How do we explain earth's history.

[Deleted]

There is a very simple explanation for all of this: earlier civilizations weren't the incompetent boobs running around clubbing each other and themselves some of us like to believe they were.

Basically, this. I mean we're still using math systems invented by the ancient Greeks and Indians, which were spread/refined by Arabs in the Middle Ages.

And also there's the whole slavery/serving class thing. Turns out when you can just hurl bodies you don't give a fuck about at a project, you can create some pretty cool shit.

[Raetary]

btw,

[Loupy]

That, and you can get fairly amazing things done with a large body of unpaid conscript labor.

Exactly how difficult is it to pile some stones into a pyramid if you have the GDP of an entire country behind the project?

There is little to no architectural evidence that ANY ancient civilization relied heavily on conscript labor. Yes, it says so in the bible- but given that the same book claims that two of every species on earth fit on a big boat at the same time, it should be pretty obvious that the factual reality of accounts therein should be taken with about a Lot's-wife-worth of salt. It's far more likely that the uneducated masses VOLUNTEERED to sacrifice money, supplies, and effort into building such structures for religious reasons. We DO have reliable evidence that medieval cathedrals were built in that way, after all, so it's quite reasonable to suspect that other, more ancient structures were built similarly.

[Tijuana]

That something defies your ability to explain it does not mean it isn't the case. There is nothing that necessarily rules it out, other than your own disbelief, which is utterly irrelevant, and there is a severe lack of evidence of any other force being at work here. The notion that because modern society cannot do something no other society less technologically advanced overall could have is based on nothing except arrogance, and is thus a notion to be discarded. The simplest explanation, which neither defies the available evidence nor makes unnecessary assumptions, is that humans built these monuments and either through luck or care or possession of unique knowledge or devices were able to do so in a way that surpasses our own ability to do the same with only what we knew they had to work with.

It's not arrogance to assume we have collective knowledge that they did not. If they had written down how they did it, we would know. I doubt its magic or aliens, but it is interesting we can't say for certain how some of this was made.

[Fascinate]

Basically, this. I mean we're still using math systems invented by the ancient Greeks and Indians, which were spread/refined by Arabs in the Middle Ages

And also there's the whole slavery/serving class thing. Turns out when you can just hurl bodies you don't give a fuck about at a project, you can create some pretty cool shit.

That is the essence of this thread, we have no idea our history on this planet...that is clear if you just look around us.

[Tijuana]

Basically, this. I mean we're still using math systems invented by the ancient Greeks and Indians, which were spread/refined by Arabs in the Middle Ages

And also there's the whole slavery/serving class thing. Turns out when you can just hurl bodies you don't give a fuck about at a project, you can create some pretty cool shit.

The Arabs were the math source, not the Greeks. You have that backwards.

[DarkTZeratul]

That is the essence of this thread, we have no idea our history on this planet...that is clear if you just look around us.

I'm pretty sure that's the opposite of what Valarius said.

[Deleted]

There is little to no architectural evidence that ANY ancient civilization relied heavily on conscript labor. Yes, it says so in the bible- but given that the same book claims that two of every species on earth fit on a big boat at the same time, it should be pretty obvious that the factual reality of accounts therein should be taken with about a Lot's-wife-worth of salt. It's far more likely that the uneducated masses VOLUNTEERED to sacrifice money, supplies, and effort into building such structures for religious reasons. We DO have reliable evidence that medieval cathedrals were built in that way, after all, so it's quite reasonable to suspect that other, more ancient structures were built similarly.

This. There are several pyparus that tell us that pyramids were actually built by the egyptians themselves, not by slaves.

[Azadina]

Basically, this. I mean we're still using math systems invented by the ancient Greeks and Indians, which were spread/refined by Arabs in the Middle Ages.

And also there's the whole slavery/serving class thing. Turns out when you can just hurl bodies you don't give a fuck about at a project, you can create some pretty cool shit.

Yup. There is a reason why Nazi Germany was ahead in technology.

