Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Deleted]

270k signs on the petition now.

[Ciddy]

the over 30 and over 60 comments as it pertains to legacy content is making this thread feel more and more like a geriatric and retiree friend finding community. the game has moved on evolve with it or quit its that simple lol

get-off-my-lawn.jpg

I was 20 when I started playing in 2005. I've mostly been fine with how the game has been going since then (aside from WoD).

But I do think the idea of being able to see the old world as it used to be is cool, and I will admit that I enjoyed playing on Nostalrius while it lasted. I've played on private servers that got boring very quickly because they were barren and didn't have populations. Nostalrius actually had a good population, and I didn't have too much difficulty (or any worse than I did in the live game, at least) finding party members for group quests or dungeons. When there were other people around to play it with, Classic WoW was a lot of fun.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

270k signs on the petition now.

Sadly I think if people signing it matter something would already be done. Not to say I don't think that one day in the future Blizzard will release classic servers, but I do think that day is going to be a ways off. Until then they likely will hunt and destroy any private servers that get big enough for their fancy. I don't really support them in doing this, but I also at the sametime totally understand why they do.

[Marakesh]

Sadly I think if people signing it matter something would already be done. Not to say I don't think that one day in the future Blizzard will release classic servers, but I do think that day is going to be a ways off. Until then they likely will hunt and destroy any private servers that get big enough for their fancy. I don't really support them in doing this, but I also at the sametime totally understand why they do.

They wouldn't announce anything before Legion, and probably not till Blizzcon. It makes no sense to say anything now. Personally, I think if they aren't working on it already and have something out by a year or so after Blizzcon, they will have missed the boat. Doing it 3+ years from now, the math might not be as good. If they are going to create legacy servers, this is the best window of time to do so.

[Jeniwyn]

They wouldn't announce anything before Legion, and probably not till Blizzcon. It makes no sense to say anything now. Personally, I think if they aren't working on it already and have something out by a year or so after Blizzcon, they will have missed the boat. Doing it 3+ years from now, the math might not be as good. If they are going to create legacy servers, this is the best window of time to do so.

Yes.

That would make a lot of sense. Even though it would also have made sense to bundle it with Legion, there really wasn't enough time given that they somehow managed to bungle their databases from back in the day. If they had that AND the source code it could possibly have been done.

Since Mark Kern, who I'm very grateful of for his help on this issue, was one of the people involved in developing the backup systems I guess he has to take some of the blame for making this harder for Blizzard than it should be. (How can there be no time-stamped backups of the data? It blows my freaking mind. It seems like an impossible oversight.)

How I'd love to get a more detailed explanation of what they have available, what is lost and what they have but is in a jumbled mess.

[Eapoe]

They wouldn't announce anything before Legion, and probably not till Blizzcon. It makes no sense to say anything now. Personally, I think if they aren't working on it already and have something out by a year or so after Blizzcon, they will have missed the boat. Doing it 3+ years from now, the math might not be as good. If they are going to create legacy servers, this is the best window of time to do so.

Haven't they already said no, multiple times? There was the flat out no years ago, another one after that, the infamous "you think you do..." and now the reply from both Nost and Blizzard saying how much work it would be, and if they could flip a switch and have it going they would. The implications of those posts point to it not even being worked on. I'm not trying to be a jerk or hurt people's feelings or ruin their hopes, but all signs point to it not happening any time soon.

[Marakesh]

Haven't they already said no, multiple times? There was the flat out no years ago, another one after that, the infamous "you think you do..." and now the reply from both Nost and Blizzard saying how much work it would be, and if they could flip a switch and have it going they would. The implications of those posts point to it not even being worked on. I'm not trying to be a jerk or hurt people's feelings or ruin their hopes, but all signs point to it not happening any time soon.

There was a clear "no" answer to this question up until Nost shutdown. You don't think the last answer was different? Before, there wasn't any question if they would work on making legacy servers, but this last response was a "maybe". You could interpret it all sorts of ways, no doubt. Like I said, if there's still nothing after Blizzcon is done, I don't think it matters what they do. 15+ years after release, the numbers will be much worse.

[Eapoe]

There was a clear "no" answer to this question up until Nost shutdown. You don't think the last answer was different? Before, there wasn't any question if they would work on making legacy servers, but this last response was a "maybe". You could interpret it all sorts of ways, no doubt. Like I said, if there's still nothing after Blizzcon is done, I don't think it matters what they do. 15+ years after release, the numbers will be much worse.

There wasn't a maybe...it was literally "we'd love to, but here's why we don't." There wasn't a maybe implied, just a false hope made up by wishful people that are trying to spin it into something it wasn't.
Now, I'm not saying they won't ever happen, but it is not likely to be anytime in the near future. Kind of the reason they left it a little open without giving a flat out "no." This lets them convey that they are not working on it but may do so in the future. One of the reasons Blizzard started their new policy of not dealing in absolutes. They learned that when they promise something that ends up being what they can't deliver on (that failed underwater raid for instance) that it opens them up to new issues and allegations by the player base of being bad designers.

