The Blood elves should take over Suramar

[Beloren]

Horde player detected.. Hurr durr, everything belongs to blood elves and forsaken right?

but in this case, it does, and it would be nice, it's such a pretty city, it's elven and blood elves have highborne roots. Besides my friend was telling me blood elves were the first elves in Warcraft, they only invented night elves after that. so why not make it blood elf - it feels more right? it looks weird to see all those dark faces in Suramar anyway, feels out of place, they can join the night elves in the forest like the other highborne did.

Forsaken have claim to Dalaran too, why should only humans be in control especially if Forsaken memebers were Kirin'Tor, it's their city too.
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And the nightborne aren't all going to die, we are going to kill all the evil ones that sided with the legion, sheesh people, context!! Thalyssra, Lunastre and everything we do in Suramar is orchestrated by the nightborne resistance, they are the ones that send us into the Nighthold, they are the ones that get us to bring hope and stir courage in many of the nightborne and remind them of their brave night elven past - which we will succeed in doing.

I can only see the vaccuum created by the dead nightborne filled by night elves coming home.

if they survive, I think they'll want to live in the forests after being imprisoned in a forest for so long.

night elves don't like cities? what makes you say that?

they don't seem the city type, why would blizzard give them such a nice city? It could be that blizzard intended it for the blood elves to gain a foothold.

if the nightborne survive, I'd prefer them to be friends with the blood elves, and eventually the blood elves to take control because the nightborne messed up the nightwell and then the invited the legion, this is what night elves always do.

[Combatbutler]

highborne and common are not races, they are castes, and there were many castes, the only one we know the name of are highborne, we don't know the names of others, except maybe royalty, but it's not very clear. Highborne often mention the lesser castes - plural when you speak with Shen'drelar or WotA knoweldge.

and not just Tyrande/Malfurion/Illidan - Maiev, Jarod - in fact the night elves that won the WotA - were predominantly the group that marched from Suramar City and it's surrounding region.

I used them as a different term, because the highborne were usually the ones to evolve into different races, like high/blood elves, nightborne, satyr and naga. The shen'dralar are simply the only highborne group left that did not change, like all the others for whatever reason, despite munching on fel magic for 10.000 years.

[Mace]

I used them as a different term, because the highborne were usually the ones to evolve into different races, like high/blood elves, nightborne, satyr and naga. The shen'dralar are simply the only highborne group left that did not change, like all the others for whatever reason, despite munching on fel magic for 10.000 years.

ah gotchya.. my bad, thought you were calling the ones back then a different race.

[Lillyth]

Watch a war unfold.

The blood elves have no claim to a city and its people they abandoned.

[Sentynel]

They are the highborne peoples aren't they? and they have every right to the city, and if its true the nightborne are all going to die, and the night elves don't like cities, they have forests anyway - I mean they won't be able to handle a city, the blood elves should take over Suramar. It would be awesome, Silvermoon and now Suramar, two Ss.

Maybe they can fix the nightwell problem and make it into another sunwell, it's not fair the night elves should have all the other zones of the Broken Isles, without the blood elves having some too. The Blood elves are the best at magic, and they should be the ones to take over.

Besides, we haven't seen much of the blood elves yet in Legion, but we already know they make up most of the Demon Hunters, because they understand magic better, blizzard shouldn't just cut them out of the rest of the isles, they should have Suramar and the night elves the other place, Val'shrah, with the druids, then it's 1 v 1. The blood elves understand everything about the magic problems so they won't become like Withered, as they have the sunwell now, should make them able to get the nightwell too.

Also I think the Blood elves deserve to be in Dalaran, I don't like that Aethas Sunreaver has to beg, Dalaran won't exist if it wasn't for the blood elves - and blood elves don't beg.

BritishBulldog, Blood Elf edition LOL.

[Combatbutler]

I can only see the vaccuum created by the dead nightborne filled by night elves coming home.

