[Enhancement] Future Legion Resources

[Taeldorian]

I think this was only speculative.

Edit- Whoops, nvm.

The nerfs to our main abilities like SS and LL arent that bad, although I dont see why LL was nerfed. Im not sure about anything else, have to ask @wordup what he thinks, hes the pro here.

[wordup]

The nerfs seem fairly heavy handed triple hitting Stormstrike not only at the base, but the Artifact multiplier, and Raging Storms alongside a couple of extra hits here and there. These are the kind of tuning changes that should come earlier rather than <4 days before the patch goes live so they can be seen in a real environment.

[Gungnir]

The nerfs seem fairly heavy handed triple hitting Stormstrike not only at the base, but the Artifact multiplier, and Raging Storms alongside a couple of extra hits here and there. These are the kind of tuning changes that should come earlier rather than <4 days before the patch goes live so they can be seen in a real environment.

So.. they're essentially doing much of what they've done the last 3 expansions then?
Guessing that Enhance wasn't powerful to the extent that the nerfs were needed.

[Karlz0rz]

The nerfs seem a little heavy, I have to admit. But as long as I can stay in the middle somewhere, then I'll be happy.

[Deleted]

So.. they're essentially doing much of what they've done the last 3 expansions then?
Guessing that Enhance were powerful to the extent that the nerfs were needed.

If you mean 3 builds ago or so then yeah, far from it at this point

[Xanda]

Well at least on live the only nerfs are the 5% from SS and lava lash(and CL). On beta things are much more harsher

This premise makes me want to believe

Note that this is the tuning we're doing for 7.0.3 launch, but we will of course adjust after launch if needed. The goal is for all classes and specs to be viable, so if any prove not to be, rest assured that we will continue iterating.

[Taeldorian]

So.. they're essentially doing much of what they've done the last 3 expansions then?
Guessing that Enhance wasn't powerful to the extent that the nerfs were needed.

Eh, Blizzard does this a lot and not just with enh shamans, not just with shamans, not even with class balance. The people on the official forums call it the Blizzard pendulum affect, where they only go to extremes in terms of nerfs, buffs, removing stuff or adding stuff, etc. I see it a lot now that I know to look for it. Im assuming if were bad we will get buffed again, but not during pre patch. So I dont think we are going to see any buffs or any more nerfs until pre patch is over, unless they decide to balance during pre patch.

I seriously hope they dont do anything during the pre patch, if they balance based on that, things are going to go down the drain just like the WoD pre patch and classes after launch.

Nvm, what Xanda quoted above from Blizzard gives me hope that they are really focused on this now. Ill put some faith in the balancing department.

[nazrakin]

Well at least on live the only nerfs are the 5% from SS and lava lash(and CL). On beta things are much more harsher

This premise makes me want to believe

Note that this is the tuning we're doing for 7.0.3 launch, but we will of course adjust after launch if needed. The goal is for all classes and specs to be viable, so if any prove not to be, rest assured that we will continue iterating.

Its weird that they say that when over half the enh nerfs are to traits.

[Paula Deen]

Note that this is the tuning we're doing for 7.0.3 launch, but we will of course adjust after launch if needed. The goal is for all classes and specs to be viable, so if any prove not to be, rest assured that we will continue iterating.

Don't believe this bullshit. Myself and many other Elemental Shamans were personally reassured by Celestalon with these very same words in WoD Beta. It never got fixed, as a matter of fact rather than fix the issues they forced us to use things that made it worse. I am not TOO concerned right now because Enhancement was in a really great spot, outside of surviability, and these changes don't seem TOO bad.

[Gungnir]

Its weird that they say that when over half the enh nerfs are to traits.

This is my reaction aswell.
Why are they toting this as prepatch balancing when 90% of the adjustments are done to crunch artifact traits?

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

so shamans are going to be lackluster once again? or are they not that bad as far as nerfs go?, would honestly like one expansion where we dont generally suck ass

[Emophia]

Eh, Blizzard does this a lot and not just with enh shamans, not just with shamans, not even with class balance. The people on the official forums call it the Blizzard pendulum affect, where they only go to extremes in terms of nerfs, buffs, removing stuff or adding stuff, etc. I see it a lot now that I know to look for it. Im assuming if were bad we will get buffed again, but not during pre patch. So I dont think we are going to see any buffs or any more nerfs until pre patch is over, unless they decide to balance during pre patch.

I seriously hope they dont do anything during the pre patch, if they balance based on that, things are going to go down the drain just like the WoD pre patch and classes after launch.

