Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[RickJamesLich]

Horde side Nost players come out and show yourselves! Supahotfiyah (Troll mage) here, I was in Phoenix and Momentum. Also had a shammy named Dookie Jones

[Eapoe]

What proof did you provide that I asked for?

I have never said that those things do not need to be considered so I don't why brought them up.

How I am being vague?

My argument about Battlenet? I've not made any argument about Battlenet. What do you mean that I talked about nothing else? I wrote seven words about it that said I'd never argued against it.

Ok, so you post stuff calling into question stuff that I have never said and I am at fault?

"Why would they need to develop WoW again? It makes no sense. Why wouldn't they, assuming they decided to go ahead with Legacy servers, move people to legacy from projects that have been completed rather than ongoing ones? Why wouldn't people who work within Blizzard have the skills to work on Classic Wow? Is there some sort of special skill set needed?"-Pann's post from page 1455.
You ask what proof was provided, to which the obvious answer was Otexaphon's (I believe) post of the Blizzard and Nost press releases, and I later posted a very small list of things to consider that would need worked on. I also added that they probably have some of that saved, and some of it not. Blizzards own post stated they would have to work backwards in order to get a Vanilla Legacy server working, and they do not have all the code. The list I provided doesn't even cover many of the things they would have to deal with, just a minor list of obvious things I thought of in a few seconds.
As far as you being vague, you ask things like "why can't Blizzard move resources," and "where is your proof?" You are then given very clear reasons of what you are asking for are wrong, and then move onto "but I didn't say anything about rewriting code or B.Net integration, I asked where your proof is that they can't do it or move resources!"
Very simply put, Blizzard will not move resources from ongoing IP's that are moving forward and evolving, to star work on going backwards. Before you ask me where my proof is, it's very simply put like this: my proof is the fact that they are not doing it. You ask us "why they couldn't do that," to which you are given many answers of the massive undertaking it would be and why Blizzard would not be inclined to do it, and then ask for proof in that matter, and then argue the very reasons and proof given to you.
When I say you talked about nothing else is the simple matter that your post is almost identical in the statements you've made with the exception of the B.Net topic. Your posts are nothing more than stating "I never said that" (in which your posts imply just the things people respond to you with), or "I never said anything like that." The only thing new from your post about B.Net that had anything different from previous posts, in context, was the B.Net topic itself. You discussed nothing new in your post other than B.Net, making that post have nothing new to the conversation other than the topic of B.Net.

[Vineri]

"Why would they need to develop WoW again? It makes no sense. Why wouldn't they, assuming they decided to go ahead with Legacy servers, move people to legacy from projects that have been completed rather than ongoing ones? Why wouldn't people who work within Blizzard have the skills to work on Classic Wow? Is there some sort of special skill set needed?"-Pann's post from page 1455.
You ask what proof was provided, to which the obvious answer was Otexaphon's (I believe) post of the Blizzard and Nost press releases, and I later posted a very small list of things to consider that would need worked on. I also added that they probably have some of that saved, and some of it not. Blizzards own post stated they would have to work backwards in order to get a Vanilla Legacy server working, and they do not have all the code. The list I provided doesn't even cover many of the things they would have to deal with, just a minor list of obvious things I thought of in a few seconds.
As far as you being vague, you ask things like "why can't Blizzard move resources," and "where is your proof?" You are then given very clear reasons of what you are asking for are wrong, and then move onto "but I didn't say anything about rewriting code or B.Net integration, I asked where your proof is that they can't do it or move resources!"
Very simply put, Blizzard will not move resources from ongoing IP's that are moving forward and evolving, to star work on going backwards. Before you ask me where my proof is, it's very simply put like this: my proof is the fact that they are not doing it. You ask us "why they couldn't do that," to which you are given many answers of the massive undertaking it would be and why Blizzard would not be inclined to do it, and then ask for proof in that matter, and then argue the very reasons and proof given to you.
When I say you talked about nothing else is the simple matter that your post is almost identical in the statements you've made with the exception of the B.Net topic. Your posts are nothing more than stating "I never said that" (in which your posts imply just the things people respond to you with), or "I never said anything like that." The only thing new from your post about B.Net that had anything different from previous posts, in context, was the B.Net topic itself. You discussed nothing new in your post other than B.Net, making that post have nothing new to the conversation other than the topic of B.Net.