Why though? There is nothing in Suramar that the average night elf would like, it is the epitome of what they disliked of their past, they might help the nightborne out out of pity, but they also might just scorn them just as much as they did the blood/high elves, who in their desperation turned to Illidans teachings. there are few night elves who are willing to associate with the Shen'dralar and those are most likely the only group that would jump at the chance to establish ties to the nightborne.

[KyrtF]

They are the highborne peoples aren't they? and they have every right to the city, and if its true the nightborne are all going to die, and the night elves don't like cities, they have forests anyway - I mean they won't be able to handle a city, the blood elves should take over Suramar. It would be awesome, Silvermoon and now Suramar, two Ss.

Maybe they can fix the nightwell problem and make it into another sunwell, it's not fair the night elves should have all the other zones of the Broken Isles, without the blood elves having some too. The Blood elves are the best at magic, and they should be the ones to take over.

Besides, we haven't seen much of the blood elves yet in Legion, but we already know they make up most of the Demon Hunters, because they understand magic better, blizzard shouldn't just cut them out of the rest of the isles, they should have Suramar and the night elves the other place, Val'shrah, with the druids, then it's 1 v 1. The blood elves understand everything about the magic problems so they won't become like Withered, as they have the sunwell now, should make them able to get the nightwell too.

Also I think the Blood elves deserve to be in Dalaran, I don't like that Aethas Sunreaver has to beg, Dalaran won't exist if it wasn't for the blood elves - and blood elves don't beg.

I would rather have the Blood Elfs story in their homelands finished first.

I don't agree that Dalaran should have been neutral.
I don't agree that Dalaran should have been the central city either.

I think both sides should have gotten their own NEW bases. Suramar could have formed part of a Blood Elf storyline...but I don't think a "takeover" would have been in the cards. Diplomatic relations and an embassy perhaps?

But I would have preferred the Horde and Alliance to have had their own separate bases.

[Mace]

they don't seem the city type, why would blizzard give them such a nice city? It could be that blizzard intended it for the blood elves to gain a foothold.

or it could be blizzard intended to show us another side of night elves? like maybe the high society side the Vigil group put on pause to protect us fromthe legion?? Suramar is how they all use to live like - but we've never been shown that, till now.

maybe blizzard wants to expand the night elves beyond the nature hippy trope... they tend to do that to every race they have a focus on in an expansion. And each expansion tends to expand a couple of other races too. Isn't that why you like wow? No one group sticks to stereotypes.

You would recall night elves on their introduction were first described as having a wonder-filled arcane society in harmony with nature, till it all went wrong. Well Suramar like it is now was one of the cities the night elves built back then. Now blizzard's just taking us there.

It feels weird because you're not use to it. pretty much.

As for Suramar though I'd rather the Nightfallen take it. No blood elves, no night elves. I'd rather it still an Nightborne or nightfallen hands afterward. Having some other group of elves with no real connection to it would be kind of lame.

Nightfallen are nightborne - get them some arcwine and they'll be good as new, Nightfallen is the state of starvation they are in, if they go too long without their food (which is adapted mana) they'll eventually starve into Withered, now Withered is a different state.

It's just that the reisstance is led by a nightborne currently in the nightfallen state, and since we operate from outside the city with her at the base, it's called the Nightfallen resistance, but it's nightborne through and through, it makes it easier to distinguish between the ones we are fighting which obviously all have access to the mana wine. That's also similar to night elf and nightborne, nightborne are a form of night elf, like verion 2.0 or alternative version.

It's entirely a night elven affair OP, the blood elves really don't have a place there, and I think night elf fans will be livid if blizzard took the nicest thing that has come out of the night elves that somehow against all expectations survived the destruction of the sundering, then got up and gave it to the blood elves and left the night elves still the same.

[Combatbutler]

ah gotchya.. my bad, thought you were calling the ones back then a different race.

Naw highborne are still the same, but the vast majority of them isn't anymore. It would be so much easier if the shen'dralar would have changed as well, then it would be possible to make a clear distinction, but thanks to the shen'dralar you have to either write every highborne offshoot down or simply say highborne, despite the fact it is not entirely correct ;P

[StationaryHawk]

The blood elves aren't exactly short on space. The only reason they'd want Suramar is for the Nightwell, and that would require it to be worth the amount of trouble that would come from them claiming exclusivity over it.

