Simulationcraft results for 7.0 Legion PrePatch

[Zeals]

I wasn't expecting BOE trinkets to win over Heirlooms on demons.

[Smaxy]

Crafted items ewwwwww

So the redone malicious censor is crap?

[Aethys256]

Is using a slow offhand weapon still okay for Subtlety?

Most of the time a fast weapon will win. Basically, go for what you have procced wf/socket.

Wonder how long it takes to get changed

Well, you might want to tweet Celestalon or any Blizz dev about it

Hello, first of all good job and thank you for the work you did. I'd like to know wich enchant should i go for in assn (neck, ring, cloak, weapons) . Should i go full versa or full crit ?

Basically, you go Versa until it starts to stop to be the best stats (which occurs when you're around 3k versa at ~740 ilvl with some sockets).
After that, you will need depending on if you run Vigor or DS some haste (around 1k).
After, go for Crit & Mastery.
I do use Thunderlord enchant and Versa ones on all others slots.

Yeah I'd love to see simulations of this, because on Beta I'm able to get much higher numbers than what the AMR simulations tells me I should be getting at my Ilvl (850).

Also, how is DfA calculated in terms of the delay there's caused by the animation? seeing as you're unable to AA to get main gauche procs, and the energy cap it creates during high energy phases, can result in less usage of finishers during Curse of the Dreadblades.

Furthermore how about MfD being more effective at rerolling buffs to lessen the strain of bad luck when rolling? - Especially in dungeons I find MfD to be vastly superior due to the reset and the ability to keep up 20% alacrity during the entire run. Seeing as a ton of raid fights also make use of adds this could skew results in actual raids.

I do not use AMR Simulation to get those results.
The Outlaw APL is pretty straight and doesn't include any fishing for RtB. If you're able to improve it, tell me in private message or do a pull request on the Github repo. I won't work much on it until late August. (Also, some things are missing in SimC Module about the Artifact for Outlaw)

So basically Skull of War + Stone of the Elements better than BHTV + Fapacitor for Assassination?

In a nutshell. Depend your wf/socket procs.

i find it weird that the sim suggests vigor is better than anticipation for sub, i can still do the 2xSS+evi+2xSS without vigor in one dance(with subterfuge) so why take vigor at all? that just opens you up for overcapping in CPs

edit: it could be because of on beta i have the energy procs from energetic stabbing, so maybe that's why

but if that's the case will anticipation or DS be better on 110? (seems logical it would be especially once we get the legendary boots.)

Anticipation is garbage because DS solves basically the same issue while letting you increasing your DpE (Damage per Energy) on finisher and your finisher damage overall which does go well with the sub mastery.
Overall, since BHTV is still around, Shadowstrike got a big importance at level 100 while it's lowered at level 110 because you don't have BHTV and you have Artifact Traits like Energetic Stabbing that make your Shadow Dance rotation smooth.

And to answer you, DS is better than Vigor at level 110 but it's still close. At level 100 the difference is 1% and basing on your haste rating (ie your iLvl since we do not go for Haste) it will change and DS might be better.

Thanks for this.

You're welcome

yea that seemed odd to me as well, maybe the sim places a really high valuation on energy gen effects? or maybe just as you say, it's the differences from not having the artifact

See above.

Thanks for your work. I want to ask about assassination i saw that vers is pretty close to crit, was this simulated for skull of war trinket ? And is it worth gearing for 100% crit on rupture - 2set bonus. Also did you delay exsanguinate for legendary ring use or just use it on cd. ?

Vers > Crit >>> All for Assassination. (Do not quote me on this, it's situational and only a deep analysis with SimC can gives you precise results based on your gear and your options to modify your stats distribution (sockets, alternative items, enchants, ...))
Haste & Mastery are pretty bad since basically Rupture is 50% of your DPS. (With the bleed build which is ahead of the poison build)
No I do not delay it for Ring, if you're able to find the optimal condition to add it then do not hesitate to send to me the APL or Pull Request it.
I won't work much on PrePatch -specific- APL

They're both crafted trinkets so can't do that afaik.