It does not take a brain doctor to realize that current WoW is without luster. Some may even call it lackluster. It's really a matter of opinion, and if you thought a long post gave you more clout .. no.

Your post was still a matter of opinion. I'd rather see Legacy servers happen.

I'd love to have a discussion, but reading this, there is nothing? What a waste.

[Kyanion]

It does not take a brain doctor to realize that current WoW is without luster. Some may even call it lackluster. It's really a matter of opinion, and if you thought a long post gave you more clout .. no.

Your post was still a matter of opinion. I'd rather see Legacy servers happen.

I'd love to have a discussion, but reading this, there is nothing? What a waste.

Speaking of nothing.

Pre-Patch hits Tuesday, expansion little over a month out. You say no luster and I say there is an expansion coming out. We'll be playing Legion while you piss and moan about Legacy.

[Vineri]

Speaking of nothing.

Pre-Patch hits Tuesday, expansion little over a month out. You say no luster and I say there is an expansion coming out. We'll be playing Legion while you piss and moan about Legacy.

Why do I suspect you'll still be posting ... (instead of playing) .. ...

[Kyanion]

Why do I suspect you'll still be posting ... (instead of playing) .. ...

*pats you on the head* See I can do multiple things at once. I can play WoW pre-patch Legion, I can read forums, I can post in forums, watch streams, etc. Your chain of events is NOT play on Legacy realms, read forums, post in forums, etc.

I love how you have to take it to a personal attack because your 'What a waste' post got blown the fuck up. Stay classy.

[Vineri]

*pats you on the head* See I can do multiple things at once. I can play WoW pre-patch Legion, I can read forums, I can post in forums, watch streams, etc. Your chain of events is NOT play on Legacy realms, read forums, post in forums, etc.

I love how you have to take it to a personal attack because your 'What a waste' post got blown the fuck up. Stay classy.

I congratulate you. It still doesn't seem like you play very much in all that other activity? While all the time defending the retail game.

Legacy folks have all the time in the world. Interesting.

[Kyanion]

I congratulate you. It still doesn't seem like you play very much in all that other activity? While all the time defending the retail game.

Legacy folks have all the time in the world. Interesting.

Oh you over my shoulder looking at what I'm doing? That's funny, I'm able to alt tab/look at 2nd monitor because I am milling a few thousand herbs to turn into ink. I am getting my inscriptionist ready for the pre-patch, after that I go on my enchanter gathering select materials that I will need in Legion.

See you have all the time in the world because you can't play Legacy. I have plenty of time to do things because I know when I have open windows between activities on WoW. Come Tuesday there will be even more for people to do as we get ready for Legion. Tuesday for you will be just the same as any other day for you when you have no Legacy.

[Vineri]

Oh you over my shoulder looking at what I'm doing? That's funny, I'm able to alt tab/look at 2nd monitor because I am milling a few thousand herbs to turn into ink. I am getting my inscriptionist ready for the pre-patch, after that I go on my enchanter gathering select materials that I will need in Legion.

See you have all the time in the world because you can't play Legacy. I have plenty of time to do things because I know when I have open windows between activities on WoW. Come Tuesday there will be even more for people to do as we get ready for Legion. Tuesday for you will be just the same as any other day for you when you have no Legacy.

Oh you busy retailer, you. I'll just go back to looking at good times, thanks!

[Kyanion]

Oh you busy retailer, you. I'll just go back to looking at good times, thanks!

*pats you on the head* Hey its cool, I was doing tradeskill stuff in Vanilla between raids and dungeons, I was doing it in TBC and the expansion after and the one after that. Somewhere along the way you stopped playing though and here we are. You sad about not having Legacy and me doing my thing on retail. One of us is having a good time and here is a hint for you: It isn't you.