The blood elves have no claim to a city and its people they abandoned.

The Highborne were banished for continuing to use magic.

[Combatbutler]

Watch a war unfold.

The blood elves have no claim to a city and its people they abandoned.

It is rather lucky they didn't know suramar survived, otherwise it is quite likely they would have settled on the broken isles, which would have led to the extermination of the human race by the trolls.

[Kellorion]

I am hoping there is some kind of meeting between Night Elves, Nightborne, Highborne, High Elves and Blood Elves in Legion.

[Leodok]

They are the highborne peoples aren't they? and they have every right to the city, and if its true the nightborne are all going to die, and the night elves don't like cities, they have forests anyway - I mean they won't be able to handle a city, the blood elves should take over Suramar. It would be awesome, Silvermoon and now Suramar, two Ss.

Maybe they can fix the nightwell problem and make it into another sunwell, it's not fair the night elves should have all the other zones of the Broken Isles, without the blood elves having some too. The Blood elves are the best at magic, and they should be the ones to take over.

Besides, we haven't seen much of the blood elves yet in Legion, but we already know they make up most of the Demon Hunters, because they understand magic better, blizzard shouldn't just cut them out of the rest of the isles, they should have Suramar and the night elves the other place, Val'shrah, with the druids, then it's 1 v 1. The blood elves understand everything about the magic problems so they won't become like Withered, as they have the sunwell now, should make them able to get the nightwell too.

Also I think the Blood elves deserve to be in Dalaran, I don't like that Aethas Sunreaver has to beg, Dalaran won't exist if it wasn't for the blood elves - and blood elves don't beg.

The remaining Nightborne should stay in the city after we kill their leaders and end the Legion presence there. The Nightfallen return, and that one from the quests in Suramar (forgot her name) becomes their leader.
The End.

It is rather lucky they didn't know suramar survived, otherwise it is quite likely they would have settled on the broken isles, which would have led to the extermination of the human race by the trolls.

I thought the elves were being exterminated then the humns came and helped them out.
Was that retconned in the Chronicle or what?

[Mace]

Why though? There is nothing in Suramar that the average night elf would like, it is the epitome of what they disliked of their past,..

because the night elf story isn't finished yet, and this is the continuation, we've only heard some of it so far, and i think blizzard is continuing that thread that was put down for a good few years while they worked on the horde stories and other races. I don't think the night elves were ever meant to stay in that state, it's sort of hanging if you think about it - why introduce all that back story, to render the cessation of magic pointless, and just leave the race in limbo? No, that isn't the intention and now they've gotten back to it, they are shwoing us or about to show us what they'd planned to do a while ago.

So I think it's fresh new direction for them. Storywise it is one that is born out of a long for the time before the abuse of magic by Azshara, the time when the arcane and nature were used in concert and only good things came from their mastery, this was when they built cities, sculpted landscapes and forests and made things beautiful, where priests, druids (ancients) and mages were in harmony, all knew arcane spells, all prayed to the goddess, all revered nature, Azshara hadn't gone all whacky and cold, splitting from the priesthood and all the things that led - there are quite a few things about their past and the arcane that the horror of the legion skewed immensely for them - and has characterized their current loathing towards magic they clearly still love, and the arcane they are constantly surrounded by.

Gamewise - it's something different and something fresh (even though it's actually quite old for them in the lore, think of it as a return to the days when arcane usage was pure - before Azshara's madness ) lorewise, this is what takes the night elf story forward, otherwise they're going to be stuck where they are. The reason for the long vigil and the abstinence from casting is ended. The arcane has real danger to it's use but also great benefit and the source is a good thing not a bad thing. They've been blaming themselves unfairly and magic for everything - the Vigil despite their

it's time for them to start moving forward again, and recapture what they use to be, and besides, who doesn't want a dark elf arcane fantasy. So the way I see it, there would be enough night elves and highborne wanting to embrace the nightborne and magic. Not all will, but I think the nightborne and how they've handled magic in the last 10k years, the revelations Illidan brings and the actions of Thalyssra and Lunastre in the nightborne resistance - are what can restore the night elves confidence in the arcane. Taking them to the days when arcane was used responsibly, with innovation, mingled with the faith and humility from the priesthood. I think the way they have set the nightborne up - under the outward cover of the arcane malady and betrayal of Elisande is a lot of evidence and promise of actually good usage.

