[Enhancement] Future Legion Resources

[BiggestNoob]

Beta logs are not very good source, I asked for math.

They're the best source. The math is meaningless because it's most often wrong and the game isn't transparent. At best it's useful to figure out how to play or which talents are best in what scenarios. Doom Wolves is absolute shit in this patch, for instance, and it was quite strong in previous patches, but nobody's "math" has indicated this is or was going to be the case. Most of these predictions are wildly off of the numbers we actually see by people who reliably hit 99 and 100%s on live, and comparing the logs of these people is by far the only useful measure we have, on beta or live or anywhere else. Simcraft isn't as accurate as looking at statistics in logs:

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T18M.html

vs

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/8#dataset=99

Who you beat or not on beta also means nothing.

Yep, beating people with 99-100% ranks on live and in world top 10 guilds in mythic+s on beta means nothing. Do you even manage to get blue ranks on live?

Being beaten by a healer only means you are shit, because even on live a well played SV hunter, worst spec in game, can outdps tanks easily.

Uh, no. That's completely false. On beta tanks do tons of DPS as do resto druids. Good DPS classes do more, but ones that get nerfed over and over well below the bar for what is competitive don't. On live most tanks beat SV and PP beats most DPS.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...&spec=Survival

vs

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...pec=Brewmaster
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...pec=Protection
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ght&spec=Blood
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...&spec=Guardian

and hilariously

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...pec=Protection

And what fuckin' logs anyway? Care to link any rankings? warcraftlogs.com has no beta logs. But yeah, none of us can play Enh, only you ^^ Care to link your live logs at least?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/all/11
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/all/10
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/all/9

I've looked at thousands, probably closer to 10k beta logs at this point, and yes, 99% of you do play Enhance like garbage. Even watching good groups on streams who don't public log they're still behind.

[Karlz0rz]

Whilst I agree, there were a good number of nerfs which is why I held off on posting until the whole thing came out, some big offenders were left untouched which I can understand some finding grievance with.

Yeah, there were some classes that came out ahead, no doubt about it. I just don't like all this doom and gloom stuff going around :P.
The Doom Vortex change is very strange though, so no idea what is going on there.

[rdaccord]

Does anyone have a video of the animations for the artifact abilities? I only have access to PTR and it's hard to see the spell effects in raid streams and know which is from which source.

Also, what artifact route are we pursuing on release?

Here is an animation video word up put together to show the prettyness https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8SofNf1_wY

I believe wordup has the artifact tree set also in the googledoc and on of his alpha shaman video. If not finalboss coveres it in enhancement beta pass 2 youtube video

[Lucrece]

Here is an animation video word up put together to show the prettyness https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8SofNf1_wY

I believe wordup has the artifact tree set also in the googledoc and on of his alpha shaman video. If not finalboss coveres it in enhancement beta pass 2 youtube video

TY . Unfortunately that video is a tad updated. Feral kin no longer exists, and I was looking for videos of the elemental wolves and spikes you summon, things like that.

[Shadow Fox]

After the Nerf, Enhancement Shammies are still fairly strong from what I'm seeing on WarcraftLogs.

Though, Warcraft Logs seems to be screwy with the Filters; Select specifically for Enhancement Shaman data, and it gives me results for some groups that don't even have a Shaman.

[rdaccord]

TY . Unfortunately that video is a tad updated. Feral kin no longer exists, and I was looking for videos of the elemental wolves and spikes you summon, things like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8w3OKgsoU4

around 41 minutes for the elemental wolves. throughout the testing you will see the different spikes of fire/lighting pop up.

[Lucrece]

ty! That's perfect.

[rdaccord]

ty! That's perfect.

her is that upgrade path for the artifact http://puu.sh/pKPuK/5b17e055d1.png

[Lucrece]

Super nice graphic!

So, if I take boulderfist, am I encouraged to take Path B then?

