Retribution is SO BAD AND DULL

[Eon Drache]

Yeeeaaaah that guy is so full of shit I can smell it all the way from Finland. Had to stop watching at around 6 minutes because he started sounding like a baby with a tantrum.

Blizzard is very well known for taking ideas that might be utter shit and refining it to make it better. That's exactly what they've done with Order Halls vs Garrisons. The World Quests are a good example of something bad, namely early MoP daily quests, and making it into something more interesting. In WoD you spent way too much time on garrisons, up to a point where you didn't really need to go outside even for gathering. Order Halls on the other hand are less than 5 minute trips in and then you're off into the world to do something else. In WoD the facebook game was full of missions where you had to return every 30-60 minutes to be efficient with it whereas in Legion the Scouting Board has missions that are hours long. People will whine about having to do it because of Class & Order Hall Campaings but honestly, gating it behind the scouting board is a convenient way of slowing down progression so people don't rush through it in a day.

The follower system is also cool since you actually do go on quests(class/order hall campaings) with them and you can assign some of them to accompany you all day. I don't know about you but I think it's cool to have the son of Turalyon, who I met day 1 in TBC, hanging around with me instead of some random cat npc I found in a cave.


I find it really funny how the two biggest complaints about Legion I've heard are both completely bullshit. Garrisons are not back in Legion and the prune did not ruin the game. Yet these kind of youtubers still spew shit out of their mouths about it as a desperate grab for views.

I'd like to think that world quests are just a refined version of the apexis quests that sent you out. World quests have more variety but same general thought process.

Anyway, my thought on ret is I like the "idea" of the new ret. The Retribution passive. Shield of Vengeance, slightly more melee oriented instead of all our attacks having 10+ Range on them (Still kind of have this), and buffing allies with strong blessings. But I feel that most of the changes were poorly put into place.

There shouldn't be a damage increase blessing. Kings and Wisdom are fine. Maybe a Sacrifice one where 10% of the damage 1 target takes all fight is redirected to the paladin and can't be mitigated. Just Blessing of Might is bad design imo.

Equality is the right idea but it rewards bad gameplay. Stand in shit and kill yourself to do more damage is horrible. It stresses your healers and can be really hard to balance in the end. Look how much it had to change and I don't know anyone looking forward to it.

They took Divine Protection and gave us a crappy shield It absorbs very little for a long cooldown and outside of Divine Shield, it's our only defensive.

The new mastery is more interactive than the old one but that doesn't mean more fun. I HATE the mastery. It will be a pain in the ass (Inquisition on roids) type mastery at the start and a passive buff near the end when we actually have all that haste.

Half our talents are obvious choices where it isn't a choice but rather "Single target or AoE" or just "This is the ONLY dps talent" The Artifact tree is really boring, too. Ashes to Ashes shouldn't be a thing. Wake of Ashes feels naked without having that 5 HP baked in. I don't really care about the dot but the 5 HP makes or breaks the talent. The other golden dragon talents are ok? Passive dps increases that don't do anything cool. And all the little talents don't change anything either. 5% damage or crit or smaller CD on this or that. Look at Protection. Stuff interacts. Stand in your own Conc and you get stuff to AoE rather than single target.

[Deleted]

actually totally false and depending on cooldown.

You can judge at 3, 4 or 5 HP depending on spells CDs. Thats' where the difference between bad and good ret will show : judgement delays.

Not really, you judge on cd. 30% haste is pretty much what you need to keep it up except for the last gcd where you are going to press judgment again.

[JohnnyRockets]

I think they meant it when they said: " We already gave you Ashbringer, what else do you want? " In their April's fools joke.

[Deleted]

I think they meant it when they said: " We already gave you Ashbringer, what else do you want? " In their April's fools joke.

Very accurate

[Deleted]

Ret: The return of the levelling/questing spec. Because I'm sure as fuck not going to do anything else with it.

[Pull My Finger]

Whine, bohoo, lots of caps.

I like it better than Ret on live and the talents are pretty cool.

[Deleted]

Whine, bohoo, lots of caps.

I like it better than Ret on live and the talents are pretty cool.

Woohoo guys, this dude ended the squabble by his omnipotent power of arguments. The logic behind this sentence, his arguments and sharp eye for details prove us poor whiners wrong instantly. Now i feel ashamed for not seeing the true potential of this new ret paladin. Damn.

/sarcasm off

Why everyone who says that spec is fun cant explain what exactly the "fun" ?

Yea, i wonder too.

[Pull My Finger]

Woohoo guys, this dude ended the squabble by his omnipotent power of arguments. The logic behind this sentence, his arguments and sharp eye for details prove us poor whiners wrong instantly. Now i feel ashamed for not seeing the true potential of this new ret paladin. Damn.

I guess you don't realize what fool you're making of yourself, whining and complaining about the sharpness of my arguments, considering the OP I was referring to. You really out-oafed yourself on this one, congratulations!

Bohoo, you're butthurt and I'm not! Scandal!

[Deleted]

Woohoo guys, this dude ended the squabble by his omnipotent power of arguments. The logic behind this sentence, his arguments and sharp eye for details prove us poor whiners wrong instantly. Now i feel ashamed for not seeing the true potential of this new ret paladin. Damn.

