[HOLY] Holy Sh*t!: Legion Edition

[Taeldorian]

At least this means you won't be crusading the Holy Paladin forums anymore...

Well Ill be honest, Resto shaman is definitely good. I understand if he wants to switch, I did. I mean, Ive always played shaman and paladin, theyre the only classes I really know, so Ill still be playing paladin it just wont be my main.

Resto is better in pretty much every aspect, it also has better raid CDS, better utility, better mobility, etc. I could easily see it as the #1 or #2 best healer in Legion for raiding. Not saying Hpal is absolute garbage, but Id pick resto shaman over it for sure.

[EzG]

What fucking game are you playing lol? Shamans have been in top 2 hps along with druid during pretty much every mythic test so far. A paladin will never outperform a shaman if they are of equal skill and the shaman will always be more useful due to utility.

Always? What fucking game are you playing? Give me at least a viable number of examples of one class always being better than the other on BETA instead of me trusting you are the all knowing, because I have definitely beaten shamans and other healers and also lost to those same healers over the course of testing. I was using those numbers completely in a theoretical kind of way, in no way were those even close to actual numbers or indicative of future numbers, are you so stupid not to realize this? Read the post that I quoted, then piece one and one together and realize that I'm just asking when does utility overreach hps. He said and I quote, "h pallys are good...but shamans...are better utility," which was paraphrased but you get the point. I'm not saying hps for shamans are bad or good, I have yet to see several or dozens of consistent charts over the course of limited competitive raid testing that would prove one class is completely better than others; hell it isn't even live yet.

- - - Updated - - -

Are we really basing shaman strength on normal mode logs? Every mythic test i've been to with a top tier shaman (someone like gradiff) he was the highest hps because of how busted their mastery is on prog.

I also don't disagree that we can start ranking tank healing as a strong trait that holy paladins have. I can agree with that. But that's quite a bit different to resto shamans having the highest raid healing potential right now, on top of the best healer utility. This is also somewhat ignoring that classes like mistweaver monk and holy priest can also offer competitive tank hps.

Btw i'm not even saying paladin is bad here, i'm merely saying resto shaman is just a better class overall. This problem really isn't unique to holy paladin, as every healer in the game is kinda just worse than shaman.

I'm not basing numbers off of normal testing. It was purely a theoretical question about utility vs hps to a degree.

[Unir]

It looks like the final tuning pass is now done.

WYSIWYG: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...7154889?page=1

[Deleted]

It looks like the final tuning pass is now done.

WYSIWYG: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...7154889?page=1

That seems like tuning for 7.0.3 so I would assume it is mainly intended towards level 100 content and not 110. Or am I just stupid and completely reading it wrong?

[EzG]

That seems like tuning for 7.0.3 so I would assume it is mainly intended towards level 100 content and not 110. Or am I just stupid and completely reading it wrong?

Well beta is at 7.0.3 which is pretty much everything at level 100-110 and on. This tuning pass has probably been in the works until finally being released. A couple days ago people were noticing small differences here and there. Those differences were these tweeks that weren't quite talked about by a blue post yet. There will probably be more intro expansion hotfixes here and there, but this seems like the last touch on the classes/beta. Glad we're almost there.

[Floopa]

whenever i hear talk of raid cds it's always tranq vs dh vs htt ... where's revival?

also the meme of "2 min tranq" being super god tier when MWs can get revival down to <90 sec CD (through legendary) is kinda hilarious

idk, i would say healers are: shaman > holy priest > druid > MW = paladins > discs in mythic raids right now

taking a MW to a raid basically deletes 3-4% of a bosses hp, similar to disc (disc probably deletes 5%~) - to not see this mentioned from people who raid at WF level is kinda depressing

[Chrispotter]

whenever i hear talk of raid cds it's always tranq vs dh vs htt ... where's revival?

also the meme of "2 min tranq" being super god tier when MWs can get revival down to <90 sec CD (through legendary) is kinda hilarious

idk, i would say healers are: shaman > holy priest > druid > MW = paladins > discs in mythic raids right now

taking a MW to a raid basically deletes 3-4% of a bosses hp, similar to disc (disc probably deletes 5%~) - to not see this mentioned from people who raid at WF level is kinda depressing

What is hilarious is basing anything with assumptions of having certain legendarys.
Obviously everyone has different opinions, the classes in general are very close right now so many of the order can be argued in a different way. In the video I mention specifically mistweaver could easily become one of the best with a few minor changes, I also say resto shaman is one of the best progression classes.

