Terrorist attack in Nice France

[jace5869]

Some people just like being wrong.

Plenty of great commanders that have losses under their belt. He did a many great things. Undeniable.

[Deleted]

You are saying pedophilia is a perfectly acceptable practice?

........Wut?

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Thank god then that the migrants arent using swimming tanks either or we would need tank traps. Thank god most people are misserable swimmers so they wont notice when we conduct our business of pulling their boats back into international waters miles outside of their field of view, with radar and satelite technology being on hand and all. What a time to be alive, eh?

Such European values!

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It's when you chant "EU! EU! EU" whenever you feel good (kinda like the arabic allahu ackbar thing, it doesn't need to make sense, you just have to do it), have a tear in your eyes whenever you see the European flag and instead of a lullaby, you sind the national anthem to your kids, who of course learn the first words "I pledge allegiance" before they learn "mum" and "dad". Proper patriotism, you know?

Ahahah
" EU! EU! EU! "
sounds horrible

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Molenbeek, Southern France, Paris and other cities are like a jungle hiding poisonous snakes. If you dont cut down the jungle, you wont have a chace to spot the snakes. Get rid of the what and the who, that allow them to hide and you get rid of the snakes. It has been shown time and time again, these zones actively support jihadism and go to great efforts to punish anyone trying to break with that tradtion.
The longer you wait, the less peacefull the solution will be. After all burning down the god damn jungle is always quicker than relocating tree and snake individually.

So we should burn down Paris?

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Portugal has been realocating people and demolishing slums for the past 20 years with success. And it helped alot with the integration of African community.

Oh yes by all means we should knock those banlieu north of Paris down and start again I absolutely agree. Problem is the sheer size of them.

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I'm asking this because I'm not really in a place that has any contact with muslims or its society. But it does seem illogical to me to invite he who thinks you are the enemy into your backyard. Even the more moderate still think you represent all sorts of devious beliefs just don't act on it. It sounds to me like a recipe for disaster.

We already have millions of Muslims living peacefully inside europe.

By the way we're not inviting anyone.

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First things, first. Let's get one thing straight: Pros, aren't typing on mmo-champion on a saturday. We're both amateurs. At this, at least.

Second, I have absolutely no suggestion. Nor do I need to have, since I'm not actually the one creating policy (and neither are you). At this point, I'm inclined to believe the shit has hit the fan, so to speak. I'm only wondering whether or not it was really a good idea to invite obvious problems to your backyard. Of course, hindsight is 20/20 but still..

We invited no one

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Oh! Great, someone less inclined to be agressive. Great. So that's why I was asking questions.

Then, their beliefs ARE NOT in direct contradiction with your liberties?

Then the questions remains, does she only claim to be muslim (but doesn't really care) OR are the two things not completely polar opposites? By two things I mean "muslim religion" - "western liberties".

There's millions of Muslims living a modern life in peace inside europe

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Ideologies are definable. You CAN define someone into or out of an ideology based on their positions. Islam and Islamic Jihadism are ideologies. It's not fallacious the way it is for nationality (the original context of No True Scotsman). If someone's beliefs are radically opposed to their stated ideology, they are in fact not a true representative of that ideology. Participating in the interpretation of Jihad and Hadiths that involes violence against non believers is not an "out" marker, it is an "in" marker and that will be the case as long as there are not clear cut lines regarding that interpretation.
Just because your interpretation of the holy scripture differs doesn't mean that the ideology has changed or its definition has to be extended.

That would make sense, if only jihad didn't have another meaning, the one that the other billion people are following.

[bufferunderrun]

Yes, that's going to make the inhabitants of the inhabitated islands very happy. Keeping an eye on 5000 suspicious people based on actual evidence is one thing, asking for war with 1.5 billion people over the question of whether or not Jesus or Mohammed is the prime prophet of god worship is... so 13th century.

in fact i'm not asking to deport all muslims or something like that, i'm asking to remove from society those who are already under heavy surveillance because there are proof of their extreme radicalization and the risk of them committing or give support to terrorist attacks is extremely high.
The problem here is that you and other are unable to accept that a small number of individuals despite being second or even third generation immigrant and full fledged european are heavily radicalized and nothing you do can change it.