Cracks me the fuck up though. You accuse me of not playing retail. When you find out I am indeed playing retail and quite busy you try to insult me by saying I am playing retail. Your last 3 posts in this thread sum your entire agenda in this entire thread. You look really sad. It isn't a good look.

[Perkunas]

Why do I suspect you'll still be posting ... (instead of playing) .. ...

To be fair the beta is far and away more entertaining than Warlords. Frankly, fishing is more entertaining than WoD even without beer. WoD was a terrible expansion, MoP was a terrible expansion, Cata was a terrible expansion. Eventually they've got to get one right... The artifact quests alone in Legion have more valuable lore and are (subjectively) more fun than anything I did in WoD. Probably due to the fact that LoL-time travel was the foundation and timewarps are a moronic filler ploy.

[Eapoe]

It does not take a brain doctor to realize that current WoW is without luster. Some may even call it lackluster. It's really a matter of opinion, and if you thought a long post gave you more clout .. no.

Your post was still a matter of opinion. I'd rather see Legacy servers happen.

I'd love to have a discussion, but reading this, there is nothing? What a waste.

And your post in response to my post happened why? I didn't state any opinions in that post, nor did I discuss the matter of current vs outdated. I had a very direct response to someone other than you to which you came in and added your 2 cents on a matter that was not even discussed. So was this a bad attempt at trolling or was it hoping to get people to not read the post for some strange reason?

[Bonkbonk100]

This thread is amazing.

[Pann]

"Why would they need to develop WoW again? It makes no sense. Why wouldn't they, assuming they decided to go ahead with Legacy servers, move people to legacy from projects that have been completed rather than ongoing ones? Why wouldn't people who work within Blizzard have the skills to work on Classic Wow? Is there some sort of special skill set needed?"-Pann's post from page 1455.
You ask what proof was provided, to which the obvious answer was Otexaphon's (I believe) post of the Blizzard and Nost press releases, and I later posted a very small list of things to consider that would need worked on. I also added that they probably have some of that saved, and some of it not. Blizzards own post stated they would have to work backwards in order to get a Vanilla Legacy server working, and they do not have all the code. The list I provided doesn't even cover many of the things they would have to deal with, just a minor list of obvious things I thought of in a few seconds.
As far as you being vague, you ask things like "why can't Blizzard move resources," and "where is your proof?" You are then given very clear reasons of what you are asking for are wrong, and then move onto "but I didn't say anything about rewriting code or B.Net integration, I asked where your proof is that they can't do it or move resources!"
Very simply put, Blizzard will not move resources from ongoing IP's that are moving forward and evolving, to star work on going backwards. Before you ask me where my proof is, it's very simply put like this: my proof is the fact that they are not doing it. You ask us "why they couldn't do that," to which you are given many answers of the massive undertaking it would be and why Blizzard would not be inclined to do it, and then ask for proof in that matter, and then argue the very reasons and proof given to you.
When I say you talked about nothing else is the simple matter that your post is almost identical in the statements you've made with the exception of the B.Net topic. Your posts are nothing more than stating "I never said that" (in which your posts imply just the things people respond to you with), or "I never said anything like that." The only thing new from your post about B.Net that had anything different from previous posts, in context, was the B.Net topic itself. You discussed nothing new in your post other than B.Net, making that post have nothing new to the conversation other than the topic of B.Net.

OtaXephon talks about a completely different topic to what I asked. And as I have already pointed my questions were largely rhetorical as no-one here can provide answers to them however the lack of knowledge and/or information on the subject does not stop certain people talking about Blizzard need or need not do.

I am not sure you know what the word vague means. Again, when you give me very clear reasons you are talking about a subject that you have no working knowledge of.

Oh, and please do not put sentences that I did not write in quotes.

I never said that they would move people or resources from ongoing projects. In fact I said it made no sense to move people from WoW, which is ongoing, when they could use people when they have finished the current project that they're working on. Seriously - reading - you should try it sometime.

