[BETA] Demonology Warlock Discussion

[Deleted]

Not consciously, it's just they are crap at design lol

All that is needed to to say make DE castable whilst moving or something.

[Zaee]

The Doombolt nerf is to force demolocks to use their unique pet the Felguard.

Because otherwise the perma-doomguard is just better, for one thing, it's not a shitty melee pet so it's way better at target switching and inaccessibly bosses.

I don't get how we can go through all of alpha and beta and suddenly it's "hey, we're nerfing a pet by 15% and your first artefact talent by 40% two days before prepatch lulz"

Demo is fun to play but sadly I can see everyone getting pushed into destruction yet again, because high burst and cleave specs that are good at everything else always win

Same old, demo has horrible rampup and mobility, like affliction has horrible rampup and aoe.

Lol, what high burst? Destro does pretty crap damage too at the moment, and only really shines in two-target cleaves cuz OP Havoc

[Deleted]

High compared to aff and demo lol

[Zaee]

that's true sadly lmao

[Deleted]

So it's all doom and gloom again for Legion as it was for WoD ?

[Zaee]

i haven't felt so depressed seeing warlock changes since the cata nerfs

[Gaidax]

So it's all doom and gloom again for Legion as it was for WoD ?

Well it's basically the same thing again, bunch of unfounded QQ. Bottom line is - there will be lots of crying as usual and warlocks will end up being fine as usual.

Basically from what I see in beta, the problem is not warlocks being weak or something, but some lucky chosen specs not being nerfbatted yet (looking at Unholy and Fire for example that are just too good at seemingly everything).

Of course it's not like all complaints are unfounded, but there is just way too much exaggeration in just about everything. Basically, if you see someone saying that everything is bad and terrible, you can dismiss him right away.

[Deleted]

@Zaee: You're in the beta clearly, is it really bad ?

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Basically from what I see in beta, the problem is not warlocks being weak or something, but some lucky chosen specs not being nerfbatted yet (looking at Unholy and Fire for example that are just too good at seemingly everything).

Well we've been on that end in MoP, I wouldn't begrudge any other class that! I would just wish them luck with getting used to being 'just fine' again when the hammer falls

[Deleted]

Yeah, not so much warlocks being weak, just having to work harder for less results than others, fire mage is stupid good at everything it seems, plus I think there's disappointment at the lock spec that got a total redesign being cool to play but very lacking in performance where it counts, horrid rampup times and immobility mean you play it for being cool but will drop it for progress because destruction is better

Demo is not helped by being bound to a pet AI that's the same as ever, sadly, and with the doombolt nerf they are straighjacketing into using the Felguard melee pet as well, and melee pets suck worse than ranged ones

[Gaidax]

Well currently in Beta you do have a couple of specs which are SoO Warlocks for all intents and purposes, then there are specs that are DISGUSTINGLY good at that ONE thing (Assassination Rogue single target DPS is out of this world, way above anything) or for that matter Destruction Warlock cleave actually, which is beyond ridiculous with Wreak Havoc.

Everyone else is pretty tame, when I was doing all the raid testing I did not feel particularly weak, it was okay as Destruction, for example, and if I could happily abuse cleave on such encounters like Anomaly it was easily top DPS no sweat.

[xuros]

I just don't get it. I'm chunking my health and costing my healers mana just so I can make use of my spells whereas every other caster doesn't have to cope with this.

This is even worse in PvP, where you're opening yourself up to a burst window whenever you life tap.

I even understand the odd life tap every minute, but this rate of mana consumption is just horrendous.

Healers heal, its what they do. For everything else there is.... Ok, I'll stop lol.

Anyway its just something that we have to deal with and healers can use it to increase their HPS lol.

[Cyberthug32]

I have been doing a lot of dummy testing on talents. Grim Synergy, seems to be doing fairly well for prepatch. I'm not sure yet if Imp plosion will be a go to even during single target or just aoe/cleave fights.

[Baconeggcheese]

I think it's a step back that certain specs are forced into one specific demon. Would someone die if I could use Felhunter or Succubus as Destruction for the same effect damage wise as Imp?

Their issue was that if they're all equal you always pick imp in pve.

The solution should have then been to nerf imp so that its a lil weaker on patchwerk and makes up for it when there's high movement target swaps or something to that effect, but instead they went with this.

So it's all doom and gloom again for Legion as it was for WoD ?

Yeah that sounds about right, and just like with wod we're still going to be one of the best classes to have in your raid.

[Gaidax]

Their issue was that if they're all equal you always pick imp in pve.

The solution should have then been to nerf imp so that its a lil weaker on patchwerk and makes up for it when there's high movement target swaps or something to that effect, but instead they went with this.

