[LEGION] Windwalker Discussion

[Deleted]

Is the Empowered Ring of the Kirin Tor gonna be worth getting?

I'd assume so, if only to get an extra teleport back to Dalaran tbh. Stats are alright for us as well, with mastery being the heavy stat on it.

I would say that it depends on what kind of content you will be doing and if you have the 250k to spare of course.

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Can it be that FoF is more dmg/chi spent hence its higher up in prio?

Im not questioning that FoF should be high up in the priority list when it comes to our rotation, Im only questioning that SotW isnt there at all when there are more than 4 targets.

FoF is 2650% of AP since the newest build over 4 seconds reduced by haste with a cd of 24 seconds reduced by haste, while SotW is 4500% of AP every 40 seconds and the cd is not reduced by haste if I recall correctly. This means that with 0% haste, you will be getting 2650%*2,5 of AP out of FoF every minute, while you will get 4500%*1,5 of AP out of SotW every minute. FoF = 6625% SotW = 6750%

Now, this is without any haste at all, and without taking into consideration that FoF pummels ALL targets within melee range of us for the duration.

Im not a theorycrafter, I leave that to Babylonius, Pandanaconda, Hinalover and others, but this is what I understand is the key to why we want to go for FoF over SotW.

[Aracs]

Can it be that FoF is more dmg/chi spent hence its higher up in prio?

I don't know, thats why I'm asking. The logs I saw, suggests that SotW hits harder than the whole FoF channel.

FoF is 2650% of AP since the newest build over 4 seconds reduced by haste with a cd of 24 seconds reduced by haste, while SotW is 4500% of AP every 40 seconds and the cd is not reduced by haste if I recall correctly. This means that with 0% haste, you will be getting 2650%*2,5 of AP out of FoF every minute, while you will get 4500%*1,5 of AP out of SotW every minute. FoF = 6625% SotW = 6750%

As I get SotW hits for 2250% of MH damage + 2250% of OH damage, it scales with AP through Weapon damage.

[Pandragon]

I'd assume so, if only to get an extra teleport back to Dalaran tbh. Stats are alright for us as well, with mastery being the heavy stat on it.

I would say that it depends on what kind of content you will be doing and if you have the 250k to spare of course.

yeah, im wondering cause i saw mastery will be good for us, and it has a lot of it. i got the 250k, and ill be raiding.

[Deleted]

yeah, im wondering cause i saw mastery will be good for us, and it has a lot of it. i got the 250k, and ill be raiding.

I can only speak for myself, but I will get it, mainly because its a big ilvl boost right from lvl 101 which makes levelling easier and you get that extra teleport.

Also, since it is one of two rings, I think it will take some time until you will replace this one.

And if you are wondering, I will also be raiding, going into mythic as soon as it opens.

[Pandragon]

I can only speak for myself, but I will get it, mainly because its a big ilvl boost right from lvl 101 which makes levelling easier and you get that extra teleport.

Also, since it is one of two rings, I think it will take some time until you will replace this one.

And if you are wondering, I will also be raiding, going into mythic as soon as it opens.

yeah the ilvl of it for leveling is very nice. im not sure how useful the teleport is though. i havent done max level on beta, but from the leveling i did do. i never found myself needing to go to dal in between hearth cds.

ill be going into mythic...whenever i can. i keep getting plagued with raid members who care more about their place on recount, then surviving mechanics. by the 5th attempt i got the mechanics down perfect, while people in my raid are still dying to avoidable stuff on attempt 20+. End up spending months trying to finish heroic.

[Darkoxa]

For the maestry was active, is madatory that cant repeat the spells, or if repeat spells no influeces in dps. I think that loss of dp is minimu, as Blackout kick and RSK up everytime.

Also when started the rotation chargue the Chi until have all hit combos no?

[Deleted]

FoF is 2650% of AP since the newest build over 4 seconds reduced by haste with a cd of 24 seconds reduced by haste, while SotW is 4500% of AP every 40 seconds and the cd is not reduced by haste if I recall correctly. This means that with 0% haste, you will be getting 2650%*2,5 of AP out of FoF every minute, while you will get 4500%*1,5 of AP out of SotW every minute. FoF = 6625% SotW = 6750%

With multiple targets, it's possible SCK can surpass SotW. So maybe keeping a few stacks through the single target styles and then spamming SCK results in higher damage than SotW, which would explain the APL. You can't compare the style directly with FoF, though. As someone already mentioned, it's weapon damage, not AP.

