations, etc)... and they have literally never listened, and even several times, said they would never do that as it is counter-intuitive...

    and then started doing it for some problem abilities anyway (Chaos Bolt, for example)... now we have a large minority of abilities that behave differently in PvP and PvE in one way or another - and to make it even worse, none of those differences are documented in-game. You'd never know that Chaos Bolt does less damage to players unless you follow blue posts, for instance. Why it is so damn hard to make functional tooltips, i will never know.

    Its the blind leading the deaf and stupid over there. Basic system mechanics seem too hard for them.

    I believe they don't have the budget to pull off massive balancing plans for pvp,they would need to rehaul the very system this game operates on to entirely split pvp and pve as 2 separate games with totally different abilities/scaling and gearing in every pvp aspect possible and there's usually a set amount of resources for each department with certain goals in mind and most of it isn't going towards the pvp area of things so they are somewhat limited with how much they can achieve said balance, the templates we're getting in legion are about as good as it gets in terms of actual resource investment in pvp.
    Last edited by wholol; 2016-07-17 at 05:15 AM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    And do little to no damage while you desperately spam drain life to stay alive (which works pretty well, actually...).... right up until you get stunned/interrupted/knocked out of your Casting Circle and then explode like flash paper.
    Well, at least they have some sort of kick protection. Shadow priests, for example, can neither kite nor cast under pressure.

    At this point, IMO, either interrupts should be deleted from the game, or we should have disarms back, or interrupts should have a really huge CD in pvp, like 2 min cd or something like that.
    No more time wasted in WoW.. still reading this awesome forum, though

  18. #58
    Its amazing how we're one month away and people are freaking out with Lot's of tuning to be done still . while I understand the posters concern there's still time

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfury View Post
    Its amazing how we're one month away and people are freaking out with Lot's of tuning to be done still . while I understand the posters concern there's still time
    Lol, are you even serious? Let me remind you how this happens, since it happens every expansion:

    1. Alpha: "Hey guys its just alpha no need to freak out, everything will be fixed!"
    2. Beta: "Hey guys its just beta no need to freak out, everything will be fixed!"
    3. Prepatch: "Hey guys its just a prepatch, no need to freak out, everything will be fixed!"
    4. Release: "Hey guys we just released, no need to freak out they will fix everything in a future patches for sure!!"
    5. Final expansion's patch: "Hey guys, no need to freak out... they will certainly fix that in next expansion!"

    Five steps of blizzdrone's denial.
    No more time wasted in WoW.. still reading this awesome forum, though

  20. #60
    "Warriors 5 Gap Closer" "Multiple Heroic Leap"

    1 Charge (2 if you skill it - Needs one talent row)
    1 Heroic Leap
    = 5
    War within is boring and lazy - beat me to it.

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