Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[Hexxidecimal]

They talked about it in one of the Q&A. I don't think they will bring it in a patch... because leveling artefacts is a big part of legion they don't want it to be super easy on alt

The Global AK increase will hopefully be enough for everything but the 20 point sink.

[Wow]

Few buffs for combat but sad to see no real changes overall and yet things like feral got overhauled in this hotfix and no other talent changes for rogues at all other than killing spree sad.

[Krazzorx]

How exactly does outlaw compare to other classes? Or is the sim not really good at comparing that?

One thing to remember in regards to tuning that throws a wrench into planning out "is x spec better or worse than y?" Is relics. I know my guild for instance will be swimming in shadow relics and has very few iron and storm which really makes outlaw appealing.

Because there's a big difference between being below sub/mut but still being above most other specs in the game and being below most other specs in the game.

[Wow]

How exactly does outlaw compare to other classes? Or is the sim not really good at comparing that?

It's lower than most in st without good rng, aoe it's way way behind any spec strong at aoe as are all rogue specs. Basically all three rogues specs are bring near the same toolkit but combat get's low st dmg for some reason.

[kalaratic]

How exactly does outlaw compare to other classes? Or is the sim not really good at comparing that?

One thing to remember in regards to tuning that throws a wrench into planning out "is x spec better or worse than y?" Is relics. I know my guild for instance will be swimming in shadow relics and has very few iron and storm which really makes outlaw appealing.

Because there's a big difference between being below sub/mut but still being above most other specs in the game and being below most other specs in the game.

imo it's not worth using relics as a deciding factor for what to spec to play. as it is atm on the beta it's really easy to get relics for all your specs at really high ilvls. also for outlaw specifically, humongris is a world boss that is up each week and he drops an 860 iron relic, meaning you have 4 chances every week to get it if you want to burn your rolls on it. still ya it's nice to be in that group with the least amount of people that need a certain item (like tier groups depending on your comp), but i don't think you should value them that much.

[Krazzorx]

I'm not entirely sure some of those world bosses actually will be up every week. As I believe him, Nithogg and I think one other are ALWAYS up but no others

Judging by how they said in a the QnA that you'd only fight each world boss a few times a year, I'm thinking its a bug they are up all the time in beta and fixing it doesn't matter.

It matters in the sense that, even if technically all things being equal mut is better than outlaw, if outlaw's weapon ilvl is significantly higher than mut's then outlaw would beat it.

It's very hard to predict loot drops, but on average you still will be far more likely to get relics from raids than elsewhere.

Anyways, regardless, how does it compare to other class' specs?

[Deleted]

Anyone who already knows or cant test the damage of pistol shot with the legendary bracers? I know they just got nerfed but would be nice to know some actual numbers. How much do you hit without procs, how much with quick draw and with blunderbuss?

[Deleted]

Between the eyes has an annoying delay afterwards that kills the flow of combat.

[xenothaulus]

Has there been an explanation for why Bones is the default and S&D is the top tier talent? Why isn't it the other way around, with S&D being our baseline, but Roll the Bones being a replacement that has the chance to be really really good (or mediocre or even bad) depending on the roll?

[Kalador]

Has there been an explanation for why Bones is the default and S&D is the top tier talent? Why isn't it the other way around, with S&D being our baseline, but Roll the Bones being a replacement that has the chance to be really really good (or mediocre or even bad) depending on the roll?

Because outlaw gameplay is based around RtB... SnD should not even be a choice, they just put it there if you don't want the rng, but playing outlaw with SnD is the most boring thing ever, and probably a dps lost...

[xenothaulus]

Because outlaw gameplay is based around RtB... SnD should not even be a choice, they just put it there if you don't want the rng, but playing outlaw with SnD is the most boring thing ever, and probably a dps lost...

Slice and Dice + Alacrity seems to synergize awesomely with Main Gauche and Combat Potency. Nearly infinite energy and combo points = more Slashes, more Shots, more Finishers.

[Kalador]

Slice and Dice + Alacrity seems to synergize awesomely with Main Gauche and Combat Potency. Nearly infinite energy and combo points = more Slashes, more Shots, more Finishers.