I have read your paragraph about supposedly talking nothing else but Battlenet several times and it makes absolutely no sense.

My posts do state that I never said that, that is because people, like you, continue to reply to things that I never said. If you actually read what I wrote and replied to that I would not need to point out that you are replying to something that I did not write.

I know it is easier to argue against a point you've formulated yourself than what is actually on the screen in front of you but it makes for a rather boring and one sided conversation.

[Eapoe]

OtaXephon talks about a completely different topic to what I asked. And as I have already pointed my questions were largely rhetorical as no-one here can provide answers to them however the lack of knowledge and/or information on the subject does not stop certain people talking about Blizzard need or need not do.

I am not sure you know what the word vague means. Again, when you give me very clear reasons you are talking about a subject that you have no working knowledge of.

Oh, and please do not put sentences that I did not write in quotes.

I never said that they would move people or resources from ongoing projects. In fact I said it made no sense to move people from WoW, which is ongoing, when they could use people when they have finished the current project that they're working on. Seriously - reading - you should try it sometime.

I have read your paragraph about supposedly talking nothing else but Battlenet several times and it makes absolutely no sense.

My posts do state that I never said that, that is because people, like you, continue to reply to things that I never said. If you actually read what I wrote and replied to that I would not need to point out that you are replying to something that I did not write.

I know it is easier to argue against a point you've formulated yourself than what is actually on the screen in front of you but it makes for a rather boring and one sided conversation.

No, technically you said this: Why would they need to develop WoW again? It makes no sense. Why wouldn't they, assuming they decided to go ahead with Legacy servers, move people to legacy from projects that have been completed rather than ongoing ones? Why wouldn't people who work within Blizzard have the skills to work on Classic Wow? Is there some sort of special skill set needed?

So, going from your post, you talk about people being moved around to go work on Legacy. The issue is you imply that people are done working on projects. What has been stated many times is that all of their products are ongoing. They immediately start working on the next xpac the day the current one is released, not to mention the ongoing work they put into the current xpac. That's just for WoW.
D3 is ongoing and has changes thru the season and working towards the next. Overwatch is ongoing and always being worked on. The same is said for Hearthstone and HotS. So, you are in fact, suggesting once they complete a project there, to go work on Legacy, which takes the time and resources for them to be working on the ongoing further implementation and updates of the current games.
Did you specifically say "move them?" No, but the fact you say "why wouldn't they move them once a project is completed," means taking them from working on the other projects they have lined up or improving upon what has been done from a previous designer.
If you want to say you never said that, then that's fine, but do not imply something, just to have another person show you the opposite and then hold onto the hope of saying "I never said that" is a valid follow up. Obviously, if you hadn't had the implications inflected by what you typed, people wouldn't respond the way they do. If you have nothing new to say and repeat the same thing over and over every post, the basic focus of your point is what is new on it that you have yet to discuss. So in your paragraph, the only new thing you spoke of and brought to the conversation was trying to say "I never mentioned B.Net." to which I even replied a correction from my last post; yet, here you are saying the same things and not discussing the topics at hand which have been brought to your attention.

[Pann]

No, technically you said this: Why would they need to develop WoW again? It makes no sense. Why wouldn't they, assuming they decided to go ahead with Legacy servers, move people to legacy from projects that have been completed rather than ongoing ones? Why wouldn't people who work within Blizzard have the skills to work on Classic Wow? Is there some sort of special skill set needed?