Thalyssra and Lunastre show that the nightborne as arcane users are both honourable, oppose evil even if it will cost them their lives - Thalyssra doesn't give up just because she's nightfallen. They rise up to handle the situation, that holds the key to the survival of Azeroth from this current invasion. The way the nightborne have lived in the last 10k years has been exemplary in terms of magical usage, they've succeeded in the majority (with few exceptions) where the Shen'drelar failed in the majority (with few exceptions), using magic to an incredibly high degree and fluency without going reckless, arrogant, greedy like what happened to Azshara. This is the only night elven group that has actually handled magic like it ought to, like the rest of the night elves like Malfurion would deem responsible.

Remember they have lost confidence is their race's ability to handle that power safely because of what Azshara did, even Malfurion thought his brother's mind addled or warped by this fascination. They've blamed themselves for it for a long time, this has characterized them - but now, in Suramar, in the nightborne and Illidan comes the only redemption from this. Suramar will remind them that magic for spells was actually once upon a time used to achieve incredible things, good things, beautiful things without craziness or weakness, the nightborne the confidence that night elven hands can wield it so responsibly too, Illidan is vindication that even though Azshara prompted it, the night elves, nor their magic were not the reasons why the Legion came to Azeroth, they would have come if the night elves did not exist, and were searching long before they did come, furthermore, they would have found Azseroth again if the night elves never touched magic again, and magic never corrupted Illidan in the first place, Illidan did not betray his people, he did not set up the well and restore magic to draw the legion back, who weren't really after the magic as their prime goal anyway, he was genuinely trying to help and was successfully undercover - a feat no one else had been able to achieve till then -- hoodwink Sargeras.. this will stand out incredibly well for them ... they will need no reminder of how mismanagement can be destructive though, but now out of isolation they'd know that is not an arcane magic thing alone, as you see all sorts of people from all walks can go out of whack, Fandral from the druids, Cordana Felsong from the priesthood & warden, the human ArchBishop who was the twilight father, even dragon aspects, and remember, the nightwell corruption has not come from magical misuse or abuse at all, for a change - avoiding the arcane because of corruption the night elves will find silly now, given how many druids are corrupted by the nightmare, or priests by the shadow - you deal with magic corruption not by abandoning the source but by fighting the corruption when it occurs.

THe night elves had abandoned the arcane usage because of their fear and shame, with this healed by all the recent developments, revelations etc, there is no hinderance now. This is the what is underlying what's going on with the nightborne, Suramar, Illidan - and this is how it brings healing to a people that have really been in mourning for 10,000 years. And what do you know, at the same time the nightborne remember that they were once heroes and rise up with the leadership of the resistance and the help of the heroes invading the nighthold and gaining back their city - and the health returns.

I have written a lot about this on the beta as I keep exploring the nuance of this. Suramar, the nightborne, Thalyssra, Illidan and the Legion - all the elememts that broke the night elves 10k years ago are back, but now they get clarity, and a demonstration - they never saw highborne rise up and fight the legion like Elisande did 10k years ago, the only example of highborne fidelity was the Zin'Azshari group that escaped with Darth'remar - and they had been summoning the demons for a while before they came to their senses. PArt of the great hurt was that not only was the night elven empire lost, but THEIR homes, their families back in SURAMAR - do you not see how SUramar surviving is significant? How highborne mages rising up against Azshara and the legion is significant? It's the only example -remmeber the Eldre'thalas lot, were slow to reject the queen, unlike Nar'thalas who got punished for doing so by Azshara, but after the sundering, the Eldre'thalas highborne decide to use a demon, and then look at what happens to their prince.

