Talents and Zoom - blizzard, wtf?

[darkwarrior42]

Changing every talent you have in Wod costs 3,5g. The new tome has an absolute price bottom of 6g25s and will most likely be significantly more expensive then that.

Or you do it for free in any major town. Or in any inn in any zone. Or your garrison.

[MonsieuRoberts]

So there's potential for these things to get expensive, especially at the beginning. Is there no other way to change your talents outside of a city?

Why change the solo-talent reset thing we have now? Why not just add this tome in addition?

[Synadrasa]

So there's potential for these things to get expensive, especially at the beginning. Is there no other way to change your talents outside of a city?

Why change the solo-talent reset thing we have now? Why not just add this tome in addition?

They essentially don't want you changing your talents every single trash pull. Talents are much different in Legion. Talents tiers are no longer the same across the 3 talents like in WoD where talent tiers were individually allotted to a certain aspect of the game. For example a talent tier for aoe, single target etc. In Legion talents within the same tier are mixed and people would be forced to switch between every pack if they wanted to aoe/single target.

[MonsieuRoberts]

So the goal is to prevent us from changing talents literally every pull/encounter.

I suppose this achieves it. If I'm not going to HAVE to switch talents 10 times in an instance, maybe just once or twice, I'm fine with that. I think.

I suppose I'll find out soon!

[Mormolyce]

I can see where they're coming from with the zoom, as much as it'll inconvenience me and piss off a lot of long time players.

With the talents - they've actually removed the ability to retalent out in the wild? Honestly, Blizzard has never been able to let go of the idea that talents/specs should be fixed and that this is an important part of your identity. Just let go, if a player really identifies as a Holy Priest they'll do that themselves, you don't have to make it annoying for them to swap to Shadow when they need to.

When I read people complaining about the camera distance thing and not being able to see the environment as melee, I have to ask, do people not know that you can move the camera and look around?

Sure, I can see the dragon's left hip or its right hip or its butt :P

[darkwarrior42]

With the talents - they've actually removed the ability to retalent out in the wild? Honestly, Blizzard has never been able to let go of the idea that talents/specs should be fixed and that this is an important part of your identity. Just let go, if a player really identifies as a Holy Priest they'll do that themselves, you don't have to make it annoying for them to swap to Shadow when they need to.

You can swap specs just fine, you just can't change talents within a spec without going back to a town or using the new crafted tome.

And I do think, as Synadrasa said, that the point isn't to force you to identify with specific talents, but to get away from the idea that you're supposed to swap talents within your spec before every individual pull or encounter. (Some people still will, of course, they'll just need the crafted tomes to do it.)

[Mormolyce]

You need a "Tome of the Tranquil Mind" to change them outside of rested XP areas. When you activate one, you can freely change them for 60s.

The recipe for the tome is: 25x Simple Parchment, 10x Roseate Pigment (common), 1x Sallow Pigment (rare)

The absolute price bottom of the tome is 6g25s, which is the vendor price. Currently on Beta, there is a vendor selling it for 25g a piece, but wether or not that'll carry over is dubious.

Wait so, what's the problem? It costs more gold? Irrelevant to most players I'd say.

Personally I think they should remove the reagents period. Just a nuisance.

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You can swap specs just fine, you just can't change talents within a spec without going back to a town or using the new crafted tome.

And I do think, as Synadrasa said, that the point isn't to force you to identify with specific talents, but to get away from the idea that you're supposed to swap talents within your spec before every individual pull or encounter. (Some people still will, of course, they'll just need the crafted tomes to do it.)

Hmm, I don't think a few extra gold is going to deter anyone from that.

IMO, sounds like a half-measure that's not really going to satisfy either Blizzard's designers or players. Same state the talent-swapping solution has been in for as long as I remember :P

[darkwarrior42]

Hmm, I don't think a few extra gold is going to deter anyone from that.

IMO, sounds like a half-measure that's not really going to satisfy either Blizzard's designers or players. Same state the talent-swapping solution has been in for as long as I remember :P

Probably not, particularly not the serious raiders... but we do have a rather large influx of gold, so they have to find some way to suck it back out :-P

*shrug* I'm not really sure the new system will accomplish a ton, I just don't have a problem with it; it seems like it'll be easy enough to work with, and it gives scribes something to make in light of the complete overhaul of the glyph system (which may well have been part of the plan anyways).

[MonsieuRoberts]

Yeah, it'll just be a little more annoying\expensive initially. I think you're right.

[justjm]

Even on beta you can STILL zoom out camera a lot more than the actual limit on the slider inside the options menu. Try "/console CameraDistanceMaxFactor 1.9"
It's the current maximum and it's more than enough imo. I don't get the shitstorm that's been happening about this topic.

It's causing nausea for a lot of people? People on the beta forums, have given detailed reports, as to why they are actually facing issues and how the game is now a burden to them? Should they just quit after 12 years of playing the game, just because blizzard in its infinite wisdom decided to make a change?

[Tommy T]

Think you got this mixed up, the talent thing people got fairly accustomed to it once we got basically free tome of tranquil mind.

Camera change is one of the biggest fuck ups they have done the entire expansion, and if legion didnt look great otherwise I am sure this would cancel a crap ton of subs.

Never used the camera trick and I've been playing for years. Never even thought of needing to pan out even further.
Stop fucking moaning.

[darkwarrior42]

Never used the camera trick and I've been playing for years. Never even thought of needing to pan out even further.
Stop fucking moaning.

Translation: "I don't think this is a problem, and anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot because I'm always right."