[BentPencils]

Everyone is welcome to look at the logs or go in-game and experience it for a few hours. People championed the absolute gutting of DW in unbelievable stupidity meanwhile now when we blow all our CDs and have back-to-back SB procs during DW with Hailstorm active we're way behind most other classes in burst. That was just nerfed further with the nerf to wolves & Doom Wolves. I was losing to a resto druid in Feral affinity before this last patch and was 100k behind a fire mage with worse gear, and I beat every other Enhance shaman I've ever seen by a huge margin.

People who have no understanding of where this class is relative to others or what is and isn't OP are just not playing the game at all.

That's the really long way of saying 'No. I dont have any math to back up my claims'

- - - Updated - - -

{Snip - Post edited down to avoid text walls}
I've looked at thousands, probably closer to 10k beta logs at this point, and yes, 99% of you do play Enhance like garbage. Even watching good groups on streams who don't public log they're still behind.

And this is the REALLY REALLY long way of saying 'No. I dont have any math to backup my claims.'

- - - Updated - - -

I'll be updating my doc with the changes, but it hit at such a late hour and I'm pretty swamped between my own stuff and some other things being done that it's hit the backburner a bit. This also includes getting a central spot for pre-patch info specifics which will be up end of Monday ideally.

Thanks Wordup. You are very appreciated on these forums.

[Darkoxa]

Hi guys my question is after i am testing the enhacement is if the this class was buff o nerf.

In my opinion this class is buff, but if combine with artefact, also have a lot game in your talents, which do a class dynamic and
varaible

[Deleted]

I see some people want to be #1, at least 20% above the rest. I'm not the best theorycrafter, not a math guy either, but there must be some balance between abilities within the spec. Hopefuly all of the specs gonna be close each other, without +20% differences like in WoD. Going with that thinking, we need tweaks here and there to make our playstyle better. If 1 trait is 2x better than other there is a problem. If spell is obviously bugged, and you use the bug to deal more dmg I say remove the bug and make proper usage of abilities more valuable.

For example:

I don't want to use Lava Lash before Stormstrike (saw someone even said at some point we could not use SS at all ...)
I don't want to use Crash Lightning for single target (Destruction - Rain of Fire says hello). It's AOE ability and I want to use it when it's time for it. Feels like using Magma Totem (WotLK) for single target.
I don't want to get overwhelmed by Stormbringer procs when I use Crash Lightning.
I don't want to have useless Resource, without almost any influance to your rotation.

We should have the best spell (Stormstrike) to use when it comes off cooldown. Maintenance buff (Flametongue) to have high prio but after 1st aplication, you can use it just before the filler. Dump resource (Lava Lash) when it's close to cap and then filler. Talents should change the priority here and there, but basics should be kept till the very end of expansion. When I see something different I'm scared it's gonna pass through the beta and fuk up nice and clean playstyle. Want to have interesting rotation, high skill-cap and to think how I can improve my dps/performance on different encounters. When I reroled to Aff Warlock in early MoP I was stunned how many tricks you could use. I want similar thing for my shaman (In WoD we had some thanks to our great shamans)

[Emophia]

So are wolves just shit in general again?

I hope not, It's been disappointing how blizzard have been completely neutered them since wotlk ended.

[valkhy]

So are wolves just shit in general again?

I hope not, It's been disappointing how blizzard have been completely neutered them since wotlk ended.

Wolf been nerf for AOE but last patch was up in term of AP scaling if i recall (so better mono) to become an MONO CD and not an AOE CD.
Since it nerfed our AOE a little, they up by 33% the damage triggered on Crash lightning (somehow equal to before even with nerf on direct damage).


There is still two up in this "nerf wave":
Empowered Stormlash now increases Stormlash damage by 35% (was 20%)
Overcharge now causes Lightning Bolt to spend up to 45 Maelstrom (was 60).


For the SS nerf:
Hammer of Storms now increases Stormstrike damage by 8% (was 15%).
Stormstrike damage reduced by 5%.
Raging Storms now increases Stormstrike damage by 25% (was 30%).

Remember it has been buffed quite a lot recently (540% ->630% in two build) so nerf was expected.