You can wear up to 3 crafts.

thanks for the great works.

Do you guys think that the numbers we are going to see starting with Patch 7.0 will be somewhat representatively for LEGION dps numbers?

Or do you think that the artifact coming with the expansion makes a too big difference that numbers are not really important with 7.0 ?

Thanks guys

You'll have your answers in my Legion thread

I wasn't expecting BOE trinkets to win over Heirlooms on demons.

That's my bad, it was humanoid. On demon the Heirloom is between Skull & Stone basically.
Will change it in the next update.

Crafted items ewwwwww

So the redone malicious censor is crap?

Kinda yes


@All : I'll update the spreadsheet tonight with the latest SimC changes and will add some things some of you suggested to me including the BrF trinket since they might be nice for Assn.
I did tried every trinkets from Mythic Highmaul to Mythic Hellfire Citadel but I kept only the good ones. I added the Injector at 735 iLvl since most of you already farmed but there are some good trinkets in Mythic Dungeon if you procced them at max ilvl.
But since PrePatch is a 6 weeks period ...

I'll also add a FAQ in the first post. ^^

[shaunika123]

Anticipation is garbage because DS solves basically the same issue while letting you increasing your DpE (Damage per Energy) on finisher and your finisher damage overall which does go well with the sub mastery.
Overall, since BHTV is still around, Shadowstrike got a big importance at level 100 while it's lowered at level 110 because you don't have BHTV and you have Artifact Traits like Energetic Stabbing that make your Shadow Dance rotation smooth.
^

dunno ive always found DS to be awkward, do you just use evis/NB on 5 cp if you have to or just waste the CP from another SS?

[Aethys256]

dunno ive always found DS to be awkward, do you just use evis/NB on 5 cp if you have to or just waste the CP from another SS?

You still do finisher when you have 5cp and sometimes the rng makes you consumes 6cp since you just had a proc.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the sheet Aethys , it gives me a clearer idea for patch day.
It's funny how "bad" trinkets are so high with assa, will stick with sub for release day.

[Deleted]

Hi, first thanks for your work, and i also have a question regarding the soulcap. It looks like that its effectivity dropped really hard for sup so id like to ask why is that?

Is it only becouse the % dmg decrease wih the patch or also becouse the other trinkets went up so much. Is the flat versatility on the stone of elements that good or what makes this trinket that much better?

[Kalador]

Hi, first thanks for your work, and i also have a question regarding the soulcap. It looks like that its effectivity dropped really hard for sup so id like to ask why is that?

Is it only becouse the % dmg decrease wih the patch or also becouse the other trinkets went up so much. Is the flat versatility on the stone of elements that good or what makes this trinket that much better?

All rppm trinket were rework.. actually they were bug in WoD for example they are not always suppose to proc on pull... There is a blue post about that. On top of that most HFC trinket were nerfed to be in line with what is coming in legion...


I think this is the blue post about the rppm change http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20742444392#2

[Deleted]

No, MoSh is always ahead of DFA.

What about the lvl 30 row, is Subterfuge still the top pick at lvl 110 with DS? (For Sub)

[Wow]

All rppm trinket were rework.. actually they were bug in WoD for example they are not always suppose to proc on pull... There is a blue post about that. On top of that most HFC trinket were nerfed to be in line with what is coming in legion...


I think this is the blue post about the rppm change http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20742444392#2

It wasn't a bug it was fully intended it was a change that happened in mop because rppm trinkets sucked compared to normal trinkets. Now they have us stuck with nothing but the rppm trinkets and are just nerfing it because rng is the theme of legion.

[Kalador]

It wasn't a bug it was fully intended it was a change that happened in mop because rppm trinkets sucked compared to normal trinkets. Now they have stuck with nothing but the rppm trinkets and are just nerfing it to nerf it.

Reading the post both the op and Celestalon talk about a bug. I mean not that I really care... The important part is that rppm trinket proc less reliably on pull nerfing them.... That added to the actual nerf to HFC trinket they made for pre patch explain why we see crafted or PvP trinket above 730-740 is rppm trinket

[Narokath]

All rppm trinket were rework.. actually they were bug in WoD for example they are not always suppose to proc on pull... There is a blue post about that. On top of that most HFC trinket were nerfed to be in line with what is coming in legion...


