Josh Mosqueira leaves D3

[Coldkil]

We'll whats bad about that? Anyway they should never had removed the AH....10 auctions posted limit was also fine.

Only if they wow to never ever design their itemization systems around it again. Having a system where you were literally meant to get your gear via the AH is the worst feature I have ever seen in any game.

I'll try to be as short as possible.

Diablo is an efficiency game. Vanilla AH was a plague - loot was scarce, random as hell and most stuff was useless. AH was the only sensible way to get geared for Act4 Inferno until you liked to be walled into act1 or 2 to farm for a self found character.
D2 trading worked because you could do everything in game even as self found (while you were slower) while in D3 if you didn't had gear, you were effectively locked out of the "endgame".

After AH ditching and loot 2.0 we have reached an opposite situation in D3, where farming gear is even too easy for my standards. In current environment, AH is next to useless since gear is not an issue at all. AH would require a more balanced drop/farm situation to be effective.

But then the biggest problem arises: which one will be the most efficient way to get gear? If it's AH, people would just farm gold/resources to buy gear and not hunt for items, which should be the game core (one of the reasons AH was scrapped); if it's farming normally, AH won't have a purpose.

The whole problem is how the game is structured - AH has simply no place in D3. Also, between a missed feature and third party sites selling stuff, i'd go for the first option personally.

I have absolutely zero interest in trading in a game like D3. But it's my point of view and i understand why people would like it back.

[Djuntas]

I'll try to be as short as possible.

Diablo is an efficiency game. Vanilla AH was a plague - loot was scarce, random as hell and most stuff was useless. AH was the only sensible way to get geared for Act4 Inferno until you liked to be walled into act1 or 2 to farm for a self found character.
D2 trading worked because you could do everything in game even as self found (while you were slower) while in D3 if you didn't had gear, you were effectively locked out of the "endgame".

After AH ditching and loot 2.0 we have reached an opposite situation in D3, where farming gear is even too easy for my standards. In current environment, AH is next to useless since gear is not an issue at all. AH would require a more balanced drop/farm situation to be effective.

But then the biggest problem arises: which one will be the most efficient way to get gear? If it's AH, people would just farm gold/resources to buy gear and not hunt for items, which should be the game core (one of the reasons AH was scrapped); if it's farming normally, AH won't have a purpose.

The whole problem is how the game is structured - AH has simply no place in D3. Also, between a missed feature and third party sites selling stuff, i'd go for the first option personally.

I have absolutely zero interest in trading in a game like D3. But it's my point of view and i understand why people would like it back.

Thats cool, reasonable view What made trading good in Diablo 2, is that loot was just that hard to get. I think if we reverted back to drop rates as bad as Diablo 2 it would make great sense. Anyway I will always be a trader....I bump my threads on JSP happily, good community over there as well, and that is what diablo 3 is missing...something that brings players together....social functions/interacting.

Trading also helped so much in Diablo 2 with the hole botting scene making insane items like runewords be possible to get.

[Faesroll]

if i want to play diablo i want to slay monsters, not hunt items on the auction house or forums

[oplawlz]

I daresay Blizzard has the metrics to show that no matter how much they incetivize the social aspects of diablo the vast majority of players are going to play it solo, or with one to two friends. A loot system that doesn't allow players to be self-sufficient is hugely detrimental to such a large percentage of the playerbase that the benefits for those who enjoyed trading are simply not worth the cost.

In other words: the current loot system is fine exactly how it is. If you want a piece of gear you grind until you get it - that's the whole premise of dungeon crawlers.

[Coldkil]

Thats cool, reasonable view What made trading good in Diablo 2, is that loot was just that hard to get. I think if we reverted back to drop rates as bad as Diablo 2 it would make great sense. Anyway I will always be a trader....I bump my threads on JSP happily, good community over there as well, and that is what diablo 3 is missing...something that brings players together....social functions/interacting.

Trading also helped so much in Diablo 2 with the hole botting scene making insane items like runewords be possible to get.

