[LEGION]: FROST Death Knight

[RuneDK]

Without enough Mastery, Fscythe (which is Frost damage) doesn't hit hard enough to justify using it even with KM up single target over Oblit KM. It hits for just 120% weapondamage as Frost - hardly worth spending a rune on with low mastery and no KM. With high crit (high chance FScythe will crit even without KM, AND higher chance of KM being up in the first place) and Mastery(higher frost damage as opposed to Oblit's physical) Fscythe is better, from what I've read.

Keep in mind KM now comes from autoattack critical strikes, and not just a flat chance on autoattack, meaning haste is lower in value compared to live.

Haste isn't low on value because of auto-attacks/km. It's low on value because it's capped quickly for rune regeneration seeing as we primarily use single rune abilities on live. Haste will be a lot better in Legion and potentially pre-patch due to it doing numerous things. More AA which gives us more attacks that can potentially crit, it reduces our GCD, and rune regen. Considering in Legion at least(the 4pc makes me think we will basically spam FSc the entire time aside from the rare spots we don't have KM up) We won't be sticking to single rune rotation, so naturally haste will be a lot more attractive. However I think there will be breakpoints instead of just a simple crit>haste>mastery.

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Anybody else finding the frost artifact ridiculously over tuned?

Did it with a 739 ilvl and died a couple of times to single mobs. Seem to be struggling to do more than 50k dps aswell on mobs with over 1m hp

I did it on a template character and breezed through it, then did it on my own copied character and struggled until the final part.

[Baddok21]

Haste isn't low on value because of auto-attacks/km. It's low on value because it's capped quickly for rune regeneration seeing as we primarily use single rune abilities on live. Haste will be a lot better in Legion and potentially pre-patch due to it doing numerous things. More AA which gives us more attacks that can potentially crit, it reduces our GCD, and rune regen. Considering in Legion at least(the 4pc makes me think we will basically spam FSc the entire time aside from the rare spots we don't have KM up) We won't be sticking to single rune rotation, so naturally haste will be a lot more attractive. However I think there will be breakpoints instead of just a simple crit>haste>mastery.

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I did it on a template character and breezed through it, then did it on my own copied character and struggled until the final part.

Haste effective value is extremely limited due to Murderous Effeciency making crit act as a super haste stat. at 32-36% crit you effectively will recieve a Km proc every 5.2 seconds with a 2.6 speed 1hnder (with no haste).

Murderous Effeciency becomes your effective toggle for "Do i need more runes or not" and with the newly redone Horn of Winter (love it) you really dont need to fish for rune resources anywhere else (lets not even factor in that legendary that gives ERW 1 charge and 20% reduced CD).

At entry lvl gear you will simply talent into resource regeneration (which gives you more than you really need) and as your gear improves and your mastery/Crit start to climb you gravitate to the talents that reap the highest reward for the GCD spent (Frostscythes, BoS, Glacial Advance, Shattering Strikes etc etc).

If they allowed Hypothermia to also allow haste to effect your DoT tick rates (which would yield more spread dmg, RP procs,Hypothermia procs) haste would have remained a solid stat but effectively you talent into resource regeneration and then you slowly talent out of that path once your geared enough.

the most effective way to increase regen is through Murderous Effeciency and Horn of Winter (at the cost of avoiding all haste gear like the plague)

[Piz813]

I quickly glances over the last few pages and stopped after the "1 button" bickering..

I tried Frost Scythe tonight. One said the truth, there is a LOT of down time (current 13% Haste) even with Horn/ Murderous Eff., Hungering Rune or a mix of the 3...

I went back to Runic Attuniation and Icy talons and I have tons of RP and Runes to burn.. Feels way more fluid and fun.

Are these two balanced out? Am I seeing this wrong? Meaning KM Frost Scythe hits 1 or more target with slow auto attacks or fast attacks and normal OB/HB on rime procs rotation. Still forgetting GA and RW too much.. Im more of a fan of the latter play sytle but should I be learning to deal with FSc at level 105?

I hit the dummy until KM proc'd. One Frost Scythe is like 10-19k more damage ST then 1 OB (MH and OH added). One is 1 rune but gives less RP back... Is this down to personal prefernce now?

[Necropotence]

I quickly glances over the last few pages and stopped after the "1 button" bickering..