[Slant]

in fact i'm not asking to deport all muslims or something like that, i'm asking to remove from society those who are already under heavy surveillance because there are proof of their extreme radicalization and the risk of them committing or give support to terrorist attacks is extremely high.
The problem here is that you and other are unable to accept that a small number of individuals despite being second or even third generation immigrant and full fledged european are heavily radicalized and nothing you do can change it.

Glad you understand the problem. Nobody knows for sure why they are radicalised like that. And we don't know how to stop it. So, your solution is just to... make it go away by dumping them on an island?

Will that stop other people from becoming radicalised?

[Deleted]

in fact i'm not asking to deport all muslims or something like that, i'm asking to remove from society those who are already under heavy surveillance because there are proof of their extreme radicalization and the risk of them committing or give support to terrorist attacks is extremely high.
The problem here is that you and other are unable to accept that a small number of individuals despite being second or even third generation immigrant and full fledged european are heavily radicalized and nothing you do can change it.

Being radicalised doesn't blow up people. Carrying bombs blows up people.
Surveillance is necessary on hotheads. Preventing the organisation of these people is even more important.

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Glad you understand the problem. Nobody knows for sure why they are radicalised like that. And we don't know how to stop it. So, your solution is just to... make it go away by dumping them on an island?

Will that stop other people from becoming radicalised?

Well... Radicalisation happens in shitholes. Banlieu north of paris, jails... This kind of stuff.

[Dolus]

This is what happens when you go to a Radiohead listening party during Ramadan.

[Slant]

Well... Radicalisation happens in shitholes. Banlieu north of paris, jails... This kind of stuff.

Oh, I know about lack of rehabilitation in prisons and downward spirals in crime and all that jazz. But these are people suiciding themselves in a fashion that costs the most human lives. This is atypical for criminals from Europe. I think it must be a lack of education in the poorer districts. You have to be a special kind of stupid to do this shit.

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This is what happens when you go to a Radiohead listening party during Ramadan.

Yes, well Turkey is a radicalised Islamic state soon to be put under the strictest of religious laws. What do you expect?

[Dolus]

Her religion prohibits any sort of violence because that is the way she interprets it.
There are enough Christians who see it as their religious duty to use violence, we've sure had enough attacks on abortion clinics/doctors.

There have been close to 30,000 Islamic terrorist attacks since 9/11. We should compare it to Christians, Hindus and Buddhists.

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/terror-2016.htm

[Deleted]

Oh, I know about lack of rehabilitation in prisons and downward spirals in crime and all that jazz. But these are people suiciding themselves in a fashion that costs the most human lives. This is atypical for criminals from Europe. I think it must be a lack of education in the poorer districts. You have to be a special kind of stupid to do this shit.

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Yes, well Turkey is a radicalised Islamic state soon to be put under the strictest of religious laws. What do you expect?

I fear there is no control of recruitment by radicalised hotheads at the moment, especially in the criminal world.

[bufferunderrun]

Glad you understand the problem. Nobody knows for sure why they are radicalised like that. And we don't know how to stop it. So, your solution is just to... make it go away by dumping them on an island?

Will that stop other people from becoming radicalised?

making example always work, not 100% because there always be a retard, but work and by removing a majority of radicalized you will make it easier to control and intervene, so yes removing them is an effective way to solve the problem and i daresay that by hitting heavy those who are radicalized you are also preventing other muslims who have absolutely nothing to do with the retards from being abused, targeted by racism and in general being slandered.
In the end you are effectively removing the bad apple from the basket.

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Being radicalised doesn't blow up people. Carrying bombs blows up people.
Surveillance is necessary on hotheads. Preventing the organisation of these people is even more important.

