Retribution is SO BAD AND DULL

[oplawlz]

Hey, hey... stop the lore mumbo jumbo. Its besides the point. This isn't faction wars. Its a class design topic.

Pretty much a majority of Retribution players and neutral players have expressed how dull and boring Ret is. There is no denying that. Even if a few can still manage to find some enjoyment on it, the fact that it is incredibly deficient can't stop beeing mentioned to Blizzard. They made a very poor effort and they must be made aware of that until they rectify the mistakes.

Rogues are in the same boat, bliz just gets stubborn about some things. I'm sure we'll get some snarky comment from them soon that it's not really their design players don't like it's that they're doing it wrong.

[Deleted]

Rogues are in the same boat, bliz just gets stubborn about some things. I'm sure we'll get some snarky comment from them soon that it's not really their design players don't like it's that they're doing it wrong.

I would already be pretty satisfied if they told me how the Ret rotation is supposed to flow, because its all over the place with the 2 contradictory mechanics. Not to mention how the cooldown on execution sentence is completely nonsensical and the appauling talent tree.
And yeah i heard Rogues are not doing so well either.

[Deleted]

hey, hey... Stop the lore mumbo jumbo. Its besides the point. This isn't faction wars. Its a class design topic.

Pretty much a majority of retribution players and neutral players have expressed how dull and unsatisfying ret is to play in legion. There is no denying that. Even if a few can still manage to find some enjoyment on it, the fact that it is incredibly deficient can't stop beeing mentioned to blizzard. They made a very poor effort and they must be made aware of that until they rectify the mistakes.
Heck, a roll back to wod ret would be preferable at this point.

yes. Thank you for understanding

[Spiral Mage]

Welcome to Legion, where no feedback was listened to and classes were left decimated. The best part is, the majority of the player base doesn't realize what's about to happen this Tuesday. 20-30% at best, read the forums, or read anything about the game at all .. and about half of that or less even have Beta Access. Wait until -everyone- sees what they've done to Ret, and every other class in the game.

It's gonna be fuckin' amazing. BLIZ is gonna see the recourse of what they've done before very long.

The only thing I really did like about Ret', is having the option to use Consecration again. Well, I mean and the new animation for Templer's Verdict is pretty nice.

BLIZ seems to think cool animations will save otherwise horrifically bad game design. Let's see if they're right, shall we?

[Deleted]

Welcome to Legion, where no feedback was listened to and classes were left decimated. The best part is, the majority of the player base doesn't realize what's about to happen this Tuesday. 20-30% at best, read the forums, or read anything about the game at all .. and about half of that or less even have Beta Access. Wait until -everyone- sees what they've done to Ret, and every other class in the game.

It's gonna be fuckin' amazing. BLIZ is gonna see the recourse of what they've done before very long.

The only thing I really did like about Ret', is having the option to use Consecration again. Well, I mean and the new animation for Templer's Verdict is pretty nice.

BLIZ seems to think cool animations will save otherwise horrifically bad game design. Let's see if they're right, shall we?

I hope you're right. I hope people will speak up following tuesday's patch and that they will finally listen. For now I'm doing my daily tweet @Watcher @CM_lore and @WarcraftDevs.

[UR1L]

BLIZ seems to think cool animations will save otherwise horrifically bad game design. Let's see if they're right, shall we?

Looking cool is the ONLY reason Paladins have ever been popular in the first place. Ever since Vanilla Ret and Prot have been nothing but a poor mans Warriors yet people still played them because they're cool. Paladins often get the coolest tier sets too so it's almost impossible to look bad as a Paladin. On top of that, ask just about any random pleb Fury warrior why they're rerolling that in Legion and they'll say it's the animations.

So yes cool animations can totally make the masses like Ret, because the majority of players don't give a shit how we perform in raids or high end pvp.

[Aerknard]

Looking cool is the ONLY reason Paladins have ever been popular in the first place. Ever since Vanilla Ret and Prot have been nothing but a poor mans Warriors yet people still played them because they're cool. Paladins often get the coolest tier sets too so it's almost impossible to look bad as a Paladin. On top of that, ask just about any random pleb Fury warrior why they're rerolling that in Legion and they'll say it's the animations.

So yes cool animations can totally make the masses like Ret, because the majority of players don't give a shit how we perform in raids or high end pvp.

