1. #7761
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    If I understand you correctly, it's like Blizzard doesn't follow it's own established rules. O_o
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  2. #7762
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    If I understand you correctly, it's like Blizzard doesn't follow it's own established rules. O_o
    I don't think they have rules, I think sometimes they just do things "because this should go well." I mean, they spent this entire expansion designing us a brand new system...only to have in PvP, the one place it matters, that system become irrelevant and basically go back to what we have in Live, which is essentially "hit buttons when they're up."

    Except now we have the worst mobility in the game. Also we're one of the only classes to get -15% primary stat in PvP. What the hell. That's -damage and healing. Yet randomly we get bonus 25% to all secondary stats except our...worst secondary stat...mastery...which is -75%. Wat.

  3. #7763
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruiizu View Post
    I don't think they have rules, I think sometimes they just do things "because this should go well." I mean, they spent this entire expansion designing us a brand new system...only to have in PvP, the one place it matters, that system become irrelevant and basically go back to what we have in Live, which is essentially "hit buttons when they're up."

    Except now we have the worst mobility in the game. Also we're one of the only classes to get -15% primary stat in PvP. What the hell. That's -damage and healing. Yet randomly we get bonus 25% to all secondary stats except our...worst secondary stat...mastery...which is -75%. Wat.
    Again like I said theydon't follow the *rules* they establish. I mean they went on if classes had low mobility they'd be compensated for better damage(That's stupid logic but their logic nonetheless). Sooo now they didn't really compensate therefore they don't follow their own *rules*.


    In short: Blizzard is doing massive brainfarts and don't realize the wtf moments.
    Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2016-07-17 at 02:48 AM. Reason: Terrrible at sentence structure
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  4. #7764
    To be fair, I read all the pvP templates for all specs and all were severly nerfed, not only Retribution. Some of them even said "All damage reduced 25%" added to skill nerfs like ret.

  5. #7765
    Quote Originally Posted by ruiizu View Post
    I don't think they have rules, I think sometimes they just do things "because this should go well." I mean, they spent this entire expansion designing us a brand new system...only to have in PvP, the one place it matters, that system become irrelevant and basically go back to what we have in Live, which is essentially "hit buttons when they're up."

    Except now we have the worst mobility in the game. Also we're one of the only classes to get -15% primary stat in PvP. What the hell. That's -damage and healing. Yet randomly we get bonus 25% to all secondary stats except our...worst secondary stat...mastery...which is -75%. Wat.
    Because of "Class Fantasy". Ret use 1 2hand, Arm use 1 2hand, both of them are plates.
    Arms got almost the same template as ret got, only without -15% primary stat. In the end is better to take arms instead of Ret. Since ret "Class Fantasy" about support dps. That means lower dps so that it can't perform as well as DPS and lower heal so that it can't perform as well as Support. I'm sure in the future instead of only Tank, DPS, and Support, wow dev will add a new role which is Specialization, just like HOTS.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Anardel View Post
    To be fair, I read all the pvP templates for all specs and all were severly nerfed, not only Retribution. Some of them even said "All damage reduced 25%" added to skill nerfs like ret.
    Not all of them are severely nerf, Frost DK got buff 120% for their stamina and only 1 skill get the nerf, even better the skill which got the nerf is 5min cooldown which not use often.

    - - - Updated - - -

    DK got bad Mobility and decent Gap closer. Ret got bad mobility and the worst gap closer in entire legion class which is no gap closer. And here the DK got 120% stamina instead of Ret, soon they will call it "Class Fantasy". That proof wowdev incompetency regarding pvp design. I should have realized that wow never good regarding pvp system. I should never trust any of wowdev shitty promise regarding pvp design.

  6. #7766
    I can't fathom why anyone at Blizzard thinks we have enough utility and support to warrant a hybrid tax.

  7. #7767
    Quote Originally Posted by Daralii View Post
    I can't fathom why anyone at Blizzard thinks we have enough utility and support to warrant a hybrid tax.
    I'll take; shorter CD on HoF with 2 charges, Light of the Protector (Prot pvp talent), Hand of the Protector (Prot lvl75 talent), Touch of Karma (from monks), and Retribution aura (Because its ours!!) before I would except a small hybrid tax.

  8. #7768
    Quote Originally Posted by Thete View Post
    It's progress - everyone is going to die; 100% guaranteed. It doesn't alter the fact that placing it on someone who will die to something silly, which is not a predictable event, will reduce your damage while you live on through no fault of your own.

    Of course nobody is going to put it on someone who dies in the first wave every single time.
    we have retribution to counter that loss

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aerknard View Post

    Not all of them are severely nerf, Frost DK got buff 120% for their stamina and only 1 skill get the nerf, even better the skill which got the nerf is 5min cooldown which not use often.
    they skill they nerfed was extremely powerful and in pvp was leading to their number 1 damage and 1 shotting ppl. its a big nerf 5 min cd or not. plus frost is the slowest spec behind divine steed ret with shittier healing.

    these aren't nerfs to current beta either, these are numbers that ppl are currently playing with now, we just never knew what they were unless told.