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Well... Radicalisation happens in shitholes. Banlieu north of paris, jails... This kind of stuff.

i disagree radicalised peoples have an high chance to blow up peoples and imho they should be removed asap.

[mauserr]

Well, one could say they got culturally enriched. Yes, bring the infraction. I don't care.

[Deleted]

There's a reason why we generally see Portugal as a third-world country though..
No offense, but I don't want my country to be anything like Portugal. No thanks!

You see Portugal as third-world country just because the majority of the slums were demolished, people were integrated and is one of the most safest countries in the world? What?

[Deleted]

making example always work, not 100% because there always be a retard, but work and by removing a majority of radicalized you will make it easier to control and intervene, so yes removing them is an effective way to solve the problem and i daresay that by hitting heavy those who are radicalized you are also preventing other muslims who have absolutely nothing to do with the retards from being abused, targeted by racism and in general being slandered.
In the end you are effectively removing the bad apple from the basket.

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i disagree radicalised peoples have an high chance to blow up peoples and imho they should be removed asap.

We have plenty of radicalised people from a lot of fields. Laws are universal we cant have laws for a specific group of people.

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You see Portugal as third-world country just because the majority of the slums were demolished, people were integrated and is one of the most safest countries in the world? What?

We really can't take down whole suburban realities in cities like Paris or London though. The scale is just different.

[Deleted]

We really can't take down whole suburban realities in cities like Paris or London though. The scale is just different.

Never said was an easy task, but is the needed solution.

[Slant]

making example always work, not 100% because there always be a retard, but work and by removing a majority of radicalized you will make it easier to control and intervene, so yes removing them is an effective way to solve the problem and i daresay that by hitting heavy those who are radicalized you are also preventing other muslims who have absolutely nothing to do with the retards from being abused, targeted by racism and in general being slandered.
In the end you are effectively removing the bad apple from the basket.

Tell me, do you know a country where oppression like that ever worked for a long period of time? I mean you've by now suspended even the pretense of being a democratic country. So we're talking the EU turning into an oppressive authoritarian regime area now.

Why exactly are we fighting ISIS again?

[Renyo]

i disagree radicalised peoples have an high chance to blow up peoples and imho they should be removed asap.

If the chance is really that high I guess some parts of Bremen, the so called "stronghold of Salafism" in Germany, would not exist anymore.
Those Salafists are generally in favor of a strict form of sharia law (there are as many different forms of sharia law as there are interpretations of the Quran and Hadith) but most of them are against violence. Or are those not the radicals you speak of? There is heavy surveillance concerning the salafistic scene in Germany.

(There are also different forms of Salafism, some are 'just' very conservative Muslims etc.)

[ovm33]

Why exactly are we fighting ISIS again?

Because they want to fucking kill you...

I don't understand why us people in the west can't grasp this. It really is as simply as Us vs. Them.

[icausewipes]

Because they want to fucking kill you...

I don't understand why us people in the west can't grasp this. It really is as simply as Us vs. Them.

Who helped create "them"?

[Forogil]

Being radicalised doesn't blow up people. Carrying bombs blows up people.
Surveillance is necessary on hotheads. Preventing the organisation of these people is even more important.

You might have missed the news - but the attack in Nice, which you are in a thread discussing, was primarily done by a truck with a driver deliberately targeting people - not by someone carrying a bomb.

I don't understand why you think that terrorist attacks involve blowing people up, considering that terrorist attacks with guns, trucks, knifes, airplanes have occurred in the western world. (Trucks became popular one or two years ago after Isis made a call for vehicular attacks.) People can even commit genocide with nothing but machetes and hatred - as in Rwanda (not related to religion) - and yesterday a religiously motivated murders was done by strangulation, no weapon is needed for that: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...led-by-brother

The attacker in Nice was not on the list of radicals - so either he was radicalized quickly; which means that the current surveillance isn't enough, or he wasn't radical and this might be a case of non-radical Islamic terrorism, or possibly something else - even if "something else" seems unlikely.

[Independent voter]

Dude lifted.