I think this is the blue post about the rppm change http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20742444392#2

Even though it's already been lightly said. I'm actually pretty sick of this misconception. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8197741003

It was never a bug. It was an intended change by Blizzard to make things a bit more random to 'feel cool'. The proc on pull aspect is a biproduct of their implementation and was intended to keep it somewhat consistent with how trinkets were prior to this change.

I don't know about everyone else but their newest proposal for changing how RPPM trinkets work is fundamentally stupid. What they should be doing is lowering the power of these trinket effects and increasing their frequency, as to spread their power instead of praying for the stars to align to beat out less powerful On-Use trinkets.

[Kalador]

Even though it's already been lightly said. I'm actually pretty sick of this misconception. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8197741003

It was never a bug. It was an intended change by Blizzard to make things a bit more random to 'feel cool'. The proc on pull aspect is a biproduct of their implementation and was intended to keep it somewhat consistent with how trinkets were prior to this change.

I don't know about everyone else but their newest proposal for changing how RPPM trinkets work is fundamentally stupid. What they should be doing is lowering the power of these trinket effects and increasing their frequency, as to spread their power instead of praying for the stars to align to beat out less powerful On-Use trinkets.

Look like I said in my other post both komma( well known mage theorycrafter ) and Celestalon use the terms bug to explain why rppm were always triggered on pull... I'm not taking this out of my ass... Was this a bug or was it intended Idrc I'm not going to argue with you as I really don't want to dive into the math behind it. I'm sitting this blue post cause it explain why rppm trinket don't always proc on pull anymore...

I'm not a giant fan of rppm trinket either as they are harder to balance well and are more RNG than skill... Tho I don't mind the change has it give better value to on-use trinket.

[Smaxy]

anyone have BiS lists?

this is a nightmare i didnt prepare for this haha

[shaunika123]

anyone have BiS lists?

this is a nightmare i didnt prepare for this haha

this is purely from "im pretty sure based on plain logic" but i think these are your bis items:

sub breaks the set with archi gloves assa breaks it with mano legs
ring is the xhul ring for both, neck is archi neck for both
bracer is fel lord for both, shoes are tyrant for assa(or maybe the killrog ones but i think the 10 ilvl trumps over the small value versa yields over crit) and the trash one for sub
belt is archi for both trinkets are in the list provided by OP

but honestly just use whatever has sockets in it.

basically sub wants mastery and assa wants versa/crit

[metalslave]

Wild Gladiator's Insignia of Conquest has iLvL 700 and can't be upgraded to 710 (pvp item). In your worksheet says 710.

[Kalador]

Wild Gladiator's Insignia of Conquest has iLvL 700 and can't be upgraded to 710 (pvp item). In your worksheet says 710.

The 710 one is warmongering gladiator so also WG

[Deleted]

thanks for the great work, i'll go assa for pre patch...



you can equipe 2 crafted trinket

the optimal trinket for assa is probably stone of the elements + soul cap if you're a bit lucky...

Well my both trinkets are non-WF/socketed so im gonna go with two crafteds. Ahh and that feeling when you don't need to worry about garbage procs, FeelsGoodMan.

[Kalador]

Well my both trinkets are non-WF/socketed so im gonna go with two crafteds. Ahh and that feeling when you don't need to worry about garbage procs, FeelsGoodMan.

if you have stone of the element it's probably the best trinket, for 2nd trinket soul cap (735) even not WF is still a great choice, the max dps potential is the highest, yes on average it is under skull but it can be a lot better if you are a bit lucky, i don't know yet if ill go stone/skull or stone/cap... i'll try both combo and see what happen, i agree with you, i kinda want to go stone skull just to never see that grey screen again lol!

[Deleted]

Yeah the only problem is "if you are a bit lucky". I just saw somewhere that for some guy it procced once in 3 minutes window, or none in 5 minutes window, if the proc is really nerfed like this, then I might as well disenchant capacitor right after pre-patch.