/sarcasm off



Yea, i wonder too.

Why would the description why someone finds something "fun" change your view of the same thing? Why do you define what is fun and anybody not agreeing with you is bashed with sarcarstic comments? Behave.

[Theholypally]

actually totally false and depending on cooldown.

You can judge at 3, 4 or 5 HP depending on spells CDs. Thats' where the difference between bad and good ret will show : judgement delays.

The sad thing is...its not false at all.

Ideally you can get 3, maybe 4 spenders out in one judgement duration (5hp, tv, cs, tv, 2hp generator, cs, tv, etc depending on cs proc if you have the talent or not that has a chance to reduce spender cost by 1)

From what ive gathered, using spenders without the judgement buff on the target would technically be a dps loss due to our new mastery.

So...you don't want to really judge until you're ready to spend something...so you would be waiting until at least 4 or 5 hp in order to get as much buffed spenders in as possible. Thats what makes sense at least, hopefully it isn't that "basic" when it goes live.

EDIT: forgot to add that this is how it will probably look until the appropriate level of haste is reached (if possible) to be able to keep judgment up all the time

[Heldamon]

Paladin design team: "What to do, what to do, what to do.....", "Give them Ashbringer!"

Job done.

[Daystone]

After doing a lot of reading here and on other forums, as well as testing on the PTR, the big question I have is as following:
Is there ANY hope at all that there will be gameplay changes between now and say, 1 month into Legion? -Or "should" I switch to my Unholy DK and not regret it soon-ish after launch? I love my paladin, but you can read "gameplay changes" as drop Judgment down a pit that leads straight to hell.

[Kalisandra]

No more Blessing of Sacrifice, no more double Blessing of Freedom, no more Emancipate (which forces Ret to be selfish with the one Blessing of Freedom it does have), worse offheals(no more Selfless Healer), bad at target switching (reliance on judgement window for damage), and last but most certainly not least: absolute shit mobility.

Actually, if you look at Ret's PvP template, it has reduced finisher damage and very low amounts of Mastery. As a result the Judgment window isn't going to matter very much, as it'll be a fairly minor DPS increase over no debuff on the target. This shows just how unimportant that mechanic actually is to Blizzard's view of how Ret should be - they're happy to basically tune it away for PvP. So why are PvEers punished with the damned thing? Did we kill their favourite pet dragon?

This doesn't make all our other weakness go away, of course, and it reduces our capacity to burst hard - the only thing were were bringing to the party.

- - - Updated - - -

Looking cool is the ONLY reason Paladins have ever been popular in the first place. Ever since Vanilla Ret and Prot have been nothing but a poor mans Warriors yet people still played them because they're cool. Paladins often get the coolest tier sets too so it's almost impossible to look bad as a Paladin. On top of that, ask just about any random pleb Fury warrior why they're rerolling that in Legion and they'll say it's the animations.

I'm switching my Warrior to Fury (from Arms) for the simple reason that Arms is seriously lacking in survivability due to their only self-healing being Victory Rush and due to Colossus Smash being so RNG - it makes fighting stuff when questing really erratic.

[Snegovik]

Ret: The return of the levelling/questing spec. Because I'm sure as fuck not going to do anything else with it.

Lol pretty much nailed it...the sad truth from Blizzard's pov

- - - Updated - - -

After doing a lot of reading here and on other forums, as well as testing on the PTR, the big question I have is as following:
Is there ANY hope at all that there will be gameplay changes between now and say, 1 month into Legion? -Or "should" I switch to my Unholy DK and not regret it soon-ish after launch? I love my paladin, but you can read "gameplay changes" as drop Judgment down a pit that leads straight to hell.

the chance is there, but its sooo small u have a higher chance win a lottery and have 3 sum with play boy models than Blizzard making Ret Good, Fun, and Viable.

[Vpuh]

Is there ANY hope at all that there will be gameplay changes between now and say, 1 month into Legion?

No hope, maybe fix some problems with set bonuses in later patches, like "TV and DS reduces the remaining of J by 0.5sec"(i dream about it).
And more,in next expansion,with removed artifacts, all talent trees will be redesign again and new shit will come.

[The Prince]

It's funny how I'm not surprised over this... Deep inside I knew that the return of Kalgan would lead to something like this.

[Deleted]

It's funny how I'm not surprised over this... Deep inside I knew that the return of Kalgan would lead to something like this.

Do you figure I should be tweeting Tom Chilton for potentially greater effect? Currently @WatcherDev, @WarcraftDevs and @CM_lore, I really don't know for sure who is better to tweet at.

Edit: Nevermind, that guy doesn't use his twitter at all.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

As someone who still hasn't picked their main this is disconcerting. Ret/Prot Paladin was a possible choice.

[Deleted]

As someone who still hasn't picked their main this is disconcerting. Ret/Prot Paladin was a possible choice.

Hopefully the uproar when pre-patch hits will be large enough that we get changes. Otherwise, don't bother with ret, the talent tree is abysmal and the new spells are not satisfying whatsoever.

[Deleted]

As someone who still hasn't picked their main this is disconcerting. Ret/Prot Paladin was a possible choice.

Think of it this way: one less option makes the decision making process that little bit easier! Say "Thank you, Blizzard"!