Yeah, which somehow makes me think devs at the time just balanced it out overtime counting how most stuff was farmed by bots - hence ultrarare stuff wasn't so rare anymore.

Anyway i come from a completely self found player in D2. Hell, i did farm 2 Grandfathers on my barb just because reasons.

- - - Updated - - -

In other words: the current loot system is fine exactly how it is. If you want a piece of gear you grind until you get it - that's the whole premise of dungeon crawlers.

imho it's a little skewed over the "too fast" side. But given how itemization is structured, i don't think there's any real solution without doing loot 3.0 and getting rid of sets (meaning how they're currently implemented).

[Kazgrel]

imho it's a little skewed over the "too fast" side. But given how itemization is structured, i don't think there's any real solution without doing loot 3.0 and getting rid of sets (meaning how they're currently implemented).

That's probably the one thing that could get me back into playing, were they to go away from set bonuses pretty much being mandatory and move some (if not all) of those bonuses onto individual items. Yes, it could end up being a "set", where you get a bunch of different items that boost certain abilities, but to be able to mix and match them more freely could allow for more build diversity, which is something this game sorely needs. Wouldn't mind seeing the whole ancient legendary thing being tossed out the window, too. Nothing burned me out quicker than having a well itemized setup only to be in the predicament of "crap, all I need now is ancient version of exactly what I have". It's such a massive wall of diminished returns that it's easier (and more fun) to simply stop playing and go do something else.

[Coldkil]

-snip-

Whis is more or less my idea. Items sets are not wrong per se - but current they take most of the inventory slots and give you a premade set of ability to use which kinda sucks given how flexible the skill/rune system is. Also supposedly offset items are just some addition tailored towards a set that complements them adding basically nothing more thank XY% damage, so even less choices.

Sets imho should be 2 to 3 pieces that boost a single abilty plus some "generic sets" (e.g: your fire damage is increased by 2000%) so you can play mixup with them and actually come out with your build. It would be an hell to balance compared to now and won't solve the meta/best build thing, but it would be thousands times more interesting than now.

Atm the game is just logging in for journey rewards until you're one of the guys that plays ladders. There's not reason to play more, as nor items nor paragons are somethign to strive for or even needed.

[zito]

Sets literally ruined the creativity of the game by pigeon holding you into a specific build because said build does a % more. Most sets don't even make things interesting it's just a % more damage either by flat number increase or some kind of DoT that you'll never notice.

I really wish they would just grab the bull by the horn and do some fucking major changes and remove sets. Sets are the only fucking reason we got Torment 13 in the first place because of their stupid inflation and maybe after sets are dead they can bring back CC builds like in vanilla. I played a CC DH with poison grenades and it was a blast til they made CC worthless.

[Coldkil]

Removing sets will only have the result of making all classes run a single build, the one with the best legedary combo. Just look at LoN, whoch should have been promoting more builds and ended giving one additional build for each class, and not even the best one.

The point is that most people just go to the forum or website of choice and look for "patch2.X.Y BEST BUILD GR09827059+", while theorycrafters will invest all their resources itno discovering such build. You simply cannot avoid this.

However. Removing sets/making them way smaller and mixable will help an awful lot. Many more things to mix up, many more options to try. They don't even need to be perfectly on par, because most people don't play ladders. Item hunt would be much better as you won't need only 1 set to do everything, but will take more time to actually complete your build, while trying other stuff.

Another things that needs to be addressed anyway is the plethora of legendaries having a "X% weapon damage" proc. They scale really bad to the point they're simply ignored and constantly reworked, while they should be something viable for multiple builds being they not tied to any specific skill. Same goes for all the "Y% damage reduced" ones, which are mandatory and made only because your character needs to survive higher GRs.

[zito]

You can't have 3pc multiple sets because then people are just going to mix sets and nothing will have changed except for the amount of pieces it takes to make a set. If they reduced all the legendary sets to 3pc then everyone is just going to use legendary sets. Sets need to be removed. I don't mind like +exp sets for leveling or something fun like that but sets in general just have no build diversity.