Oh don't get me wrong here it's probably decent if you don't want to deal with rtb rng in terms of dps but even if it's better, in the end, outlaw is clearly design to play with RtB, the spec is rly dead without you lose the BtE weaving, cd reduction, and all the change of pace ... the spec is not hard to play with RtB but at least there is somthing happening... with SnD it's a braindead button mashing spec.

[xenothaulus]

Oh don't get me wrong here it's probably decent if you don't want to deal with rtb rng in terms of dps but even if it's better, in the end, outlaw is clearly design to play with RtB, the spec is rly dead without you lose the BtE weaving, cd reduction, and all the change of pace ... the spec is not hard to play with RtB but at least there is somthing happening... with SnD it's a braindead button mashing spec.

So the true successor to Combat.

[Kalador]

So the true successor to Combat.

lol, if you play with SnD yes, playing with RtB is fun, yes it's FUCKING rng but I have to admit it's fun to play XD.

[XZlayeD]

lol, if you play with SnD yes, playing with RtB is fun, yes it's FUCKING rng but I have to admit it's fun to play XD.

The thing is, it's not RNG as people think it is because you can simply reroll the buff. If you were stuck with the roll you got that'd be a different story entirely. The spec is about understanding which buff combinations are optimal to which situations, and know when to reroll which is a ton of fun. By simply rerolling for 2 buffs, or keep either Shark infested Waters or True Bearing at the right times you can easily do 20%+ of that sims currently say, since the APL never rerolls the buff.

[Kalador]

The thing is, it's not RNG as people think it is because you can simply reroll the buff. If you were stuck with the roll you got that'd be a different story entirely. The spec is about understanding which buff combinations are optimal to which situations, and know when to reroll which is a ton of fun. By simply rerolling for 2 buffs, or keep either Shark infested Waters or True Bearing at the right times you can easily do 20%+ of that sims currently say, since the APL never rerolls the buff.

Mhmmm that doesn't change the fact that it's rng, rerolling is still rng and it as a cost in dps as you don't use a dmg finisher and you risk getting a buff as bad or worst than you have, yes you can reroll, yes you can maximize by knowing when to try for a new roll but it doesn't change anything about the fact that rtb is rng....

[Tellof]

The thing is, it's not RNG as people think it is because you can simply reroll the buff. If you were stuck with the roll you got that'd be a different story entirely. The spec is about understanding which buff combinations are optimal to which situations, and know when to reroll which is a ton of fun. By simply rerolling for 2 buffs, or keep either Shark infested Waters or True Bearing at the right times you can easily do 20%+ of that sims currently say, since the APL never rerolls the buff.

What you're talking about is buff fishing, which is exactly what a lot of people want to avoid and why they call it RNG. RTB is not extremely RNG when you accept whatever buffs it gives you because Blizzard has supposedly balanced between them, but if a ton of adds come out and you suddenly want increased attack speed for Blade Flurry, it may not be fun or a DPS gain to fish for that buff as opposed to just using Run Through during that 30-40 second window.

To me, what makes RTB fun is how it changes the pacing of the spec and forces you to pay close attention to your resources. I also like using Between The Eyes during Shark Infested Waters, and I wish they added 1-2 more synergies like this to the rotation. I definitely don't want to just re-roll the bones all the time hoping to keep high uptime on 2+ buffs.

[WskyDK]

Isn't shark infested waters the worst of the buffs since crit is almost I least important stat?
I mean, it's not garbage, but it's definitely outclassed by all the others

[lxoxrxd]

Isn't shark infested waters the worst of the buffs since crit is almost I least important stat?
I mean, it's not garbage, but it's definitely outclassed by all the others

Crit is on par with all the other secondaries.

[XZlayeD]

Isn't shark infested waters the worst of the buffs since crit is almost I least important stat?
I mean, it's not garbage, but it's definitely outclassed by all the others

Getting Shark Infested Waters during AR and CotD is the highest damage combination there is, even if you get it as a single buff, you should keep it during that combination, and then reroll it afterwards - SIW is good in any situation where you've got an energy buff, but not on its own.