However I completely stick by the order I ended with, the fact that druid can do incredible tank healing and insane raid healing warrants them #1. Paladin having a BOP that no longer makes the target unable to attack with physical dmg, being strong tank healers ( when we saw from mythic testing that some fights have insane tank damage) and their general mana efficient throughput, is enough for me to put them #2. Shaman is great in Legion, almost will certainly have a raid spot, but I think #3 is perfectly fine for them considering the lack of tank external and focused tank healing. Holy priest can be insane on fights where you are stacked, and ticking damage for POM to get full potential, as for divine hymn overhealing that was talked about earlier, I obviously cant show logs from our mythic testing but I can tell you that I didnt base this comment off of nothing, Echo of light during divine hymn is overhealing A LOT. And after playing resto druid for most of WOD I can tell you how shit it is to have a raid cd you need to stand still with, especially after the removal of Aspect of the Fox, and that holy priest doesnt have the mobility of WOD Resto druid. Mistweaver just needs a few changes and it can be really strong, but for now other classes are just straight up better in most aspects IMO. Disc is a wild card, could be really good or really bad depending on tuning changes.

I expect differing opinions, thats fine. This is the last I will post on it, this is afterall the paladin forum and not for all the healers

[Deleted]

Well beta is at 7.0.3 which is pretty much everything at level 100-110 and on. This tuning pass has probably been in the works until finally being released. A couple days ago people were noticing small differences here and there. Those differences were these tweeks that weren't quite talked about by a blue post yet. There will probably be more intro expansion hotfixes here and there, but this seems like the last touch on the classes/beta. Glad we're almost there.

Frankly I would be very surprised if all the tuning for 110 is done. Have not seen any healer balance in ages it feels like. But I guess probably some classes get the nerf bat right before mythic opens. Like WW in HM, good times.

[ImEveryCliche]

When the pre-patch hits, what should we be changing for the 6 weeks before legion?

[Deleted]

Plz buff resto shamans they are useless but

I obviously cant show logs from our mythic testing

you'll have to trust me on this one guis.

[Tomana]

You are more than welcome to disagree with points I made in the video, it is obviously just my opinion, but to call it nonsense I think is just in itself nonsense, its not like I based the ranking order on nothing

Hey, I watched your video about Legion healers, thanks for posting it, it's very informative.
However, I don't quite get why your ranking (which is obviously based on first-hand play) is so off compared to a lot of other blogs/videos I have seen.

By the way, it would be great to have videos for each healer with the summary of talents and artefacts you've been using (even if they're just screenshots).

[mcbubble]

At least this means you won't be crusading the Holy Paladin forums anymore...

That was hilarious!

[Thundering]

Its 2 bad the current holy paladin is so boring whit its bad utility & very little diversity in its spells and abiltys=( 2 bad the battlehealre concept died would have been awsome.

[btard]

But I guess probably some classes get the nerf bat right before mythic opens. Like WW in HM, good times.

I don't get how can you nerf or buff anything in between legion start and mythic clear because ppl will invest points towards their specs. With this artifact system it will generate cosmic amounts of whine and burned asses on the official forums.

[Clrg]

I don't get how can you nerf or buff anything in between legion start and mythic clear because ppl will invest points towards their specs. With this artifact system it will generate cosmic amounts of whine and burned asses on the official forums.

We are talking about blizzard here. They have show they can change their mind and all their logic very fast, remember warlock in SoO? from trash tier in the beta to godlike in a day.

At least GC had some consistency.

[fallenangel-succ]

I don't get how can you nerf or buff anything in between legion start and mythic clear because ppl will invest points towards their specs. With this artifact system it will generate cosmic amounts of whine and burned asses on the official forums.

It's not like most people debate between playing holy or prot. It's holy or another healer class. So the artifact system has no bearing here.

[Deleted]

*snip*

Mmo-c being weird

[CloudedInSanity]

That was hilarious!

I'm here all week.

[UR1L]

Is there a place where actual Holy discussion is going on and one could pick up some information? Seems this thread is more about Resto Druid and Shaman.

[Nedralixx]

Is there a place where actual Holy discussion is going on and one could pick up some information? Seems this thread is more about Resto Druid and Shaman.

Best post of the day.