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  1. #21
    Deleted
    Warlock
    Grimore of Sacrifice damage reduced by 33% for Affliction.
    Mana Tap cost reduced by 17%.
    Master of Disaster now increases Incinerate damage by 3/6/9% (was 4/8/12%).
    Fire and the Flames now reduces Incinerate cast time by 2/4/6% (was 3/6/10%).
    Doom Bolt damage reduced by 15% for Demonology.
    Thal'kiel's Consumption now hits for 6% of pets' max HP (was 10% of current HP).
    Shadowburn damage reduced by 7%.
    Eternal Struggle now reduces damage taken by 3/6/9% (was 10/20/30%).

    Just got posted on wowhead, alongside a few melee buffs by the looks of it, albeit skim-read.

    You lot best be over reacting.

  2. #22
    Well at least affliction is still untouched

    OT though, I've tried pretty much all classes/specs at 110 and I rly enjoy affliction, though my tip for those who disliked it but still wish to play a dot based class is to play unholy DK, no joke ! the spec's changes are brilliant and if you go full dot build with ranged spender you basically become affliction 2.0. it might not be the best dps talents for uh but it's hella fun in bgs/ arena, literally this guy trying to kite me while I'm killing him from 30 yards away, it was hilariously enjoyable.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Turturin the Warlock View Post
    1. No ranged have awesome mobility except for BM hunter, which Blizz doesn't count as ranged.
    I think the complaint is about out of combat travel time, not in combat mobility. Which it's true, Warlocks can't talent for chain Blinks or shift into Ghost Wolf or do whatever to get to that next dungeon trash pack 3 seconds faster. However Mythic+ dungeons aren't Challenge Mode dungeons where those 3 seconds are make or break. At least, I very much hope not. I hated that shit, and by all indications Mythic+ is a lot less tightly tuned.

  4. #24
    Dreadlord FurtyIRL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turturin the Warlock View Post
    1. No ranged have awesome mobility except for BM hunter, which Blizz doesn't count as ranged.
    Wait, what?

    Our damage is fine. It's definitely not top of the heap, but quite a few specs will be nerfed before legion, and it definitely isn't the case that "not top" = not viable. I think that's an exaggeration. For a truly not viable spec, look at spriests.
    Wait, WHAT?

    Putting aside the fact Warlock is the only class in the entire game without a blink or baseline movement speed increase, Shadow Priest is literally the most busted ranged DPS in the game for Legion by a mile.

  5. #25
    No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training…what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. – Socrates

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Creatinebrah View Post
    soul flame can do that when you put it in that specific situation.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirroth View Post
    I think the complaint is about out of combat travel time, not in combat mobility. Which it's true, Warlocks can't talent for chain Blinks or shift into Ghost Wolf or do whatever to get to that next dungeon trash pack 3 seconds faster. However Mythic+ dungeons aren't Challenge Mode dungeons where those 3 seconds are make or break. At least, I very much hope not. I hated that shit, and by all indications Mythic+ is a lot less tightly tuned.
    well sure, out of combat or getting to the next trash pack we are slow. Don't really think that's makes us unviable though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FurtyIRL View Post
    Wait, WHAT?

    Putting aside the fact Warlock is the only class in the entire game without a blink or baseline movement speed increase, Shadow Priest is literally the most busted ranged DPS in the game for Legion by a mile.
    Right. That's why I gave the example of them as truly not viable in mythic dungeons. I don't think warlocks are at that level.

  8. #28
    Here's my take on Afflic, which is a mix of informed Beta watching and crossed fingers hopefulness.

    Pure single target boss fights are a bit limited, both in gameplay and in effectiveness. You'll be doing a lot of filler channeling and all you can do to spice things up is talent Soul Effigy for a second target to roll a few DoTs on. Thankfully, fights like that are scarce these days. Not totally gone, I know Krosus in Nighthold is one, but in the vast minority. Cleave and council fights give Afflic more targets for effective multi-DoTs to increase their damage and complexity. Add fights start triggering your powerful artifact traits that thrive on kills (Reap Souls, Soul Flame, WoC), which gives a whole new dimension to Afflic's performance. I suspect that will also apply to Mythic+ runs, once your keystone is high enough to have a couple zone buffs stacked and trash has become dangerous enough to matter.