It is important and significant that the Suramar night elves - highborne and other castes did not, they instead behaved responsibly for 10k years, remember the majority of the night elven survivors are from Suramar - discovering their people survived - families survived, that's huge. Not all night elven magic users, high magic users go off - this is the evidence, Malfurion may not have been able to trust the word of Darth'remar and the Zin'Azshari highborne because of their role in the whole business, arcane magical mistrust dominated the night elves since - and now they find out this group where the opposite occured, that is monumental in their views - how? Confidence! Confidence in using the arcane, no need to be uncertain, no need to fear that you might trip up... ofc always need to be alert and avoid complacency ofc, but now your attitude can turn around. You can embrace one another and work confidently together rather than forced too out of duress. This change has the potential to restore the heart of the night elven people altogether. Despite Elisande having capitulated, Thalyssra does not, nor does Lunastre, and others, and that number grew during the resistance till it got over half the city.

It will give the night elves new confidence in the arcane, to press forward with a new future, but it won't erase what they have, as their identity changes, they will still have the strong facets of the disciplines they hold. Arcane wielding I feel would continue to be a nightborne thing, with a small number of night elves elevating. The nightborne will handle the arcane training mostly. Druids will continue to be druids, priests priests, demon hunters demon hunters. Some nightborne will undoubtedly want to learn druidsm, probably more than a few after being in a city only for 10 k years, and now they have night elven magic users they can respect, a lot more night elves than previously would be open to magic again, but not all.

This what I see happening. they've blamed the arcane for losing this /points at Suramar, because of their experience during that horrific time, and now the revelations have the potential to set all of that right.


TLDR version - Blizzard always wanted to give you an arcane night elf fantasy, and part of the night elves story is to see that element of that restored and this is why the two races will get along.

Blizzard doesn't pidgeon hole a race into one niche - every race as you know has several strong niches, not just one, some have more than others, but that depends on their development time - each one has their own flavour of it, the arcane flavour of the nightborne/night elves is very distinct to that of the blood elves which is more similar to the humans but quite distinct itself - so each race feels to have its own. I think initially Suramar was going to have normal night elves, but they had a great idea as they were trying to distinguish them from the main group that hadn't advanced in magic to make them different enough to be called nightborne - almost like now these are the proper arcane night elves, they look different from regular night elves. You'll see in the Collector's Edition. Each race also has more than one aspect, and more than one sub-group that explores multiple varied facets of that race - makes their universe and their races far more diverse than any other fantasy setting. It's done surprisingly well despite the flaws.

they might help the nightborne out out of pity, but they also might just scorn them just as much as they did the blood/high elves, who in their desperation turned to Illidans teachings. there are few night elves who are willing to associate with the Shen'dralar and those are most likely the only group that would jump at the chance to establish ties to the nightborne.

Did you read the little novella? That's my analysis of the situation, and my suspicion of what will occur - I could be wrong of course, but it's why I feel based on their lore it would go - but blizzard hasn't always followed their own baseline and could deviate from it. It's a shame if they do, because part of the great attraction of delving deeply into the lore is so that you can discover these sort of things not easily noticed on the surface, makes you search more for it, drawing you in, and really engaging you.

but if they do something sloppy instead which they sometimes do, it's a downer and causes you to take them a bit less seriously, because you end up feeling they wasted an opportunity for great story telling or future potential developments.

What you're saying could easily come to pass, it would mean ofc, they decide not to do something more with the night elves or the elves, because my first post on this topic when I played the Alpha and saw Suramar was really the potential to heal ALL the elves, starting with the night elves first and then growing to encompass the blood elves and high elves too, in an elven unity for the first time since before the sundering that would alter the political landscape.