So, going from your post, you talk about people being moved around to go work on Legacy. The issue is you imply that people are done working on projects. What has been stated many times is that all of their products are ongoing. They immediately start working on the next xpac the day the current one is released, not to mention the ongoing work they put into the current xpac. That's just for WoW.
D3 is ongoing and has changes thru the season and working towards the next. Overwatch is ongoing and always being worked on. The same is said for Hearthstone and HotS. So, you are in fact, suggesting once they complete a project there, to go work on Legacy, which takes the time and resources for them to be working on the ongoing further implementation and updates of the current games.
Did you specifically say "move them?" No, but the fact you say "why wouldn't they move them once a project is completed," means taking them from working on the other projects they have lined up or improving upon what has been done from a previous designer.
If you want to say you never said that, then that's fine, but do not imply something, just to have another person show you the opposite and then hold onto the hope of saying "I never said that" is a valid follow up. Obviously, if you hadn't had the implications inflected by what you typed, people wouldn't respond the way they do. If you have nothing new to say and repeat the same thing over and over every post, the basic focus of your point is what is new on it that you have yet to discuss. So in your paragraph, the only new thing you spoke of and brought to the conversation was trying to say "I never mentioned B.Net." to which I even replied a correction from my last post; yet, here you are saying the same things and not discussing the topics at hand which have been brought to your attention.

There is no technically about it.

Right? I did talk about people being moved to work on Legacy, if it did go ahead, this was within the context of the claim that only people working on WoW would be capable of working on a legacy service. What has been stated in this thread and what actually happens are more often than not two different things.

You are talking about the internal workings of Blizzard as if you actually know what goes on it Irvine when the reality could not be further from the truth.

But to briefly touch on a title like Overwatch, the amount of people needed to maintain it will be less than the amount of people needed to create it in the first place. This is why many developers within the gaming industry are employed on a per-project basis and the let go when the project they were contracted for is ready for release.

Moving someone on to a new project when they have completed their existing one does not mean taking them away from other projects that have been lined up. Seriously, if you don't understand what has been written then ask. But stop trying to put words in mouth.

Well I never said what you think I said although I did write the words you quoted. I did not imply that, at all, you've created that point in order to further your argument. I am sorry, your inability to read and respond to what has been written is your issue not mine.

Honestly I cannot workout what you're trying to say in your last paragraph, although it appears what I have to say whether it is new or not is of no concern to you as you'll just ignore what I've written and claim that I said something else.

[Eapoe]

There is no technically about it.

Right? I did talk about people being moved to work on Legacy, if it did go ahead, this was within the context of the claim that only people working on WoW would be capable of working on a legacy service. What has been stated in this thread and what actually happens are more often than not two different things.

You are talking about the internal workings of Blizzard as if you actually know what goes on it Irvine when the reality could not be further from the truth.

But to briefly touch on a title like Overwatch, the amount of people needed to maintain it will be less than the amount of people needed to create it in the first place. This is why many developers within the gaming industry are employed on a per-project basis and the let go when the project they were contracted for is ready for release.

Moving someone on to a new project when they have completed their existing one does not mean taking them away from other projects that have been lined up. Seriously, if you don't understand what has been written then ask. But stop trying to put words in mouth.

Well I never said what you think I said although I did write the words you quoted. I did not imply that, at all, you've created that point in order to further your argument. I am sorry, your inability to read and respond to what has been written is your issue not mine.

Honestly I cannot workout what you're trying to say in your last paragraph, although it appears what I have to say whether it is new or not is of no concern to you as you'll just ignore what I've written and claim that I said something else.

If you can not make out what I am saying in my last paragraph then you have addressed the issue for yourself: no comprehension.
Now, you say that I have no idea of the inner workings of blizzard and then go on to discuss the topic like you do. Let's also look at the history of the company itself...the people who designed WoW, read the designers, not only stayed on to maintain the game, but Blizzard has hired even MORE employees to continue the evolution of the game as well as the maintenance of it. It's also a fair assumption that the people who designed Overwatch are not only still working on it given the fact that there is new artwork being designed, new coding to write, and new heroes to introduce.
Now, obviously that applies to the lead design team, and as you say, some people are hired on a per project basis; however, that is usually done with coders and testers. You also state gaming industry, not WoW. While that holds more basis on a finite game, does not equally represent a game that is continually evolving and still going over 10 years.
Also, when dealing with contracts, you are hired to do the job you are contracted for. It's very likely that someone under contract has other contracts lined up, or seeking more lucrative deals once their job is complete. If you contract someone, and then want to rehire them under a new contract, that takes negotiations and scheduled arrangements. Blizzard can't just contract someone to do one thing and then "move" them to another project unless specified under a long term contract that they are willing to move around.
So by your own explanation of your experience of contractual reasoning, they still are not able to move people around on a project to project basis unless specified under the said contract that they can be as they are then let go with no gaurantee or obligation on the contract initiator's part to keep them on.