    So yeah, Afflic's Patchwerk sims will be terrible. Thankfully those fights are rare in actual play and the spec performs much better in literally every other situation. And yes, the spec does feel more like a mix of BC and Wrath Afflic than the Afflic of Mists or Warlords. I consider that a high mark in its favor.

  9. #29
    Is anyone from MMO forums posting on the official feedback forums (not that it matters anyways for all the response we get)?

    Because we're getting shit on constantly and more voices might make them give some semblance of a shit towards the class

  10. #30
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Destruction is just fine in dungeons, I don't understand how you can claim it's damage is low there, it's one of the better specs for Mythic+. It's not THE best, but it's not weak and unlike most of range - you don't drop dead if you stay in some puddle for an extra millisecond or something looks funny at you.

    Same Spriests and Mages basically pop at a very slightest notice.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    dont forget that the only ability affliction and demo have now that are affected by the green fire is burning rush, and the 2 mounts, meanwhile destro only has incinerate, and cataclysm, as demonfire is green default, aswell as chaos bolt

    so yeah green fire does 0 spells for aff/demo, and only 1 for destro (baseline)
    1 aff/demo, 3 destro talent wise
    and 2 mounts... super sad about it...

    You forgot the orange fire in Demonbolt not turning green with the green fire quest.

  12. #32
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    You forgot the orange fire in Demonbolt not turning green with the green fire quest.
    ...? as i said... they are not affected....
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  13. #33
    I guess I misunderstood with the "baseline" part, since Demonbolt is a talent.

    I'm also pissed to be losing the verdant spheres glyph and mages getting better spheres floating and orbiting around them with their artifact.

  14. #34
    A lot of elements to destruction and affliction were fine before this, I don't know why they felt that they needed to change things just for the sake of change. They could've just refined things, it's sad when you think how many steps have been taken backwards.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Gohzerlock View Post
    A lot of elements to destruction and affliction were fine before this, I don't know why they felt that they needed to change things just for the sake of change. They could've just refined things, it's sad when you think how many steps have been taken backwards.
    Destro seems closer to Warlord's CR/Sac playstyle, the way you can machine gun Chaos Bolts, than it is to Mist's more filler heavy style. Really, it's one of the least changed specs out there, going into the transition to Legion. As for Afflic, I'd disagree vigorously that's it's been "fine" at any recent point. Malefic Grasp was a terrible design, Mists Afflic was entirely about gaming DoT snapshotting mechanics, and Warlords Afflic was lacking in core mechanics with snapshotting gone. Going back to what worked and made the spec fun is exactly the right thing to do.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirroth View Post
    Destro seems closer to Warlord's CR/Sac playstyle, the way you can machine gun Chaos Bolts, than it is to Mist's more filler heavy style. Really, it's one of the least changed specs out there, going into the transition to Legion. As for Afflic, I'd disagree vigorously that's it's been "fine" at any recent point. Malefic Grasp was a terrible design, Mists Afflic was entirely about gaming DoT snapshotting mechanics, and Warlords Afflic was lacking in core mechanics with snapshotting gone. Going back to what worked and made the spec fun is exactly the right thing to do.
    Now you're snapshotting your artifact instead, you've got 2 measly dots and a filler with a single spender based around slow RNG generation.

    I far prefer being balanced around malefic grasp than dots, because at least affliction was really strong single target and with this new design that'll never be the case as we can cleave too much damage with our beefed up dots, so it's back to being a mediocre single target dot spec without burst made mostly for council fights.

    This affliction spec has got to be one of the most passive versions I've played since my beginning the game in vanilla. I'll take mist/cata affliction way over what we have now.