The healing of the night elves has the potential to keep going forward and bring unity with the blood elves too, giving a situation where an Elven nation is formed with its head Capital city in Suramar, nightborne majority ofc, and night elves there too, but Darnassus and Silvermoon have embassies there, but from here the purpose of the elves within the horde and alliance change.

no longer are they groups depending on the horde and the alliance, but now they have a new mandate that's focused on protecting the world, the new elven nation mandates the DArnassian and Thalassian groups to continue to operate within the horde and alliance to safegaurd the world's future, they are to be the voice of reason to prevent the two factions from destroying themselves or producing another Garrosh or Staghelm or Bendictus and cause even more mayhem. They are also to keep nudging the races to continue aid in global defense issues especially when they just want to carve out larger lands for themselves. Finally to ensure the factions do not interefere with the restoration of the Elves - as they restore cities and forests.

The vision would have seen us continue to have night elves in the alliance and blood elves in the horde but for very different reasons than WC3 and TBC provided.

[derpkitteh]

ohhh, i just thought. this could be a way for them to update quel'thalas in the next expansion. have the nightwell be de-powered by removing the eye of aman'thul, leading to the nightborne being in a lot of trouble. have the blood elves open quel'danas to them as a gesture of kinship, since they obviously know what they'd be going through. then, next expansion, quel'thalas is updated with nightborne npcs around and the quests can involve curing the dead scar and maybe delegation between the leader of the nightborne and lor'themar.

[Mace]

ohhh, i just thought. this could be a way for them to update quel'thalas in the next expansion. have the nightwell be de-powered by removing the eye of aman'thul, leading to the nightborne being in a lot of trouble. have the blood elves open quel'danas to them as a gesture of kinship, since they obviously know what they'd be going through. then, next expansion, quel'thalas is updated with nightborne npcs around and the quests can involve curing the dead scar and maybe delegation between the leader of the nightborne and lor'themar.

feels off though, why would you want them to get rid of the lovely suramar after taking such pains to design and bring it back? Or get rid of the lovely night, moon and stars theme, and the nightborne would hate the diurnal overly bright Quel'thalas, not night elven enough. I also get the feeling the blood elves would hate Suramar for that reason, too nighty, too night elven. Although they might have an embassy there if the nightborne choose not to close of relations with the other highborne.

[derpkitteh]

feels off though, why would you want them to get rid of the lovely suramar after taking such pains to design and bring it back? Or get rid of the lovely night, moon and stars theme, and the nightborne would hate the diurnal overly bright Quel'thalas, not night elven enough. I also get the feeling the blood elves would hate Suramar for that reason, too nighty, too night elven. Although they might have an embassy there if the nightborne choose not to close of relations with the other highborne.

i don't think the day and night themes would come into play. you're essentially dying a slow, painful death from your addiction to the nightwell. a little bit of sunshine isn't going to sway you from saving your life.

honestly though, it might just be the nightwell itself that can sustain them, and the sunwell wouldn't work. it could be that way due to the eye of aman'thul being the base of the energy within it.

[Combatbutler]

honestly though, it might just be the nightwell itself that can sustain them, and the sunwell wouldn't work. it could be that way due to the eye of aman'thul being the base of the energy within it.

Considering they use ordinary arcane energy afterwards to sustain themselves, it does not seem to be the case, but the nightwell has the ability to grant immortality, which other sources do not. After all its arcane essence is so potent it has to be diluted into arcwine to consume it.

[Friendlyimmolation]

The remaining Nightborne should stay in the city after we kill their leaders and end the Legion presence there. The Nightfallen return, and that one from the quests in Suramar (forgot her name) becomes their leader.
The End.


I thought the elves were being exterminated then the humns came and helped them out.
Was that retconned in the Chronicle or what?

Humans were in just as deep shit according to chronicle

[derpkitteh]

Considering they use ordinary arcane energy afterwards to sustain themselves, it does not seem to be the case, but the nightwell has the ability to grant immortality, which other sources do not. After all its arcane essence is so potent it has to be diluted into arcwine to consume it.

then maybe being around the sunwell, with its light essence, could help them in a better way than the nightwell can.

they still haven't done anything with that fact yet, other than liadrin being pure and good and stuff now. they need to have that light essence effect the elves in some way eventually.