[Pann]

If you can not make out what I am saying in my last paragraph then you have addressed the issue for yourself: no comprehension.
Now, you say that I have no idea of the inner workings of blizzard and then go on to discuss the topic like you do. Let's also look at the history of the company itself...the people who designed WoW, read the designers, not only stayed on to maintain the game, but Blizzard has hired even MORE employees to continue the evolution of the game as well as the maintenance of it. It's also a fair assumption that the people who designed Overwatch are not only still working on it given the fact that there is new artwork being designed, new coding to write, and new heroes to introduce.
Now, obviously that applies to the lead design team, and as you say, some people are hired on a per project basis; however, that is usually done with coders and testers. You also state gaming industry, not WoW. While that holds more basis on a finite game, does not equally represent a game that is continually evolving and still going over 10 years.
Also, when dealing with contracts, you are hired to do the job you are contracted for. It's very likely that someone under contract has other contracts lined up, or seeking more lucrative deals once their job is complete. If you contract someone, and then want to rehire them under a new contract, that takes negotiations and scheduled arrangements. Blizzard can't just contract someone to do one thing and then "move" them to another project unless specified under a long term contract that they are willing to move around.
So by your own explanation of your experience of contractual reasoning, they still are not able to move people around on a project to project basis unless specified under the said contract that they can be as they are then let go with no gaurantee or obligation on the contract initiator's part to keep them on.

I did not discuss the inner workings of Blizzard, in fact I wrote one sentence that mentioned they are capable of working on more than one thing at a time and another saying that Overwatch would require less people working on it once it was finished. Neither point requires any sort special knowledge of what happens within Blizzard.

The designers of WoW stayed on to maintain the game? Really? Mark Kern went off to waste millions on a bus and is busy moaning about women and SWJs. Rob Pardo moved up to Executive Vice President of Game Design and then became Chief Creative Officer before leaving the company. Jeff Kaplan worked on Titan/Overwatch. Chris Metzen has switched between multiple projects.

Well you know what they say about assumption.

You've once again decided to attack your little strawman instead of my point and it is quite clear that you nothing about project management and it seems as if you believe that Blizzard are incapable of managing their employees or the projects they undertake. So I see little point continuing with this... I would say, conversation... but a conversation would imply some sort of two way interaction.

[Codezlol]

Guess what guys, no one knows if Blizz will release legacy servers! So trying to argue anything saying "this is how I KNOW they will or will not do it" makes about as much sense as trying to hunt quail after a case of beer, balancing on one foot with one eye shut. Would it be fun? Yeah, probably. But you're not gonna hit the mark.

We will find out down the road when Blizzard releases an announcement saying either yes or no. There will be an announcement either way, that I can assure.

I am personally for them, for various personal reasons, but I can see why some people aren't as well. Ultimately the decision is up to Blizzard, it is their game after all. They have reasons to do it because a decent chunk of their community does indeed want it, so as a company, they do listen to their customers. On the other hand, they have reasons to not do it, because it is resources used up that they could otherwise use on their current version of the game.

I just wish there wasn't so much tension between people that enjoy the older version of the game and people that enjoy the current version, or people that enjoy both. I don't play the current game because simply, it isn't for me, it has went in a direction I don't personally want to be a part of. But others like it! And I have no problem with that, they're having fun and that's all that matters!

[Tackhisis]

Blizzard releases an announcement saying either yes or no. There will be an announcement either way

Blizzard is being announcing NO for several years now. People just don't want to realize that no one is going to do a hard and ungrateful job for a bunch of whiny freeloaders that has been stealing from the company for years.