[Deleted]

Wordup, are you going to make some more detailed guide to Enhancement before Legion goes live? After some testing I am a) really hyped for Enhancement in Legion and b) kind of confused with how exactly the priority list looks now, for example

1) is SS/SB SS an absolute priority second only to long CDs?
2) what are the priorities of FT/FB if HS refresh vs CL with Crashing Storm?
3) What is the priority of "Boulderfist to prevent BF charge capping" - for example, when Boulderfist should cap in the middle of SB proc chain, is it more important to continue with the Stormstrikes or cast BF?
4) AoE/Cleave priority list and talent preferences (i.e. is AS better than HS for Mythic+ trash clears and similar questons)

I would really appreciate any answers

[Nouk]

Im interested especially in the Overcharge Buff, i like the talent! It ate far too much Maelstrom before, leaving me resource starved when i wanted to use it on CD, so maybe its worth considering now. Any new numbers on it yet?

[Deleted]

Im interested especially in the Overcharge Buff, i like the talent! It ate far too much Maelstrom before, leaving me resource starved when i wanted to use it on CD, so maybe its worth considering now. Any new numbers on it yet?

After putting the new numbers to Wordup's calc, I see Overcharge being only ~2-3% below Tempest so if you like it, you can probably take it

[Huggykaze]

They're the best source. The math is meaningless because it's most often wrong and the game isn't transparent. At best it's useful to figure out how to play or which talents are best in what scenarios. Doom Wolves is absolute shit in this patch, for instance, and it was quite strong in previous patches, but nobody's "math" has indicated this is or was going to be the case. Most of these predictions are wildly off of the numbers we actually see by people who reliably hit 99 and 100%s on live, and comparing the logs of these people is by far the only useful measure we have, on beta or live or anywhere else. Simcraft isn't as accurate as looking at statistics in logs:

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T18M.html

vs

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/8#dataset=99

What do these have to do? Current logs are warped by speed kills anyway. Logs you've linked take all bosses into account (warped by AoE/Cleave), SimCraft results only show ST potential. Fight lengths also differ a lot by now. This is as far from comparison as your posts from informative. Furthermore, what you linked is the very cream of the crop and if you look at the upper limit of Enh's DPS in SimCraft it goes up by A LOT placing it in the top tier. So all you've proven is that you're wrong in this case.

Furthermore, genius, your elitist attitude implies that only a small % of players can play Enhancement, this said, logs are warped by players outside this small % and 10k sample of elite players is by no means representative.

Yep, beating people with 99-100% ranks on live and in world top 10 guilds in mythic+s on beta means nothing. Do you even manage to get blue ranks on live?

I asked for YOUR logs to prove that you are such a godlike player, be them live or beta. My ranks don't matter, I'm pretty average Shaman getting epic ranks mostly with some legendaries.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/all/11
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/all/10
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/all/9

I've looked at thousands, probably closer to 10k beta logs at this point, and yes, 99% of you do play Enhance like garbage. Even watching good groups on streams who don't public log they're still behind.

If you had time to look at 10k beta logs, I'm pretty sure you also had time to extrapolate the useful and meaningful data and present it, right? Or will you still use anecdotal evidence to back up your claims, that you and only you can play Enh correctly?

You might even be right, but the way you try to prove it, proves you are an idiot. Was fun while it lasted, hope it works out for you.

[Darkoxa]

After putting the new numbers to Wordup's calc, I see Overcharge being only ~2-3% below Tempest so if you like it, you can probably take it

Im interested especially in the Overcharge Buff, i like the talent! It ate far too much Maelstrom before, leaving me resource starved when i wanted to use it on CD, so maybe its worth considering now. Any new numbers on it yet?

I before Overchargue i prefer Tempest, as the 3 strikes of SS is worth, althought LB with Overchargue no is bad, but prefer Tempest

[Huggykaze]

After the Nerf, Enhancement Shammies are still fairly strong from what I'm seeing on WarcraftLogs.

Though, Warcraft Logs seems to be screwy with the Filters; Select specifically for Enhancement Shaman data, and it gives me results for some groups that don't even have a Shaman.

They might have had an Enh shaman during one of their wipes/kills :P