I tried Frost Scythe tonight. One said the truth, there is a LOT of down time (current 13% Haste) even with Horn/ Murderous Eff., Hungering Rune or a mix of the 3...

I went back to Runic Attuniation and Icy talons and I have tons of RP and Runes to burn.. Feels way more fluid and fun.

Are these two balanced out? Am I seeing this wrong? Meaning KM Frost Scythe hits 1 or more target with slow auto attacks or fast attacks and normal OB/HB on rime procs rotation. Still forgetting GA and RW too much.. Im more of a fan of the latter play sytle but should I be learning to deal with FSc at level 105?

I hit the dummy until KM proc'd. One Frost Scythe is like 10-19k more damage ST then 1 OB (MH and OH added). One is 1 rune but gives less RP back... Is this down to personal prefernce now?

Thanks for this - just tried it out and gameplay/fluidity wise it was a lot more fun. No idea if it could be considered optimized, but I did note that taking Icy Talons works against BoS, which appears to be a far better CD than Obliteration or Glacial Advance.

[Baddok21]

I quickly glances over the last few pages and stopped after the "1 button" bickering..

I tried Frost Scythe tonight. One said the truth, there is a LOT of down time (current 13% Haste) even with Horn/ Murderous Eff., Hungering Rune or a mix of the 3...

I went back to Runic Attuniation and Icy talons and I have tons of RP and Runes to burn.. Feels way more fluid and fun.

Are these two balanced out? Am I seeing this wrong? Meaning KM Frost Scythe hits 1 or more target with slow auto attacks or fast attacks and normal OB/HB on rime procs rotation. Still forgetting GA and RW too much.. Im more of a fan of the latter play sytle but should I be learning to deal with FSc at level 105?

I hit the dummy until KM proc'd. One Frost Scythe is like 10-19k more damage ST then 1 OB (MH and OH added). One is 1 rune but gives less RP back... Is this down to personal prefernce now?

you need 39.7% mastery for Frostscythe to hit harder single target with a KM then Obliterate (keep this in mind)

The low geared lvling build for maximum resources would be

Icy Talons
Horn of Winter
Hungering Rune weapon
Runic Attenuation
Glacial Advance

thats ideally what your going to use on a non optimally geared FDK or lvling DK. you wont switch over to talents like Shattering Strikes. Avalance,Ice Cap, Frostscythe, BoS Until you have the gear to facilitate the gameplay those talents entail.

Especially while lvling as you will never really need "Cooldowns" for most of the questing your doing.

[RuneDK]

Haste effective value is extremely limited due to Murderous Effeciency making crit act as a super haste stat. at 32-36% crit you effectively will recieve a Km proc every 5.2 seconds with a 2.6 speed 1hnder (with no haste).

Murderous Effeciency becomes your effective toggle for "Do i need more runes or not" and with the newly redone Horn of Winter (love it) you really dont need to fish for rune resources anywhere else (lets not even factor in that legendary that gives ERW 1 charge and 20% reduced CD).

At entry lvl gear you will simply talent into resource regeneration (which gives you more than you really need) and as your gear improves and your mastery/Crit start to climb you gravitate to the talents that reap the highest reward for the GCD spent (Frostscythes, BoS, Glacial Advance, Shattering Strikes etc etc).

If they allowed Hypothermia to also allow haste to effect your DoT tick rates (which would yield more spread dmg, RP procs,Hypothermia procs) haste would have remained a solid stat but effectively you talent into resource regeneration and then you slowly talent out of that path once your geared enough.

the most effective way to increase regen is through Murderous Effeciency and Horn of Winter (at the cost of avoiding all haste gear like the plague)

I haven't looked at the gear, but there will be a point where we are geared enough naturally to ignore ME/Horn. And haste will be a valuable stat. It won't be our top stat for sure or above crit/mastery I feel however I do think it will have breakpoints so we can spec differently.

[kaintk]

i saw the str>crit>haste, i'm okay with that but what mastery do we need ? is str>crit>haste=mastery should not be the real thing ?

[Piz813]

you need 39.7% mastery for Frostscythe to hit harder single target with a KM then Obliterate (keep this in mind)

The low geared lvling build for maximum resources would be

Icy Talons
Horn of Winter
Hungering Rune weapon
Runic Attenuation
Glacial Advance

thats ideally what your going to use on a non optimally geared FDK or lvling DK. you wont switch over to talents like Shattering Strikes. Avalance,Ice Cap, Frostscythe, BoS Until you have the gear to facilitate the gameplay those talents entail.