Yea someone might google whats the best gear combo but getting that combo isn't guaranteed unlike class sets where they are handed to you on a silver platter and expect you to use it if you want to progress. If people were not pigeon holded into sets we wouldn't need GR 200 or w/e people are on now, inflated damage numbers, higher torment levels. The game would be more tame like it use to be. Hell an expansion wouldn't work at this point unless they are gonna do a stat squish.

[Deleted]

I've been playing a lot of Grim Dawn while waiting for the next season, and I really love how there's so many viable options for end game builds. I think a lot of that revolves about their skill system, and how gear can have "+1 to all skills in arcanist" giving a flat buff across your class no matter what build you've picked. There's still items that buff particular skills, and then the devotion system adds another level of customisation. Sure there's "ultimate" builds for each combo, but without the ladders the intense competition to have the absolute best build in the game isn't there.

A LoN build that's different from the rest, that might only reach T6, is perfectly fine, if you are happy playing T6. However, it is often the problem that knowing others are playing at much higher torment levels, or Grift levels, using sets or builds theorycrafted and posted online, is the problem. You can be made to feel like you are missing out on something if you are not playing at their level.

It's a case of beat them or join them.

[Coldkil]

@zito i think multiple small sets is good. The point is the bonuses that need to be either more generic or related to a single skill - much like legendaries - so mixing them means you're going for your build and you're not locked into a premade skillset defined by the gear you're wearing.
really, if i was in charge, i would have made sets work completely different: single pieces have each their legendary affix; gathering a full set unlocks a more generic power (which could be even not related to a single class). This means you can go for the set or just use a combo of different items to mix up all the effects you need/want.
@Jinna that's the entire point and the core problem. GD has builds, and gear complements them. D3 has gearsets that define builds, which is what's killing the game atm.

[urasim]

D3 while fun is not in a good place. The game is all around set pieces. It has gotten so bad that out of place builds that performed just as well, such as CC builds or support builds, get gutted.

The next expansion needs to happen and reset everything and there be a less focus on set pieces and more on build diversity. Hell set pieces are the main reason numbers got fucking inflated in the first place.

People complain about build diversity, but don't understand that at the very top there will always only be one or two best build per class. It's because there isn't a static end difficulty like there was with diablo2. In D2 you could make any build viable because the end game wasn't hard. Hell, you can do the hardest stuff naked in D2... In D3 you have to min/max to compete. That's what you're really complaining about.

There are also builds that only wear two set pieces in total(in d3). So, no it doesn't revolve around sets as much as it revolves around difficulty. All builds are viable for t13... You just can't do it as fast as the best build.

[Coldkil]

People complain about build diversity, but don't understand that at the very top there will always only be one or two best build per class. It's because there isn't a static end difficulty like there was with diablo2. In D2 you could make any build viable because the end game wasn't hard. Hell, you can do the hardest stuff naked in D2... In D3 you have to min/max to compete. That's what you're really complaining about.

There are also builds that only wear two set pieces in total(in d3). So, no it doesn't revolve around sets as much as it revolves around difficulty. All builds are viable for t13... You just can't do it as fast as the best build.

I think you're missing the point. Ladders and difficult-but-not-really endgame have nothing to do with build diversity. In fact, as you say, only one can be the best build.

The point is that everything revolves around a single set with a static skill setup which leaves nothing to the player. It's not true also that all builds are viable for t13 and it's only a matter of speed - without the right items you either miss damage or survivability to even step into it. Not counting the fact that getting geared is so fast now that there's literally nothing to stop you from getting to the endgame.

Build diversity can be achieved. While only one build may be the top on paper, being 2 or 3 GR apart is nothing - at high level, rift density and comp matters way more, and Paragon is what makes you progress forward. There's currently nothing difficult in D3 - meta was all about grouping everything and aoe them down while facetanking every single harmful ability excpet laser dildos.

While i can agree that top players are on a different level/mindset, the actual game difficulty is really low. Increased hp/damage doesn't make it more difficult, only a bigger meatshield.