[Hinalover]

As someone else already stated, it's 4500% WDPS. Looking through the AMR sims made for the comparisons of bufffood/enchents, it seems that this results in SotW not really doing much damage compared to other styles. It's approximately at 2*BoK (while costing also 2 Chi compared to 1), and much lower than RSK / FoF. With multiple targets, SCK will most likely surpass SotW at a specific number of targets. Because SCK has no CD, it will likely result in SotW falling out completely.
It is a bit strange, considering the ability has a 40 seconds CD it should do a little more than the same value / Chi as BoK, which has no CD. But keep in mind, this always changes depending on the gear.

Most specifically Relics (think of them as item upgrades for your artifact that increases their item levels; which in turn increases their weapon dps). As for it's damage compared to other abilities, it does a fair amount, plus it does aoe damage which TP, BoK and RSK cannot do so there is that to consider.

[Aracs]

As someone else already stated, it's 4500% WDPS. Looking through the AMR sims made for the comparisons of bufffood/enchents, it seems that this results in SotW not really doing much damage compared to other styles. It's approximately at 2*BoK (while costing also 2 Chi compared to 1), and much lower than RSK / FoF. With multiple targets, SCK will most likely surpass SotW at a specific number of targets. Because SCK has no CD, it will likely result in SotW falling out completely.
It is a bit strange, considering the ability has a 40 seconds CD it should do a little more than the same value / Chi as BoK, which has no CD. But keep in mind, this always changes depending on the gear.

Check logs from LRF Nighthold. SotW hitting as hard as the whole FoF channel even on one target (if SotW scores a double crit it do 1.5 mil damage!). And also do it instantly and costs only 2 chi!
SotW scales of Weapon Damage, so you should consider at least ilvl 880 of fists (not default 750 ilvl) when doing simulations.

[Deleted]

[e] Just rechecked, and I'm stupid. SotW is mentioned two times in the logs, and I've only seen one of those. So.. disregard the BS I posted earlier.

[Babylonius]

Im not questioning that FoF should be high up in the priority list when it comes to our rotation, Im only questioning that SotW isnt there at all when there are more than 4 targets.

FoF is 2650% of AP since the newest build over 4 seconds reduced by haste with a cd of 24 seconds reduced by haste, while SotW is 4500% of AP every 40 seconds and the cd is not reduced by haste if I recall correctly. This means that with 0% haste, you will be getting 2650%*2,5 of AP out of FoF every minute, while you will get 4500%*1,5 of AP out of SotW every minute. FoF = 6625% SotW = 6750%

Now, this is without any haste at all, and without taking into consideration that FoF pummels ALL targets within melee range of us for the duration.

Im not a theorycrafter, I leave that to Babylonius, Pandanaconda, Hinalover and others, but this is what I understand is the key to why we want to go for FoF over SotW.

Ignore, I was apparently behind the times.

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Check logs from LRF Nighthold. SotW hitting as hard as the whole FoF channel even on one target (if SotW scores a double crit it do 1.5 mil damage!). And also do it instantly and costs only 2 chi!
SotW scales of Weapon Damage, so you should consider at least ilvl 880 of fists (not default 750 ilvl) when doing simulations.

When I ran my sims, the artifact is 903, so it doesn't get much stronger than that right now.

[Darkoxa]

When the spells more arrendable until start legion is FoF before that WDP or RSK?. I imagine thar Tiger palm is essential for hit combo

[Aracs]

When I ran my sims, the artifact is 903, so it doesn't get much stronger than that right now.

Then something is wrong in the sim, because according to the logs SotW on a single target hits approx for the same damage as FoF, remember SotW consist of two strikes MH and OH, which do separate damage but their total damage is ~same as the whole FoF channel.
Just tested on beta realm. 750 ilvl Fists without trinkets: FoF 4 hits + 1 crit ~555k dmg, SotW MH hit + OH crit ~540k dmg.