  9. #7769
    The Patient
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    Does anyone know if the PVP stat templates have been active on the PTR? I've been PvPing on the PTR and Ret damage doesn't seem that bad at all. (Granted, I've been using the 4pc set bonus for 3 charges on wings. )

  10. #7770
    Quote Originally Posted by garonne View Post
    we have retribution to counter that loss
    Blizzard has said that Retribution is a perk, not something we're balanced around. Blessing of Might we are being balanced around having up. To be more specific, we're being balanced around having X Mights, but X != 3.

    --- edit ---

    Originally Posted by Celestalon
    Retribution Paladins will be balanced with the expectation that they’re using 3 total Greater Blessings (not necessarily just Might).
    Source

    Originally Posted by Celestalon

    Quote Originally Posted by Drownlord
    Is "Retribution" part of Retri's DPS, or is it just some kind of "bonus"?
    Bonus.
    Source
    Last edited by Alindra; 2016-07-17 at 07:45 PM.

  11. #7771
    So I was in Thete's stream and one of the things I brought up was Divine Purpose not Interacting with Seal of Light at all for ret pallys. If you have a DP proc and cast SoL it will consume your HP, but not the DP proc. If you have no HP at all SoL is simply grayed out even if you have a DP proc up. Has anyone else tested this combo and experienced the same thing? It would sort of be a niche thing, but it may be useful on very heavy movement fights where you need movement speed more than once every 45 seconds. I'm not sure if this interaction is a bug, or if it's simply because SoL is a variable amount of HP cost rather than a set amount such as TV being 3 or JV being 5 ect. Overall it would end up being a dps loss since crusade will be our best lvl 100 talent, and even if it was not it would be a loss of damage from not being used on JV. Not being able to get to your targets is also a giant dps loss as well though.

  12. #7772
    Quote Originally Posted by Alindra View Post
    Blizzard has said that Retribution is a perk, not something we're balanced around. Blessing of Might we are being balanced around having up. To be more specific, we're being balanced around having X Mights, but X != 3.

    --- edit ---

    Originally Posted by Celestalon
    Retribution Paladins will be balanced with the expectation that they’re using 3 total Greater Blessings (not necessarily just Might).
    Source

    Originally Posted by Celestalon



    Bonus.
    Source
    yup, which is a good thing. meaning, thats free damage when someone dies. if someone dies with our might buff, the buff goes off and we get free damage = countering the loss.

  13. #7773
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    Quote Originally Posted by garonne View Post
    we have retribution to counter that loss
    In theory it could, but you'd have to wipe pretty quickly afterwards for that to be the case. However, Blizzard have been quite clear that is doesn't and isn't intended to compensate for that.

  14. #7774
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    It's not necessarily a compensation. As Blizzard said a bonus, bonus doesn't really translate to compensation.
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  15. #7775
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    bonus doesn't really translate to compensation.
    Introducing the new CEO class which always gets buffed no matter whether it's doing well or poorly, never gets blamed for wipes, and escapes repair costs with its Golden Parachute passive.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  16. #7776
    Admittedly in RBGs you can expect that Retribution will be up like 50% of the time, so we have that going for us. In Arena I wouldn't expect it to be useful at all, but we probably needed the most aid in RBGs.

  17. #7777
    Quote Originally Posted by Alindra View Post
    Originally Posted by Celestalon
    Retribution Paladins will be balanced with the expectation that they’re using 3 total Greater Blessings (not necessarily just Might).
    Source
    That's just dumb...

    Balancing a class in a way where they will end up bottom of the DPS just because they provide a buff to 3 players that increases their DPS must be the least amount of fun you could bring to any class. No matter how good it may be from a overall perspective.

  18. #7778
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    That's just dumb...

    Balancing a class in a way where they will end up bottom of the DPS just because they provide a buff to 3 players that increases their DPS must be the least amount of fun you could bring to any class. No matter how good it may be from a overall perspective.
    that statement means that we are not balanced around having 3 mights, (and to some knowledge or speculation, this actually means we are balanced around having ONE GBoM, when we CAN cast 3) and since each might is 3%ish dps, if ret is the "lowest damage" because 3% or so of your dps is gone via a buff, then ret would still be the lowest with or without might and GBoM would not change that.

    In reality GBoM can only really increase ret's damage since it is more likely ret will NOT be #1 in damage. (1 dps spec for the class vs 30+ specs to compete with, some of which those specs have only 1 class attached to them) so in if they truely do balance ret around NOT having 3 GBoM, thats only a bigger benefit to you.

  19. #7779
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    That's just dumb...

    Balancing a class in a way where they will end up bottom of the DPS just because they provide a buff to 3 players that increases their DPS must be the least amount of fun you could bring to any class. No matter how good it may be from a overall perspective.
    It's not even fun, it's forgettable and will not matter much and if someone with the greater blessing goes down, it will still be there but in the end it will be a DPS loss of sorts. It's been discussed a lot but if by 7.1 it's removed, I will just say Blizzard you failed...like really bad.


    And here comes our lord and savior Reg /s
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  20. #7780
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    and those PVP templates have been active basically all of beta, and ret still does very very very good damage. they nerf basically everyone's damage in PVP to compensate for the immense damage we do outside of PVP basically.

    - - - Updated - - -

    and one more thing, if your putting your GBoMs on people are are always being killed, then thats your own damn fault. the greater blessing system only adds more to the skill ceiling in terms of the ret's damage. whos better for which fight? when do you need those mights really, who in your raid is worth putting it on ECT ECT.

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