[Deleted]

People complain about build diversity, but don't understand that at the very top there will always only be one or two best build per class. It's because there isn't a static end difficulty like there was with diablo2. In D2 you could make any build viable because the end game wasn't hard. Hell, you can do the hardest stuff naked in D2... In D3 you have to min/max to compete. That's what you're really complaining about.

There are also builds that only wear two set pieces in total(in d3). So, no it doesn't revolve around sets as much as it revolves around difficulty. All builds are viable for t13... You just can't do it as fast as the best build.

Agreed, I've seen the same in GD. There is a compilation thread of builds on their forum. And they really only have 2 questions, is it ultimate viable, is it hardcore viable.

Grift progression has made it much more important that we find the absolute ultimate build and gear combinations in D3. However, I personally (recently) only care about the season journey. As long as the build can complete that, I'm fine with it. Despite playing wizard the last 2 seasons I've yet to play the Twister build, because it just isn't fun. I completed Season 6 using a variation of the flashfire build and enjoyed it immensely. I found I had no inclination to push grift and do the whole Caldesaan upgrade treadmill that would go with it. I did just enough gear upgrading to enable completion of grift 75.

I'm mostly happy with the state of D3, but I do feel that once I get the final stash tab unlock, I'll probably put D3 on hold until there something meaningful to get from the game, like a new expansion. The Cosmetics are not enough for me.

[urasim]

The point is that everything revolves around a single set with a static skill setup which leaves nothing to the player.

That's only true at the very top. And that's ONLY true because it's not static difficulty. Every build is viable in as least greater rift 60 and below.

Name a single spec that can't do greater rift 60. Go on I'll wait.

Game difficulty low? D2 you can kill everything naked pretty much. There are videos proving this. In D3 you need the gear and skill to do the hardest things. D3 is harder than D2. You can't jump into a greater rift 60 with a brand new character. If the game was static people would never complain about build diversity because every build could beat it.

[Beet]

Finally.

Now we can at last get rid of this boooooooring game of endless grind (without trading).

Bring back the Gold Auction House and trading ASAP.

Trading? Sure. Auction house? Fuck that.

D2 was amazing because we made our own economy with trades using in game items. Using an AH...not again.

But yeah with him leaving it makes me wonder if there will even be another expansion. I have my doubts. If they don't announce it at Blizzcon that guarantees there won't be.

[zito]

People complain about build diversity, but don't understand that at the very top there will always only be one or two best build per class. It's because there isn't a static end difficulty like there was with diablo2. In D2 you could make any build viable because the end game wasn't hard. Hell, you can do the hardest stuff naked in D2... In D3 you have to min/max to compete. That's what you're really complaining about.

There are also builds that only wear two set pieces in total(in d3). So, no it doesn't revolve around sets as much as it revolves around difficulty. All builds are viable for t13... You just can't do it as fast as the best build.

Except that sets widen the gap immensely. If there was no sets yea there will be a top build but it wont be out performing others to the point of uselessness like sets do now. The game is balanced around set pieces now. The only reason they make other gear is because sets only take up 6 slots.

The point is the bonuses that need to be either more generic or related to a single skill

It's not going to work it's just going to have the same results as sets do now. Sets in general widen the gap too much no matter how many pieces they require. They either need to not exist or be generic or niche like magic find and exp

[urasim]

Except that sets widen the gap immensely. If there was no sets yea there will be a top build but it wont be out performing others to the point of uselessness like sets do now. The game is balanced around set pieces now. The only reason they make other gear is because sets only take up 6 slots.

What is your actual complaint? That you have sets? The best of the best don't even use class sets. Last time I looked many classes had several different builds in the top 100. With all sets(and no sets at all) being able to push past 70 greater rift.

[zito]

What is your actual complaint? That you have sets? The best of the best don't even use class sets. Last time I looked many classes had several different builds in the top 100. With all sets(and no sets at all) being able to push past 70 greater rift.

Because of the legendary ring set lol

Sets kill build diversity and cause stat inflation and are generally boring. There is no point in them being here. Oh yea you took a 6pc to increase your fire DoT by 500000000% /yawn