I must admit it that I love flashy things, I believe most of humans love flashy things. Because Flashy things easily sell than standard boring crap. The problem is the aftertaste. Let's just say there is a gourmet. This gourmet love fried chicken. In the competition that the gourmet act as the judge, there are 2 participants. The 1st participant fried chicken is horrible but taste like any normal fried chicken u can find in any junk food shop. The 2nd participant fried chicken is shiny like gold that even only a glance will make u drool with the taste comparable to sh1t. If the gourmet never meet these 2 participants before and never taste their cooking before, the gourmet will sure try the shiny gold drooling fried chicken, and thats ret paladin.

The reason blizzard aim for new casual player which proven by garrison in wod and garrison in legion (youtube.com/watch?v=q4HUCTJ16GA) because they don't know, and always-always pick the shiny gold 1 instead of the horrible looking 1.

[Sorshen]

Worst talent tree by far. New mastery is a weak attempt at Arms. Clunky gameplay w/o high level artifact. FeelsBadMan.

[Deleted]

Worst talent tree by far. New mastery is a weak attempt at Arms. Clunky gameplay w/o high level artifact. FeelsBadMan.

Honestly it feels like the guy that was behind arms warrior was also behind ret. 2 horrible specs that have now been made to have the same core ideas (Colussus smash window) and ret even got "Retaliation" in the talent tree... like wtf?

[UR1L]

The reason blizzard aim for new casual player which proven by garrison in wod and garrison in legion (youtube.com/watch?v=q4HUCTJ16GA) because they don't know, and always-always pick the shiny gold 1 instead of the horrible looking 1.

Yeeeaaaah that guy is so full of shit I can smell it all the way from Finland. Had to stop watching at around 6 minutes because he started sounding like a baby with a tantrum.

Blizzard is very well known for taking ideas that might be utter shit and refining it to make it better. That's exactly what they've done with Order Halls vs Garrisons. The World Quests are a good example of something bad, namely early MoP daily quests, and making it into something more interesting. In WoD you spent way too much time on garrisons, up to a point where you didn't really need to go outside even for gathering. Order Halls on the other hand are less than 5 minute trips in and then you're off into the world to do something else. In WoD the facebook game was full of missions where you had to return every 30-60 minutes to be efficient with it whereas in Legion the Scouting Board has missions that are hours long. People will whine about having to do it because of Class & Order Hall Campaings but honestly, gating it behind the scouting board is a convenient way of slowing down progression so people don't rush through it in a day.

The follower system is also cool since you actually do go on quests(class/order hall campaings) with them and you can assign some of them to accompany you all day. I don't know about you but I think it's cool to have the son of Turalyon, who I met day 1 in TBC, hanging around with me instead of some random cat npc I found in a cave.


I find it really funny how the two biggest complaints about Legion I've heard are both completely bullshit. Garrisons are not back in Legion and the prune did not ruin the game. Yet these kind of youtubers still spew shit out of their mouths about it as a desperate grab for views.

[minteK917]

Rogues are in the same boat, bliz just gets stubborn about some things. I'm sure we'll get some snarky comment from them soon that it's not really their design players don't like it's that they're doing it wrong.

To be fair (i play both ret and rogue). Rogue and Ret have mechanical problems, the slight difference is that rogue are competitive with those mechanical problems. Ret is trash even with them. Thats true for PVE and PVP. I think both classes fantasy are fine in the visuals now. Ret always been fine since wotlk in that regard, rogue has been fixed for legion. Fan of knives looks cool, shuriken storm, all the melee attack animation /outlaw melee swing looks like it should, all of it looks how it should.

Assa has the least mechanical problems in legion, stats are kinda weird and dot melee might not be for everyone. This would be fine if the other 2 sepcs didnt have problems.

Outlaw is just too random and fishing for buffs. Which is bad on its own.

Sub is just a mess with symbol of death and no shadow dance bar.

[Theholypally]

5hp, dump with judgement buff, rinse and repeat.

[Vpuh]

Just thought I should throw in my two cents.
The things they did with Retribution in Legion is making switch mains to a ret paladin. The spec is FINALLY playable and fun.
So not everyone shares the opinion that it is dull.

Why everyone who says that spec is fun cant explain what exactly the "fun" ?

[Varanus]

I have to say, I'm not entirely sure why all the hate about ret gameplay in Legion. I've been maining a ret pally since the day I started playing in BC, and I have to say Legion ret(based off ptr testing) is probably the most fun I've had with it. I honestly don't find it dull in the slightest.