Not necessarily, imagine if Succubus and Felhunter would provide a powerful personal utility such as for example Felhunter giving you something like Anti-magic Shell blocking magic damage/harmful effects for X seconds at 60 seconds CD for example or have a mobility CD where it charges to you allowing you to ride it for a short time as a mount. Then Succubus would give you some sort of mobility skill, for example pulling you to herself with a whip (lovely) life grip style or something similar like tossing you into your gateway without triggering CD. Or even a simple death prevention where a killing blow against you would be blocked by a Succubus that would use a whip to swap location with you and die instead of you.

Basically you don't just need damage, if you are provided some serious benefits useful for encounter then you would find yourself changing demons quite a bit from encounter to encounter.

[wholol]

Not necessarily, imagine if Succubus and Felhunter would provide a powerful personal utility such as for example Felhunter giving you something like Anti-magic Shell blocking magic damage/harmful effects for X seconds at 60 seconds CD for example or have a mobility CD where it charges to you allowing you to ride it for a short time as a mount. Then Succubus would give you some sort of mobility skill, for example pulling you to herself with a whip (lovely) life grip style or something similar like tossing you into your gateway without triggering CD. Or even a simple death prevention where a killing blow against you would be blocked by a Succubus that would use a whip to swap location with you and die instead of you.

Basically you don't just need damage, if you are provided some serious benefits useful for encounter then you would find yourself changing demons quite a bit from encounter to encounter.

Hello pvp imbalances, we're already strong in that area right now ( on beta ) , your suggested changes ( the felhunter one mainly) would be too strong and will probably lead to other area nerfs coz #blizzardlogic so no thnx

[Baconeggcheese]

Basically you don't just need damage, if you are provided some serious benefits useful for encounter then you would find yourself changing demons quite a bit from encounter to encounter.

They already have utility differences, they don't need more. Nor would blizzard intend on adding more utility to our class that they clearly are cutting back on for classes.

Dmg was just the simplest example of a way they could have solved their "issue" while letting us still just use whatever pet we want or even the proper utility pet without having to sacrifice dmg.

[Zaee]

you aren't playing in pvp then clearly cuz it really is that bad xD

[Vynny]

3 seconds? You will never cast a Shadow Bolt/Demonbolt. Also I am aware that Power tap is a 50% chance but it's still worth taking whether you choose to go the build I am talking about or not.

Well yes if it was just 2 imps but it's not by much but lets play it out like this: Dreadstalker is a 15 second cd 12 second duration, within the 15 seconds you can summon out 16 imps given u use 4 shards and build to 5 before spending it on hand. Imps will do miles more dmg than your Dreadstalkers, also let's not forget in the Demo lock artifact there is only one trait that slightly buff Dreadstalkers damage, but there are many that buff imps damage so again I say casting Dreadstalkers outside of Demonic Calling is a dps lost and even casting with the Proc its a dps lost because you could use that GCD to cast shards for more imps or a Hand for imps. Casting Dreadstalkers with "Recurrent Ritual" makes casting Dreadstalkers with Demonic Calling a dps gain because with the proc and u have the shoulders it will give you back 2 extra shards

So with only 1 rank in my sharpened dreadfangs trait my dreadstalkers did about 250k per cast single target.

With Imp-erator and infernal furnace fully ranked up my imps+HoG at 4 shards did about 350k per cast single target.

So with dreadstalkers I'm getting about 132.5k per shard and imps+HoG is giving me 87.5k per shard. On top of that, as was mentioned before the dreadstalkers have more hp than the imps do making them contribute more to TKC. My dreadstalkers have about 528k while my imps have 198k without empowerment, so that becomes 834k for dreadstalkers and 312k for imps with empowerment. This means that shard for shard, dreadstalkers will give 50k per dreadstalker (or per shard) towards TKC while imps only give about 19k per shard.

Also, getting 16 imps in 15 seconds is more luck than anything else. Your whole rotation relies upon winning a coin toss 5 out of 6 times consistently, and if you miss 2 power trip procs then you're losing raw pet dps going with your rotation. On top of that, any TKC portions of the rotation will benefit more from having dreadstalkers out, so your rotation can only win out during non TKC portions of the rotation and again that's still relying on rng to give you 5 out of 6 power trip procs. So it may be marginally better sometimes to use your rotation, but the chances for RNG damage loss and loss of damage on TKC makes using dreadstalkers more worth it than your rotation IMHO. Not to mention the fact that if you were to use a 2 shard HoG along with the dreadstalkers then you'd actually surpass the damage done by using purely HoG, but it's not worth using a 2 shard HoG in most cases.

[Deleted]

Been away since MoP...

Is the new form of demo play fun?

[Baconeggcheese]

Been away since MoP...

Is the new form of demo play fun?

Fun is subjective friend.