Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Rooflesstoofless]

poll would've been more interesting if it had 4 options instead of 2:

Yes, and I'm from the US.
No, and I'm from the US.
Yes and I'm from outside the US.
No and I'm from outside the US.

There should be a pre-qualifier too since most folks don't even know what an assault rifle actually is.

[TwoNineMarine]

There should be a pre-qualifier too since most folks don't even know what an assault rifle actually is.

It's the big scary black thing that shoots death at babies right?

[Mayhem]

I do not have a Constitutional right to have a house, car or property. It might be challenged in court I do and even make it to the Supreme Court. But it is clear I have the right ( Constitutional ) to bear and keep arms. But let me be clear, I do not agree with seizing someone's property because another person committed a crime unknown to you using it. But I do see why they would.

5th amendment?

nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation

This debate was started with the idea we can deny someone a firearm based on the assumption they may commit a crime because they are placed on a no fly status without due process.

Exactly, that´s why i linked you the supreme court decision that due process mustn´t always be met, despite it being a right.

[Traveler Voltin]

Nah you're right. Lets just give guns away for free then!

Nice extreme. /sarcasm

[Mayhem]

You're going to be hard pressed to argue logic with someone who doesn't think logically

This is just too easy. 1/10

[Traveler Voltin]

5th amendment?





Exactly, that´s why i linked you the supreme court decision that due process mustn´t always be met, despite it being a right.

5th is the right to not incriminate yourself

[Mayhem]

5th is the right to not incriminate yourself

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

...

[Stormdash]

Your 5th Amendment property right applies to any personal or real property, generally. Arms are the only tangible good that you have a freestanding, independent individual liberty interest in owning. So it is still more protected, not less, than anything else you own.

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In 5th Amendment terms, your firearms represent both "property" and "liberty" in the due process language. Your house or car or baseball is a property interest; Granddad's Lee-Enfield .303 is a property interest and a liberty interest.

[Mayhem]

Your 5th Amendment property right applies to any personal or real property, generally. Arms are the only tangible good that you have a freestanding, independent individual liberty interest in owning. So it is still more protected, not less, than anything else you own.

- - - Updated - - -

In 5th Amendment terms, your firearms represent both "property" and "liberty" in the due process language. Your house or car or baseball is a property interest; Granddad's Lee-Enfield .303 is a property interest and a liberty interest.

Is this like your opinion or is there a legal definition? It sounds odd that one right is more of a right than another right.

[Traveler Voltin]

...

like i said.
ever heard of the term "plead the 5th"?

[Ghostpanther]

Is this like your opinion or is there a legal definition? It sounds odd that one right is more of a right than another right.

I think he is right. It is right there along with freedom of religion and several other individual liberties.

Let me be blunt then. A simple no fly, no buy bill is not going to be passed in Congress and even if it did, would not survive a challenge in the courts unless it has a procedure attached for a due process before being placed on it or a way to challenge it in the courts. Time will prove who is right. I feel pretty comfortable with my position.

[Stormdash]

Is this like your opinion or is there a legal definition? It sounds odd that one right is more of a right than another right.

Pretty straight 1st year con law concepts. The language of the 5th Amendment -- "life, liberty, or property", are not idly placed. You have your life, obviously, and in due process terms, your due process rights are triggered where you have a "liberty" interest or a "property" interest at stake. Your liberty interests are... well, all your other rights. If you are given a secret gag order to prevent political speech with no opportunity to challenge it or notice of the basis, then your free speech liberty interest has been deprived you without due process of law.

Point being that your guns, like everything else you own, are "property" and therefore a "property" interest to you. But arms are unique in all the realm of personal property in that you also have a liberty interest in the ownership of it. So there are really two "due process" hurdles when it comes to firearms, so long as the government action being judged for due process is one that is considered a 2nd Amendment question (i.e. implicates the 2nd Amendment right). Not everything to do with firearms is, per se, a 2nd Amendment question, that was true even under Heller.

[lockedout]

Is this like your opinion or is there a legal definition? It sounds odd that one right is more of a right than another right.

You would think someone like you, a selfproclaimed CSI agent would know this.

[TITAN308]

So tempted to drop $350 on this for a new reloading station.

The top adjusts up to 10" - for those here that reload, you could see how this would be a pretty comfortable setup. To be able to stand instead of sit for short batches would be great too.



All that extra storage is just a bonus.

[Mayhem]

You would think someone like you, a selfproclaimed CSI agent would know this.

That´s up to lawyers not us, you do know that there´s a difference between judiciary and executive, well at least there should be.

[TITAN308]

Yup, so I let my wallet get the better of me. New work station under construction...



Now to peel off those fugly stickers.

[lockedout]

Yup, so I let my wallet get the better of me. New work station under construction...



Now to peel off those fugly stickers.

I have the same light thingy.

[Svifnymr]

I should get something like that, not for reloading, but just in general workbench. Might not be heavy enough for some of the wrenching and stuff, but still better than my current "find somewhere to brace" method.

[lockedout]

I should get something like that, not for reloading, but just in general workbench. Might not be heavy enough for some of the wrenching and stuff, but still better than my current "find somewhere to brace" method.

A good vice is a must have.

[Svifnymr]

I have a decent vice, but nothing dedicated to anchor it to.