Nvm, what Xanda quoted above from Blizzard gives me hope that they are really focused on this now. Ill put some faith in the balancing department.

Blizzard just doesn't know how to balance things gently, they go too far always either too good or too bad.

You can see the same thing with talents, like monk's chi orbit, it was by far the best and passive, so they nerfed, which was needed, but they did it by 1/2 to make it infinitely worse than the other 2 and completely laughable garbage.

They're always too heavy handed, no sense of middle grounds.

[Taeldorian]

so shamans are going to be lackluster once again? or are they not that bad as far as nerfs go?, would honestly like one expansion where we dont generally suck ass

No, we dont suck ass. The nerfs were probably too heavy handed as Wordup stated. We will see where were at when the pre patch launches. I wouldnt judge how good or bad any class is during the pre patch though, as things are always extremely unbalanced and chaotic.

Those with beta will be able to provide the feedback needed since beta doesnt close down until launch or a few days before.

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard just doesn't know how to balance things gently, they go too far always either too good or too bad.

You can see the same thing with talents, like monk's chi orbit, it was by far the best and passive, so they nerfed, which was needed, but they did it by 1/2 to make it infinitely worse than the other 2 and completely laughable garbage.

They're always too heavy handed, no sense of middle grounds.

Yeah, they really dont have a middle ground for anything. Been that way for a while, just became more apparent in Mop to wod and wod to legion.

[Deleted]

So.. they're essentially doing much of what they've done the last 3 expansions then?
Guessing that Enhance wasn't powerful to the extent that the nerfs were needed.

Same happened before WOD. Enhance was in a good place, but their damage got nerfed by over 20% in the last days of beta. Resulting in broken damage where other specs were over 30% ahead on single target.

History repeating itself. The doom wlves nerf itself is crazy alone. It nerfed our only aoe CD by 60%...

Our AOE will be extremely weak.

- - - Updated - - -

Well at least on live the only nerfs are the 5% from SS and lava lash(and CL). On beta things are much more harsher

This premise makes me want to believe

Note that this is the tuning we're doing for 7.0.3 launch, but we will of course adjust after launch if needed. The goal is for all classes and specs to be viable, so if any prove not to be, rest assured that we will continue iterating.

Well thats what they always say. Thats nothing new.

[Ranmauri]

How harsh are these nerfs, really? To me it looks like the Stormstrike damage reductions come out to about 10-15% overall, which reduces our overall DPS by roughly 5% (given that SS is effectively, what, 40% of our DPS?), Doom Vortex is less reliable (but it was only about 2% of our DPS at best, so....), and Crash Lightning is more AoE focused now. The nerf to Alpha Wolf is the most painful thing to me, given that it seems clear that this was meant to "encourage" its use as an AoE tool as opposed to a single-target DPS increase. It's hamfisted and inelegant, especially since the community has suggested simply making it only activate on 2+ targets, but it's really the only one I can see as being legitimately overzealous. Am I just being too forgiving, or what?

tl;dr: what's the math on these changes, and how bad are they, really?

[nazrakin]

Overall, its ~10% st nerf if you are using CS. Not sure of the exact numbers but I imagine its even worst for AE which is already pretty bad and propped up by Alpha wolves and the st dmg from increased SS spam.

[Deleted]

Seems a bit much, especially considering how other top performing specs are relatively unchanged.

Ah well, Blizzard delivering after all.

[Shadow Fox]

Seems a bit much, especially considering how other top performing specs are relatively unchanged.

Ah well, Blizzard delivering after all.

Enhancement Shaman, WW Monk, Demon Hunter, and UH+Frost DK's are the top DPS'ers for ST+Cleave, yeah? (Prior to this build)

[grexly75]

Not really noticed the nerfs though that could be that I am 832 item level and level 12 in artifact knowledge.. I tend to wreck most mobs but that could also be due to the fact that I am using the 1200 Agility Elixir and I do have enchants on rings, neck and cloak and I have 5 of the 8 Set Class Hall Shaman gear as well.. And one of my artifact runes gives me a 40% boost to healing surge.. But I I am seeing nice numbers quite often since one of my openers is Doom Winds..

[Deleted]

The nerf seem more heavy handed than harsh - let us wait for Wordup to come with more precise numbers, but at first glance it seems that we may have moved from top tier to border between top and upper middle of the pack. Every nerf hurts and makes people angry (also unnecessary and heavy handed nerfs like this one) but the sky is definitely not falling.