My only real issue are some of the talents. Specifically consecration and divine steed. Both being baseline for prot, and then giving them to ret as talents, seem a bit...lazy(?) I guess. And the level 100 talents are a bit uninteresting imo. I'll likely never pick holy wrath. I'm sure it has it's uses, and is probably really strong when you're a second way from dying, but I don't know, I just don't like it. Divine purpose? I'm prone to having bad rng(my record 26 arcane blasts on my mage, plus all the the other spells woven between without proccing missles once), so I try to avoid it when possible. And crusade really just changes avenging wrath into an almost inperceptibly(gameplay wise) different ability.

[UR1L]

I have to say, I'm not entirely sure why all the hate about ret gameplay in Legion. I've been maining a ret pally since the day I started playing in BC, and I have to say Legion ret(based off ptr testing) is probably the most fun I've had with it. I honestly don't find it dull in the slightest.

My only real issue are some of the talents. Specifically consecration and divine steed. Both being baseline for prot, and then giving them to ret as talents, seem a bit...lazy(?) I guess. And the level 100 talents are a bit uninteresting imo. I'll likely never pick holy wrath. I'm sure it has it's uses, and is probably really strong when you're a second way from dying, but I don't know, I just don't like it. Divine purpose? I'm prone to having bad rng(my record 26 arcane blasts on my mage, plus all the the other spells woven between without proccing missles once), so I try to avoid it when possible. And crusade really just changes avenging wrath into an almost inperceptibly(gameplay wise) different ability.

I actually like Divine Purpose in Legion because of it's interaction with Justicar's Vengeance. It's quite satisfying to throw the odd JV in for a bigger number with added healing benefits. But Crusade is also quite fun because of how fast it becomes. Going Judge->JV->WoA->JV is pretty cool and then you have all the haste in the world to make the rest of "AW" a lot more interesting than it's original version. I'd like DP to be buffed a bit so it's closer to Crusade but I fully expect Crusade to be the best talent for DPS since it's not a passive.

You're right about Holy Wrath though, I don't see myself ever picking that talent. But that doesn't really bother me since every spec in the game has talents you pretty much never use.

[Deleted]

I have much greater hate for the other rows than the 100 row, even though it only has two talents. Divine Purpose and Crusade are fine talents.

Edit: Don't get me started on how fucking retarded Seal of Light is.

[minteK917]

Don't get me started on how fucking retarded Seal of Light is.

But why!!! You dont wanna spend 5 holy power to still run slower then a druid lol????????

[Ealyssa]

5hp, dump with judgement buff, rinse and repeat.

actually totally false and depending on cooldown.

You can judge at 3, 4 or 5 HP depending on spells CDs. Thats' where the difference between bad and good ret will show : judgement delays.

[Deleted]

But why!!! You dont wanna spend 5 holy power to still run slower then a druid lol????????

I don't even know what they were thinking. The effect is worse than Pursuit of Justice and on top of that it has a huge cost.

[Aerknard]

Yeeeaaaah that guy is so full of shit I can smell it all the way from Finland. Had to stop watching at around 6 minutes because he started sounding like a baby with a tantrum.

Blizzard is very well known for taking ideas that might be utter shit and refining it to make it better. That's exactly what they've done with Order Halls vs Garrisons. The World Quests are a good example of something bad, namely early MoP daily quests, and making it into something more interesting. In WoD you spent way too much time on garrisons, up to a point where you didn't really need to go outside even for gathering. Order Halls on the other hand are less than 5 minute trips in and then you're off into the world to do something else. In WoD the facebook game was full of missions where you had to return every 30-60 minutes to be efficient with it whereas in Legion the Scouting Board has missions that are hours long. People will whine about having to do it because of Class & Order Hall Campaings but honestly, gating it behind the scouting board is a convenient way of slowing down progression so people don't rush through it in a day.

The follower system is also cool since you actually do go on quests(class/order hall campaings) with them and you can assign some of them to accompany you all day. I don't know about you but I think it's cool to have the son of Turalyon, who I met day 1 in TBC, hanging around with me instead of some random cat npc I found in a cave.


I find it really funny how the two biggest complaints about Legion I've heard are both completely bullshit. Garrisons are not back in Legion and the prune did not ruin the game. Yet these kind of youtubers still spew shit out of their mouths about it as a desperate grab for views.

Sorry if u don't understand my point. My point that time is Ret will surely attract new and casual player. But not until they realize ret sloppy-ness by comparing with other class. The Legion Order Hall concept is about the same with Garrison. The difference is u move ur @$$ together instead of just waiting to proof further blizzard instead of expecting cooperation between players choose to help the player play more to the solo content which by my standard usually apply to new and casual player.