Especially while lvling as you will never really need "Cooldowns" for most of the questing your doing.

Im still in my gear thats in my sig minus a ring I found thats 743. Perhaps because I am using the Cursed Plume trinket that FSc hits harder?

Yes, Icy Talons does work against BoS... The few times I ran BoS on a rare or elite its worked fine but didnt get much use out of it. It can be done, jut not ideal. With 4 piece Tier 18 KM procs a ton still so more OBs to fuel BoS

I personally enjoy-
Icy Talons
Freezing Fog (you get more HB damage from your weapon later, so stop bitching)
Runic Attune
Glacial Advance

chain pull a few mobs and loop around to group up. Hit remorseless winter and GA when they are close to STACKS (GA is a bitch like this) then FS for speed and OB/HB as normal. They melt. Same for rares with adds. The armor trait sounds pretty fucking stupid but now I see whay at level 105 and the Death Strike heal is incredible again. screen could be flashing red at you be at 10% healther just 3 death strikes and you are at full.

Obliteration in my eyes is a 110 talent or after breaking tier 18 so never used yet. I played with Shattering Strikes, Ice Cap, Muderous, Horn, etc etc. Close to live play style and Im a fucking blender hacking shit up with shards of Frostmourne!

Then again none of this might mean anything as I am not 110 or done a single dungeon yet. Questing is that good and enjoyable and I suck at leveling fast.

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i saw the str>crit>haste, i'm okay with that but what mastery do we need ? is str>crit>haste=mastery should not be the real thing ?

I can see haste being a thing for sure. at 100 GA was 7.xx% cool down. at 105 in same gear its 14 seconds..

[Sinzaram]

at 100 GA was 7.xx% cool down. at 105 in same gear its 14 seconds..

This is how leveling up works.

Everything requires more rating for the same %.

This has been the case since they introduced stat ratings in TBC to counter all the +2% crit chance items that were available in Vanilla which would have kept being used unless they did this.

More reading:
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Combat_rating_system

[Piz813]

This is how leveling up works.

Everything requires more rating for the same %.

This has been the case since they introduced stat ratings in TBC to counter all the +2% crit chance items that were available in Vanilla which would have kept being used unless they did this.

More reading:
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Combat_rating_system

Yes... we know this.. Been playing since vanilla..

I started at 39% crit at 100. At 105 in same gear it's 27. Think my haste is 11 or 13% now.

For pre patch tomorrow GA can be good but at 110 BoS or obliteration by far although GA Crist for almost 200k at 105

[Hctaz]

For pre patch tomorrow GA can be good but at 110 BoS or obliteration by far although GA Crist for almost 200k at 105

Shiiiit that reminds me: Is there a link to a dedicated source of info for pre-patch talent and gearing as well as leveling talents? I already have found the theorycrafting page with the max level ideal set ups and artifact pathways and what not. Just need to know where I can get the level 100-110 (non BiS) info if there are any.

[Nemesquish]

Shiiiit that reminds me: Is there a link to a dedicated source of info for pre-patch talent and gearing as well as leveling talents? I already have found the theorycrafting page with the max level ideal set ups and artifact pathways and what not. Just need to know where I can get the level 100-110 (non BiS) info if there are any.

Gearing just pick up all the Crit/Mastery gear you can get from HFC.

http://beta.wowdb.com/talent-calcula...DAAAAAAAAAG59a

You can use which ever 75 talent you want, but either are pretty ineffective.

These are the talents I was running over the last few speed runs I've done. (Total time complete 1 sitting was 7:10, But we got Highmountain down to 1:28 last night, which was 20 mins faster than the total time run)

The Glyph of Wraith Walker is actually pretty important, This should be able to be found pre expansion.

[Piz813]

Shiiiit that reminds me: Is there a link to a dedicated source of info for pre-patch talent and gearing as well as leveling talents? I already have found the theorycrafting page with the max level ideal set ups and artifact pathways and what not. Just need to know where I can get the level 100-110 (non BiS) info if there are any.