[Pann]

There was a clear "no" answer to this question up until Nost shutdown. You don't think the last answer was different? Before, there wasn't any question if they would work on making legacy servers, but this last response was a "maybe". You could interpret it all sorts of ways, no doubt. Like I said, if there's still nothing after Blizzcon is done, I don't think it matters what they do. 15+ years after release, the numbers will be much worse.

I agree with much of what you're saying and I think you're right that Nost has forced them to re-evaluate their stance on Legacy servers. It may well be that the re-evaluation was completed with the meeting with the Nost team and the data they provided or it could still on-going. It is worth taking into consideration that re-evaluating a business decision does not mean that the original decision was not the right one to take.

It is also worth noting that at present the only announcement they can make with regard to Legacy servers is "Yes, we're doing them". That is not to say that they have no choice but to launch Legacy servers, far from it, only that there is no benefit, and a lot of potential drawbacks, in announcing that they have no plans to launch them so their best course of action is to say nothing.

Blizzcon would be a good time to make an announcement if that is their plan but I would be surprised if they did. I guess we'll all just have to wait and see.

[Vineri]

They wouldn't announce anything before Legion, and probably not till Blizzcon. It makes no sense to say anything now. Personally, I think if they aren't working on it already and have something out by a year or so after Blizzcon, they will have missed the boat. Doing it 3+ years from now, the math might not be as good. If they are going to create legacy servers, this is the best window of time to do so.

Sadly Blizzard may miss the boat. Look at the WoW Movie - It would have been a huge US / Europe success .. 3 years ago.

The movie made money, sure, in China. But in the wrong locale. Where every dollar equates to a nickel back to the US. Lovely! Bad foresight on Blizzards part.

The legacy market is here. Retail game trends down. Will Blizzard understand what is going on and why some people don't like their current product(s)? Will they fathom the idea that what they used to do was once better?

[Kithelle]

From legacy players perspective, the current wow version is the broken one.



That may be true, but nostalrius was almost like the old vanilla servers. Which is already satisfying enough. Especially if like blizzard said the original game is lost.

As for the lack of communication regarding legacy servers from blizzard, it is quite obvious they d want to focus on legion at this point , on a PR basis. If we hear more about legacy servers, it would be after legion release.

These posts make me laugh...it really amazes me nostalgia can completely cloud peoples views of things.

I mean it's like people saying their old rusting hunk of junk car is as good as the new models being put out...sure maybe your old car has a stronger body because it was made from different materials back then...but it's still old and falling apart.

Think your old car is superior because you don't like how cars are evolving...well just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's broken. Just means you're afraid or dislike change or flat out blinded by nostalgia.

But there is no point in really arguing...you're just going to stick your fingers in your ears, yell "LALALALAL", and pretend vanilla was this awesome game when it is nothing more than a aged piece of junk that was put together badly that has evolved over the years.

- - - Updated - - -

Sadly Blizzard may miss the boat. Look at the WoW Movie - It would have been a huge US / Europe success .. 3 years ago.

The movie made money, sure, in China. But in the wrong locale. Where every dollar equates to a nickel back to the US. Lovely! Bad foresight on Blizzards part.

The legacy market is here. Retail game trends down. Will Blizzard understand what is going on and why some people don't like their current product(s)? Will they fathom the idea that what they used to do was once better?

"What they used to do that was once better" Thanks...needed another good laugh after the shit filled day I had today.

[Vineri]

"What they used to do that was once better" Thanks...needed another good laugh after the shit filled day I had today.

Only someone who doesn't understand what a good RPG means will get "another good laugh". The real laugh is how people who don't like RPG's decided to play WoW, and then morph it into something unrecognizable for few to enjoy. Unless you consider enjoying being subbed a couple months a year, if that. .. in a game that nobody would unsub from, ever, in Legacy.

It's a case study into how to turn a successful MMORPG into an online come-and-go action adventure game, with questions about success - other than the cashshop makes Blizzard money. Subs? So low they stopped reporting. Blizzard is using the cashshop as a crutch. How proud retail fans must be.

[Kithelle]

Only someone who doesn't understand what a good RPG means will get "another good laugh". The real laugh is how people who don't like RPG's decided to play WoW, and then morph it into something unrecognizable for few to enjoy. Unless you consider enjoying being subbed a couple months a year, if that. .. in a game that nobody would unsub from, ever, in Legacy.

It's a case study into how to turn a successful MMORPG into an online come-and-go action adventure game, with questions about success - other than the cashshop makes Blizzard money. Subs? So low they stopped reporting. Blizzard is using the cashshop as a crutch. How proud retail fans must be.

And why did they go so low? I guess you think it's because it isn't vanilla so subs dropped? I'm sure it has nothing to do with WoD being the laziest expansion they have ever done?

If vanilla is so good then why have subs gone up and up and up till we hit this skid mark of a lazy expansion? Hmm?

But no...go on believing WoW is hurting right now just because it has evolved from that piece of junk called Vanilla.

[Kyanion]

Only someone who doesn't understand what a good RPG means will get "another good laugh". The real laugh is how people who don't like RPG's decided to play WoW, and then morph it into something unrecognizable for few to enjoy. Unless you consider enjoying being subbed a couple months a year, if that. .. in a game that nobody would unsub from, ever, in Legacy.