Reasons for translation:
-No real arguments or reasons given.
-No indication of type of content or class played to provide basis for a lack of need to zoom out. .
-Assumes anyone who dislikes the change has no real reason for it (else it would not be referred to as "moaning").
-Has never thought about whether there might be ways to do things better, but still feels free to dismiss anyone who does things differently.

[Kinjin]

Zoom:
I understand how a new player wouldn't know to change the camera distance beyond the slider. But then again a new player wouldn't know how to change the actual slider. Are new players really impacted by that though? Is there some magical group of new players that got screwed because they jumped straight into content and failed because of camera distance? Seriously? If we don't really want them to be at a disadvantage there are all kinds of things we should be doing then. I mean why not just have them log in. Push a button to max level. Because as a new player they wouldn't have the advantage established players do on how the dungeon, questing, and leveling system work. Lets rain a brand new set of the highest gear in every slot the moment they login for the first time. Because someone who played longer would know that's better gear and have an advantage. Let's make every single npc in the game neutral because a new player wouldn't know they could be attacked. Whats next, remove every addon available on the internet by keeping the game non adjustable? Followed by the mind wipe patch so seasoned players forget everything they have learned about every part of the game? So new players won't be disadvantaged? They are disadvantaged because they are new. It certainly isn't the camera view. Yes those examples are ridiculous, they are no less so than Blizzard's official reasoning on the change. It's called playing, learning, and becoming experienced. There is an ocean of knowledge about the game that some new players may never learn. How does Blizzard propose to erase it all so a new player has to learn nothing, ever, or be disadvantaged?

They could have just extended it out. A new player would get more range and it would prevent the older players from being impacted. Instead they chose to impact the older players. When they make decisions like that it usually means there is a reason, they just don't want to be honest about it. If they don't want to be honest about it, it's probably not good.

Talents:
Blizzard spent a lot of time and money trying to convince the player base that the old talent system sucked and the new one would be fun and dynamic. While you can argue how accurate the final result actually is, they set them up specifically so it would be advantageous to change them for different situations. The talents were supposed to matter. Now they do enough for you to actually want to change them. So now I need to encounter that situation... then remove myself from it. Spend time running back to an inn. Change a talent. Run back? That's a complete failure of immersion and the stated purpose to even be able to change the talent. I don't think doing that to prop up a dead profession has any value for the players. Quite the opposite. May as well just bring back the old talent system that never changed. Oh wait we need to impact the entire player base to save a dead profession. One of the most idiotic decisions they have ever made.

[Mnesymne]

You can swap specs just fine, you just can't change talents within a spec without going back to a town or using the new crafted tome.

And I do think, as Synadrasa said, that the point isn't to force you to identify with specific talents, but to get away from the idea that you're supposed to swap talents within your spec before every individual pull or encounter. (Some people still will, of course, they'll just need the crafted tomes to do it.)

Yes, i'v tried to tell people this but it just end up being called a fanboy.

ATM talents dont mather since you can just change them whenever you need. Come legion you need to think ahead about what you need and plan your talents for that, or be prepared to pay to switch on the fly

[Fabinas]

FoV is an advantage, and a reason it has been limited in overwatch as well for 21:9 spects.
Its not a cheat, but it IS an enhancement

I dont believe it was the real reason either though, why they didnt jsut say we want the content to feel closer, IDK

Overwatch is not a MMO. Wrong example.

[Deleted]

Hi

Was just testing Legion on beta and ptr and two big questions came to my mind

1. Changing talents inside raid/instance won't be as easy and accessible as it used to be in WoD, am I right? How expensive will it be?

2. Why dafuq Blizzard removed macros to zoom out camera further than default? Like... what was wrong about it?

Both these matters have been discussed at length for months and already ages ago. Nice to see that even latecomers know how to whine at Blizz on forums that aren't Blizzard's.

[Fabinas]

Im actually impressed at the sheer number of players with a sudden case of motion sickness.

You should actually be impressed that Blizzard did the camera change and decided to screw all those players who had it, but didn't show up, because they had a fix.

[ManiaCCC]

Overwatch is not a MMO. Wrong example.

It is not. FoV even in MMORPG is advantage. Or I will ask. What part of advantage of FoV doesn't apply in MMORPG?

[Cannibalus]

And I bet that everyone else gets welfare gear and only you "deserve" the gear. You are full of shit mate. The average player amends their play to make the most of what they are given. I am not even talking about good players here. It's gone. Quit or adjust. I prefer you quit.

I was speaking about the effort i put in to tweak my UI, not welfare gear...

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So you characterise anyone disagreeing with you as simply inferior.
They are bad simply because you say so, rather than you coming up with a good argument.
If this change is detrimental to people "like you", then hurry up and leave.
It is time that people seemingly so fed up with the game actually put their money where their mouth is, and found a better use for both.

As I said if this change was so "obvioiusly" wrong, why is nobody providing any evidence of it.
Perhaps because there is none to provide.

If i leave, who is going to boost "inferior" people then? If people like me leave and you have no end-content progression, which probably you know nothing about, then we're left with a dying game. Stating the obvious, again, the majority, the casuals, need to see geared and skilled people in order for the concept of "greatness" to have a face, to materialize.

[Deleted]

zoomout via makro was explained: it gives "unfairt" advantage to have a bigger viewpoint than for unexperienced non-makro users. so they increased standard zoomout and removed ultra zoomout by makro.


talentchoices are only choices if they can NOT be changed all the time just for some symbolic money.

choice means having to choose how your class will play, and somehow stick to it to a certain amount of time.

a choice that can always be changed isnt a choice at all. its just another kind of "temporery skill actionbar" for temporary access if its not limited in any way but for symbolic currency.