As I keep preaching it's all personal preference. Play the way you like for pre patch and leveling. On beta it's hard to find two DKs speced the same way. Everyone chose different talents

This will change when legion launches and Sims and shit are out

[BotR]

Hey guys. I don't have the beta because I want to keep everything a surprise but I have a question.

Are the pvp talents available right now for people to experiment with? If so has anyone tried making a single target DPS build using the PVP killing machine talent and the regular talent obliteration?

If obliteration does give you the upgraded killing machine proc those 8 seconds could be pretty brutal burst.

Also I was told that frost scythe was now no longer out damaging obliterate if you were to add in a ton of mastery into the build I was mentioning before couldn't you be getting a X6 crit with frost scythe. That also sounds pretty fucking brutal, but like I said I am only theory crafting with no actual data.

If this question has already been posted I am sorry, I never really post and I don't want to scan the entire thread.

[Piz813]

Shiiiit that reminds me: Is there a link to a dedicated source of info for pre-patch talent and gearing as well as leveling talents? I already have found the theorycrafting page with the max level ideal set ups and artifact pathways and what not. Just need to know where I can get the level 100-110 (non BiS) info if there are any.

http://beta.wowdb.com/talent-calculator#Ea2a

found this on Mooniara's youtube. says he will be rolling this spec tomorrow

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Hey guys. I don't have the beta because I want to keep everything a surprise but I have a question.

Are the pvp talents available right now for people to experiment with? If so has anyone tried making a single target DPS build using the PVP killing machine talent and the regular talent obliteration?

If obliteration does give you the upgraded killing machine proc those 8 seconds could be pretty brutal burst.

Also I was told that frost scythe was now no longer out damaging obliterate if you were to add in a ton of mastery into the build I was mentioning before couldn't you be getting a X6 crit with frost scythe. That also sounds pretty fucking brutal, but like I said I am only theory crafting with no actual data.

If this question has already been posted I am sorry, I never really post and I don't want to scan the entire thread.

dont know shit about PvP...

my real life expirience on Frost Scythe is skewed as I am using Azus Cursed Plume and that babi procs ever 20 seconds for 18xx Mastery. will be good for UH dps too till end of leveling

[RuneDK]

Yes... we know this.. Been playing since vanilla..

I started at 39% crit at 100. At 105 in same gear it's 27. Think my haste is 11 or 13% now.

For pre patch tomorrow GA can be good but at 110 BoS or obliteration by far although GA Crist for almost 200k at 105

It will depend on build that will make GA good....Obliteration will be the go to single target/potentially cleave if you pick FSc. GA can hit hard as is so I really think it's based on talent build over anything.

[Freedom]

Also for prepatch keep in mind all HFC gear has been nerfed by 10 iLvls, BUT.... if WowHead is right... Conquest PVP gear has been left alone. So that 710 PVP piece with Crit/Mastery might be equal to your upgraded H tier legs. I had extra Conq, so I bought some gear that better fits Frost's new priority - look into what the PVP gear is becoming at least, and spend Conq before Tuesday!

Also, if you don't have the Al'Akir lookalike sword from boxes yet, equip a 2H as Frost, and the game should say, "Oh, a 2H Frost DK. Let's give him/her 2 free 1H Swords to get them ready for Legion." And they're the Al'Akir model, if PTR is right. As I do not know if the game would scan your bags, I cannot confirm this will work, but it's worth a try.

[RuneDK]

where is it said HFC items are reduces 10 ilvls? All my gear on beta with a fresh copied character is all the same ilvl as live...

EDIT: Wowhead isn't right because as I said...my items are all normal ilvl with a freshly created toon on beta.

[TheEaterofSouls]

Anyone know if we'll be getting free 1 handers in the prepatch? I remember hearing that you need 1 handers equipped now to play it. I dont have any tho, ive been playing 2handed frost.

[Maxweii]

where is it said HFC items are reduces 10 ilvls? All my gear on beta with a fresh copied character is all the same ilvl as live...

EDIT: Wowhead isn't right because as I said...my items are all normal ilvl with a freshly created toon on beta.

They don't retroactively nerf your gear, it only applies to newly dropped gear

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Anyone know if we'll be getting free 1 handers in the prepatch? I remember hearing that you need 1 handers equipped now to play it. I dont have any tho, ive been playing 2handed frost.

Likely not seeing as you could duel wield before but chose not to, but who knows, might get em