It's a case study into how to turn a successful MMORPG into an online come-and-go action adventure game, with questions about success - other than the cashshop makes Blizzard money. Subs? So low they stopped reporting. Blizzard is using the cashshop as a crutch. How proud retail fans must be.

Yeah they never lost a single sub in the entire time Vanilla was out!

[Deleted]

These posts make me laugh...it really amazes me nostalgia can completely cloud peoples views of things.

I mean it's like people saying their old rusting hunk of junk car is as good as the new models being put out...sure maybe your old car has a stronger body because it was made from different materials back then...but it's still old and falling apart.

Think your old car is superior because you don't like how cars are evolving...well just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's broken. Just means you're afraid or dislike change or flat out blinded by nostalgia.

But there is no point in really arguing...you're just going to stick your fingers in your ears, yell "LALALALAL", and pretend vanilla was this awesome game when it is nothing more than a aged piece of junk that was put together badly that has evolved over the years.

A video game isn't a car. A video game is more like a book or a movie (or a painting) than an airplane.

There are no clear definitions of what is a good or bad game. You can define what is a good car or a good airplane, but you cannot define what is a good game (marketing tries very hard to do it but fails almost everytime, and that's why the current wow is terrible: it is designed by the marketing teams). You can define what is a good car, but you cannot specify what is a good painting.

As such, good game design is intemporal. People still read centuries old books. People still go look at centuries old pieces of art. PEople still watch old movies, people still play decades old (video) games. Let me remind you that D&D (on which wow is based) was first published in 1974. One of the most popular (today) paperback RPG was first published in 1980.

The current wow might be fine if you re a solo player. However, if you were in wow for group play, the pre 3.0 wow was far better.

And why did they go so low? I guess you think it's because it isn't vanilla so subs dropped? I'm sure it has nothing to do with WoD being the laziest expansion they have ever done?

If vanilla is so good then why have subs gone up and up and up till we hit this skid mark of a lazy expansion? Hmm?

But no...go on believing WoW is hurting right now just because it has evolved from that piece of junk called Vanilla.

Wow evolved from vanilla to WOTLK, but then blizzard activated lazy mode. Nobody here is arguing that wow didn't evolve, it's just that people want to play older iterations of wow.

[Relapses]

The current wow might be fine if you re a solo player. However, if you were in wow for group play, the pre 3.0 wow was far better.

...that's a largely subjective perspective, too. For example, I personally only play WoW to raid and I personally find the raiding in retail WoW to be leaps and bounds better than its Vanilla counterpart. I'll concede that Vanilla WoW was more reliant on cooperation in five mans/world quests but I don't find the removal of this reliance as the game has evolved a particularly disastrous decision. I realize pro-Legacy players largely disagree with this, but since we're talking subjective opinions it's kind of unfair to make the presumption that group play pre-LFG was universally superior.

[Deleted]

...that's a largely subjective perspective, too. For example, I personally only play WoW to raid and I personally find the raiding in retail WoW to be leaps and bounds better than its Vanilla counterpart. I'll concede that Vanilla WoW was more reliant on cooperation in five mans/world quests but I don't find the removal of this reliance as the game has evolved a particularly disastrous decision. I realize pro-Legacy players largely disagree with this, but since we're talking subjective opinions it's kind of unfair to make the presumption that group play pre-LFG was universally superior.

The issue here isn't the LFG, the issue is the 3.0 patch where they moved from a group based battle system to a solo based battle system. Before the 3.0 patch it used to be tedious to play solo, that was because in order to harness the maximum potential of each class you needed to be with other players.

It totally ruined group PVE. From a game based on decision making we shifted to an APM based game overnight with little to no decision making on the player part. So if you're mostly a solo player (even in raid, ultimately now in a raid you have X individuals each doing their pre determined DPS/healing/tanking cycle with little synergies between the players) yeah it is indeed a superior design, but not if you liked better the pre 3.0 game.

Also, nobody is saying that the pre 3.0 system is universally superior, it is for the players who mostly played MMORPG for a compelling multiplayer experience.

[kary]

So basically you like old wow because it punished you for being solo? LOL

Christ, are there any more straws to grasp?

[rda]

An honest opinion:

I don't know whether or not Blizzard will do legacy servers, but I am absolutely, completely sure these servers can not and will not "save" WoW. The main thing that is going to determine the success of WoW is going to be live - Legion and patches / expansions following it. Legacy servers are merely a side thing, something that might be nice to have, that's it.

An immediate consequence: it is unwise to be spending time on legacy servers when it is unclear how well is the live version of the game standing on its feet.

[Deleted]

So basically you like old wow because it punished you for being solo? LOL

Christ, are there any more straws to grasp?

No I liked old wow because group play was awesome. If I want to play solo I play solo RPG (like dark souls or skyrim).

Also, there were other ways to improve the solo experience for some classes (for which solo play was tedious) than ruining the game design of the whole game (subs have been decreasing from WOTLK, the expansion which came after the shift in game design I talked about, for a reason).