  17. #37
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalkx View Post
    Is anyone from MMO forums posting on the official feedback forums (not that it matters anyways for all the response we get)?

    Because we're getting shit on constantly and more voices might make them give some semblance of a shit towards the class
    Don't know about the others, but I gave up on giving feedback in MOP after I know for a fact that they were given a metric fuckton during the warlock revamp and didn't seem to take any of it onboard.

    Celest-"You just want Fel Flame so you can be overpowered"-alon being one of the main sources of communication also makes me loath to even try.

    I wouldn't be surprised if plenty of others felt like their feedback was falling on deaf ears at best, there were people who tried far harder than me to steer the MOP revamp into a solid direction and again in WOD. WOD still went live with most people I talked to or saw posting feeling like we were getting little to no communication / changes and then massive balancing tweaks, ROF being gutted and serv-serv making it to live.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    I far prefer being balanced around malefic grasp than dots, because at least affliction was really strong single target and with this new design that'll never be the case as we can cleave too much damage with our beefed up dots, so it's back to being a mediocre single target dot spec without burst made mostly for council fights.
    Surely that's nothing bar incomeptence or unwillingness.

    Affliction has tended to be an incredibly strong ST dps spec long before MG was added. My memory is foggy but

    TBC it was optimal for a good chunk of raiding before switching to the SB-spam spec, pretty sure that wasn't until BT or mid-Hyjaal for me.
    WOTLK it was strong for a good chunk of raiding, including 5 dot naxx being pretty fun.
    Cata was a mixed bag, but from what I remember affliction was pretty strong ST, demo just shone on some fights mechanically and became very strong after MWC iirc?

    There's no reason affliction shouldn't be able to deliver strong ST damage bar the developers feeling that the spec should be punished in one of the most core gameplay aspects for daring to have a niche that it excells in. For the last few expansions it feels like they've been trying to prevent affliction shining on multidot fights by various throttles like MG and the spec has still always been great there.

    Dots being free for MG-dependency isn't a problem. The developers mindset might be though.

    I definitely agree with you on MOP / Cata affliction being better. WOTLK and Cata are easily my favorite design periods, I'm even tempted to say I'd take TBC over some of the modern builds. MOP feels like it threw the baby out with the bathwater, the soulshard system needed a revamp but they changed far too much for the sake of change imo.
    I wish they'd just plugged WOD's SB:Haunt into the Cata system or never made SS's a damage dealing factor. The most interesting uses of soulburn have always been the modifiers to non-damage dealing spells imo, SB:Port, SB:Curses and SB:Pet etc. I wish they'd filled out our utility toolkit by making soulshards something we used for dealing damage on the move or the myriad other problems people moan about - we've had some interesting SB abilities but they never stand a chance for the most part because they're competing with the core dps output that shard dependent haunt became.
    Last edited by mmoc1571eb5575; 2016-07-17 at 08:36 AM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    I guess I misunderstood with the "baseline" part, since Demonbolt is a talent.

    I'm also pissed to be losing the verdant spheres glyph and mages getting better spheres floating and orbiting around them with their artifact.
    Well, In the expansion of class fantasy. Warlocks, who used to be mages, can't retain the aesthetics of blood mages (who were basically destro locks). Can't have meta, because of demon hunters, and alot of our minor glyphs are just negated by GoSac lol... So aesthetically we're pretty damn boring in legion.

  19. #39
    Affliction feels right.. it feels like an actual DoT spec again.

  20. #40
    I like how every build has warlock nerfs man we must be gods in high tier because if we are not than someone deserves to get fired for their tuning. I think it's poor design to have mythic plus be a huge part of end game yet you have mobs not having enough hp so burst aoe look better or classes being too slow to keep up or bosses not living long enough there is a reason why all the major warlocks are depressed about playing any of the lock specs because they have a ton of flaws.
    Last edited by Fearsom1992; 2016-07-17 at 12:20 PM.

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