SotW doesn't scale with additional targets the way that FoF does in Legion it scales the way that FoF did in WoD. Right now FoF, RJW, Chi Burst, and SCK do 100% of their damage to each target they hit. SotW does 100% to the main target and 100%/N to each additional target, with N being the max targets hit. So if you hit 2 targets, SotW does 100% damage to one and 50% to the other, 3 targets is 100%, 33%, 33%. Because of this, it gets outscaled by the other abilities, quickly.

At 4 targets, FoF, RJW, SCK, and Chi Burst do 400% damage whereas SotW does 175% (100% + 25%*3). It doesn't stand a chance. SotW will get closer and closer to 200% damage, but never over.

Its behind FoF on the other priorities because FoF does more damage per chi, which is the best way to measure abilities for WW since Chi is the limiting factor in damage, not DPS. Comparing abilities by DPS or DPET only matters as you get closer to, and reach, GCD cap.

This is simply not true. Just tested on Beta PvP realm. SotW hits ALL targets for the FULL amount, apparently sim requires update.

[Hinalover]

This is simply not true. Just tested on Beta PvP realm. SotW hits ALL targets for the FULL amount, apparently sim requires update.

That must be a recent change. it was doing reduced damage about a month or so ago when I tested it. I'll run some tests to double check.

[Babylonius]

Then something is wrong in the sim, because according to the logs SotW on a single target hits approx for the same damage as FoF, remember SotW consist of two strikes MH and OH, which do separate damage but their total damage is ~same as the whole FoF channel.
Just tested on beta realm. 750 ilvl Fists without trinkets: FoF 4 hits + 1 crit ~555k dmg, SotW MH hit + OH crit ~540k dmg.

This is simply not true. Just tested on Beta PvP realm. SotW hits ALL targets for the FULL amount, apparently sim requires update.

Yeah, this is the first I've heard about it, and I dont' remember reading anything about it. Obviously that changes things.

[Deleted]

SotW doesn't scale with additional targets the way that FoF does in Legion it scales the way that FoF did in WoD. Right now FoF, RJW, Chi Burst, and SCK do 100% of their damage to each target they hit. SotW does 100% to the main target and 100%/N to each additional target, with N being the max targets hit. So if you hit 2 targets, SotW does 100% damage to one and 50% to the other, 3 targets is 100%, 33%, 33%. Because of this, it gets outscaled by the other abilities, quickly.

At 4 targets, FoF, RJW, SCK, and Chi Burst do 400% damage whereas SotW does 175% (100% + 25%*3). It doesn't stand a chance. SotW will get closer and closer to 200% damage, but never over.

Its behind FoF on the other priorities because FoF does more damage per chi, which is the best way to measure abilities for WW since Chi is the limiting factor in damage, not DPS. Comparing abilities by DPS or DPET only matters as you get closer to, and reach, GCD cap.

Thanks for clearing that up for us, and also good job on the new website, we needed one!

[Reapocalypse]

That must be a recent change. it was doing reduced damage about a month or so ago when I tested it. I'll run some tests to double check.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20747314610

"Strike of the Windlord deals 70% damage in PvP"

Must be something wrong there.

Edit: Nvm, read PvP and thought about PvP combat and not just the realm, my bad.

[Babylonius]

Thanks for clearing that up for us, and also good job on the new website, we needed one!

You can pretty much ignore what I said since apparently they stealth changed SotW to hit all targets for 100% damage, so its back up behind FoF in the rotation for all target numbers.

I adjusted the rotation accordingly: http://www.walkingthewind.com/guides/tldr/

[Zaxan]

You can pretty much ignore what I said since apparently they stealth changed SotW to hit all targets for 100% damage, so its back up behind FoF in the rotation for all target numbers.

I adjusted the rotation accordingly: http://www.walkingthewind.com/guides/tldr/

I don't see SEF in there...is that for a reason?

Also, does anyone know if SEF increases single target DPS at all in Legion now? The Tooltip changed saying it's 45% per Mirror instead of 33%...but it never specifies single target.

[Babylonius]

I don't see SEF in there...is that for a reason?

Also, does anyone know if SEF increases single target DPS at all in Legion now? The Tooltip changed saying it's 45% per Mirror instead of 33%...but it never specifies single target.

SEF isn't in there because its a cooldown, I'll probably add it back in later today.

As for your second question: http://www.walkingthewind.com/guides/faqs/#5