[nextormento]

Id love to see you go into detail on this even a little bit. There are free standing blocks of stone that weigh upwards of 1000 tons that have been moved a good distance, how was that possible knowing what we know of our ancestors in that time period?

On which place.
You've been show a video on Stonehenge-type piling of stones. Levers are one hell of a tool.
Theories on Egypt Pyramids are varied. From floating rocks down the river, to mounting them on a sled and wetting sand in front of it.

You've complained before that we don't have cranes to lift some mass. It's because we don't need them. but we have techniques to move entire houses around in one piece. Our availability of tools is tailored to our current needs. We don't develop pyramid-capable tools because we don't want to have a pyramid in our backyard. But we could.

[Fascinate]

There is little to no architectural evidence that ANY ancient civilization relied heavily on conscript labor. Yes, it says so in the bible- but given that the same book claims that two of every species on earth fit on a big boat at the same time, it should be pretty obvious that the factual reality of accounts therein should be taken with about a Lot's-wife-worth of salt. It's far more likely that the uneducated masses VOLUNTEERED to sacrifice money, supplies, and effort into building such structures for religious reasons. We DO have reliable evidence that medieval cathedrals were built in that way, after all, so it's quite reasonable to suspect that other, more ancient structures were built similarly.

That makes sense...to a point. You still have to consider the 1k+ tonne stones, no one has a proper grasp on how they were moved (no matter what the textbooks say).

[Deleted]

The Arabs were the math source, not the Greeks. You have that backwards.

Sumerians were the math source.

[DarkTZeratul]

that makes sense...to a point. You still have to consider the 1k+ tonne stones, no one has a proper grasp on how they were moved (no matter what the textbooks say).

For the last fucking time, the video I linked shows blocks of that weight and heavier being moved without any modern technology.

[Gib Lover]

What happened from 4k-15k years ago that we had a better grasp of reality than we do now? (at least in regards to building techniques!)

The building I'm sitting in right now is more technically impressive than anything built in ancient times. You are saying strange things, my man.

[Deleted]

That makes sense...to a point. You still have to consider the 1k+ tonne stones, no one has a proper grasp on how they were moved (no matter what the textbooks say).

For Rao's sake. YOU don't have a proper grasp.

I'll ask again, do you know how to build a nuclear bomb?

[Deleted]

The Arabs were the math source, not the Greeks. You have that backwards.

Well, whatever. I'm fuzzy on the exact details, long time ago learning this stuff. Anyway, the point is that there were plenty of clever people around in what we would consider primitive civilizations, whose works we still rely on today.

[Fascinate]

On which place.
You've been show a video on Stonehenge-type piling of stones. Levers are one hell of a tool.
Theories on Egypt Pyramids are varied. From floating rocks down the river, to mounting them on a sled and wetting sand in front of it.

You've complained before that we don't have cranes to lift some mass. It's because we don't need them. but we have techniques to move entire houses around in one piece. Our availability of tools is tailored to our current needs. We don't develop pyramid-capable tools because we don't want to have a pyramid in our backyard. But we could.

Do you understand how large of stones exist across the earth? Leverage isnt a thing without the tools that could support such an endeavor, which none have been found. Here is a list that is probably outdated, but gives you an idea:

http://www.ancient-wisdom.com/top50stones.htm

[Aggrophobic]

Do you think the great skyscrapers in say, NYC are built by aliens as well?

[Fascinate]

For the last fucking time, the video I linked shows blocks of that weight and heavier being moved without any modern technology.

I dont think you understand what 1000 tonne means. And this isnt about moving it off the ground an inch, or moved 2 feet across the ground. Some of these stones were moved MILES.

[DarkTZeratul]

Leverage isnt a thing without the tools that could support such an endeavor, which none have been found.

And if they were made of wood (which is likely), then it's unlikely they would have survived for thousands of years.

- - - Updated - - -

I dont think you understand what 1000 tonne means. And this isnt about moving it off the ground an inch, or moved 2 feet across the ground. Some of these stones were moved MILES.

Once you move it off the ground an inch, you can get something under it. At that point, it's considerably easier to move it long distances.