[Balance] Legion Discussion

[Catbug]

Do you think we'll be using Seed+Orb for single target in prepatch or Seed+DsI? Or will we just continue using Orb and DsI

[wing5wong]

Il be runnig seed and DSI still i think. same as now, swapping orb for demons.
Fat StFl damage.

[Elennoko]

keep dots up. cast empowered spells. cast starsurge. cast unempowered wrath

It's mainly New Moon that is confusing me a bit. It's probably really simple and it's just going over my head because I'm an idiot. I know you never let it hit 3 charges, so do you chain cast it at the start for an immediate full moon, and then cast another charge to get to half and then wait for 2 charges to get another full moon or do you just cast it as you get charges?

[thedeisel]

@thedeisel
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Message me on discord. I'll give you the spreadsheet I use.

done. it's from Herc#something or other.

My point about Starsurge damage and the SW/LS traits is not that Empowerments do proportionally more. In absolute terms, empowerments are stronger with those traits than without. The same can't be said about FoE (obviously). So, SS+Empowerments is more damage with SW/LS traits than without.

The only sense in which FoE can be said to do more damage because of those traits is the indirect sense Gebuz mentioned. Namely, if you spend AP on SS rather than FoE, you're using more GCDs to spend the AP than you do when you spend it on FoE and so can cast more SW. (Though again the same applies to Nature's Balance, so it's probably a wash between those talents.)

Looking forward to the spreadsheet. Thanks for sharing.

[wing5wong]

It's mainly New Moon that is confusing me a bit. It's probably really simple and it's just going over my head because I'm an idiot. I know you never let it hit 3 charges, so do you chain cast it at the start for an immediate full moon, and then cast another charge to get to half and then wait for 2 charges to get another full moon or do you just cast it as you get charges?

You can min/max the damage by waiting for trinket procs, using with CDs etc, but essentially just dont let them cap, or let them overcap you on AP

[Cyous]

done. it's from Herc#something or other.

My point about Starsurge damage and the SW/LS traits is not that Empowerments do proportionally more. In absolute terms, empowerments are stronger with those traits than without. The same can't be said about FoE (obviously). So, SS+Empowerments is more damage with SW/LS traits than without.

The only sense in which FoE can be said to do more damage because of those traits is the indirect sense Gebuz mentioned. Namely, if you spend AP on SS rather than FoE, you're using more GCDs to spend the AP than you do when you spend it on FoE and so can cast more SW. (Though again the same applies to Nature's Balance, so it's probably a wash between those talents.)

Looking forward to the spreadsheet. Thanks for sharing.

Resend your request on Discord.
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I don't see your point. We aren't comparing "Empowerment Trait" vs. "No Empowerment Trait"...so what does it matter? You get ~30sec of FOE. Then you get ~60sec of Starsurge. In that 60sec, you still benefit from Empowerment. Hence, I don't get your point. You get more benefit uptime, but not effective damage per ASP spend.

[Deleted]

The tauren passive will be better, considering quite a few crit bonuses on gear, that being said though it's not very good, and particularly how the troll active works with increasing our haste every 3 minutes, meaning you get those early stacks faster.

So.. What you say is that it wont be any meaning to change from Tauren to Troll in Legion, even if troll was 200 DPS better in WoD?

[theburned]

So.. What you say is that it wont be any meaning to change from Tauren to Troll in Legion, even if troll was 200 DPS better in WoD?

Quite the opposite, tauren is below average class bonus, while troll is quite a lot above, thing with berserk is that you can use it to get your moon and stars started faster, on top of what it already does.

Personally I am a resto/boomkin and I somewhat value stamina, so I prefer the extra crit healing on regrowth and extra stam over a 10 sec cd every 3 min.
But I would say troll is quite a bit stronger in legion just because of moon and stars.

Also I am not raiding at the top level so I don't really need to value racial over the look and feel of the character.

[xtramuscle]

Is that another moonfire buff or just the spammy part?

[huth]

Is that another moonfire buff or just the spammy part?

Neither. No changes to Balance at all from what i can see.

Lunar Inspiration is Cat Form Moonfire.

Looks like we're the measuring stick for everybody else.

[Deleted]

Has anyone raided yet with balance? How is it? Is it good like in WOD or kinda weak? Cleared 13/13m with priest balance hunter and mage and I can't make up my mind on what to play in legion. I dont like BM so probably not hunter, and shadow priest doesnt look that good... do I really have to go mage to be sure to deliver good dps? :/

[Zhere]

Has anyone raided yet with balance? How is it? Is it good like in WOD or kinda weak? Cleared 13/13m with priest balance hunter and mage and I can't make up my mind on what to play in legion. I dont like BM so probably not hunter, and shadow priest doesnt look that good... do I really have to go mage to be sure to deliver good dps? :/

As balance you will do fine DPS. The biggest hinder for your DPS should be not being able to be highly efficient in mythic+ - which means less access to gear. You should not be underperforming though, Balance does fine DPS at the moment.

[Deleted]

As balance you will do fine DPS. The biggest hinder for your DPS should be not being able to be highly efficient in mythic+ - which means less access to gear. You should not be underperforming though, Balance does fine DPS at the moment.

What do you mean that balance dps is not efficient in mythic? Poor dps on the right targets?

[Dragontoth]

What do you mean that balance dps is not efficient in mythic? Poor dps on the right targets?

Balance AoE has alot of rampup time, thats ok in raids where u prepare for it, but in mythic+ dungeons alot of the challange are the trash packs, where Balance falls of having to dot up everything and getting AP for starfall after. Other classes are strict better for mythic+ dungeons but when u are just looking to get some gear out of it, Balance should be fine.

[Zhere]

Balance AoE has alot of rampup time, thats ok in raids where u prepare for it, but in mythic+ dungeons alot of the challange are the trash packs, where Balance falls of having to dot up everything and getting AP for starfall after. Other classes are strict better for mythic+ dungeons but when u are just looking to get some gear out of it, Balance should be fine.

Another thing to note is that if you are in a guild who wants to do mythic+ to gear up their raiders, they would compensat classes weakest with classes strongest in mythic+ dungeons, so that solves a huge issue.

[Deleted]

Another thing to note is that if you are in a guild who wants to do mythic+ to gear up their raiders, they would compensat classes weakest with classes strongest in mythic+ dungeons, so that solves a huge issue.

Yea... lets say we wont have balance and shadow priests together. :P Btw, I joined beta last week so dont know much about legion yet, but are mythic dungeons mandatory to do mythic in legion? Anyone have a list of ilev gear that drops from mythic dungeons and the first normal/hc/mythic raid? Ty!

[huth]

Mandatory? No, definitely not. Will there be idiots that demand it anyway? Sure.

But you can get loot up to the global iLvl cap(850 before raids open, 895 after, will increase with patches) from any Legion content, so there is no actual mandatory content.

[Albimoo]

Is there any passive increase to artifact or something that requires us to play balance? I would probably rather run a good comp with a good group and go resto as long as it didnt set me back.

[Lucrece]

Is there any passive increase to artifact or something that requires us to play balance? I would probably rather run a good comp with a good group and go resto as long as it didnt set me back.

No. Just keep in mind due to the immense time sinks to leveling up an artifact, you will be considerably behind on your alt artifacts.

So choose your spec wisely.

They can talk all they want about artifact knowledge, but behind all that BS it's basically gonna be the same as grinding up your legendary ring on an alt; you'll be weeks behind on progression.

[Albimoo]

Yeah its whatever, from what I hear resto will be more than good enough not to need a super progressed artifact, and I would rather not be fighting an uphill battle playing balance or be forced to grab some real good classes to make up for sucking.