Fury Legion Discussion

[Seramore]

watup boys

quit like a year ago but I see that fury isnt looking too great for legion? Like on par with most dps but for some reason we take a shitload more damage? Can't wait to be the guy who dies the most on the average pull and people pointing!

Dying to massive stacking AoE while everyones survives at 10% sounds great too!

might go DH dps instead but at least the fury gameplay doesnt sound as awful as it was in wod?

from what I've gathered some of the other melee classes are better than fury but it's not like it's in a shitty spot, it seems to be in a pretty good spot from what I've read. I don't have the beta though so I'm just going by what has been said in this thread.

as for playstyle, it's way better than WoD.

- - - Updated - - -

Read the thread the extra health more than makes up for it.

and to add on to that, we have more self-healing

[Kirbynator]

Read the thread, the extra health more than makes up for it.

all 200 pages or?

[Hoodzilla]

all 200 pages or?

Sorry yeah just a couple pages back someone explained the numbers of it.

[Kirbynator]

ah awesome thanks

[Hoodzilla]

Just to clarify to anyone who is a bit skeptical on the whole damage taken thing, I will use the power of math to put your worries to rest.

Lets say I have 500k health as an arms warrior and I take 100k damage, that puts me down to 400k health

Now lets say I was in fury. As fury you gain 15% more health thanks to Titans Grip. So 500k increases to 575k.

When you enrage, you take 30% more damage; however early on you unlock traits which increases your max health by 6% at 3/3 while you are enraged. This will put my health to 609.5k health whilst enraged.

Now we take damage whilst enraged, 100k x 1.3 (30%) which is 130k health. 609.5k - 130k = 479.5k

So as arms our health is reduced to 400k whilst in fury we are at 479.5k, overall you still have a significant amount of health left over.

If we kept taking 100k damage, which bearing in mind is 20% of arms' total health, you would only drop lower in health as fury once you are below 20% health. To put it simply, if arms drops to 100k health, fury would be at 89.5k health.

What you need to understand though is that there are very little mechanics which you cannot avoid which deal this amount of health % in a short amount of time; however there are plenty of mechanics where the raid will take a singular burst amount of damage, to which fury would overall win in terms of health provided its not up to 80% of your maximum health in one hit, but how rare is that?

Also keep in mind that you are not going to be enraged 100% of the time, far from it. I think I saw that being about 50% is considered reasonable but please correct me on that and correct me if anything I said above is miscalculated or purely incorrect.

Hopefully you understand it a bit more clearly now, unless I confused you even more hehe

here ya go.

[Hoodzilla]

Personally i plan on running the 20 percent less instead of 30 percent talent for raids. Not to worried about it really, bloodthirst helps while leveling.

[MisterBigglez]

This is maybe half the truth. The other half is that, just like Fury, other specs have some generic Artifact traits that reduce damage. In this case, Arms has increased physical resist after heroic leap and their defensive ability is 5% more potent.

Personally I would not mind it too much. Surely the devs will notice if Fury Warriors keep dying left and right, then adjust.

Well we can take Warpaint into account in which we would take 20% increased damage rather than 30% unless we need the extra cdr on Heroic Leap. Plus fury has good self healing which increases even more when you drop below 20% (provided you have the traits but I believe those are the last ones to pick)

[Valy]

Ignore Arch, good at what he does but has absolutely deplorable social skills and tends to fire off at anyone who disagrees with him.

he's maybe "abrupt" sometimes on his reply but he have more experience on TC, and him, Sarri, Collision hard work for Warrior Community, we can calmly discuss, stop screech all time please :<

[Seramore]

Ignore Arch, good at what he does but has absolutely deplorable social skills and tends to fire off at anyone who disagrees with him.

it's not like Arch is wrong. HordeFanboy is making retarded suggestions whilst simultaneously saying that the spec is useless despite numerous points saying that the spec is in fact, not useless. Everybody has a right to their own opinion. With that being said, HordeFanboy is ignoring all things said and trying to convince himself that his opinion is a fact. Why shouldn't somebody call him an idiot?

[Archimtiros]

lol im not a troll. its my own OPINION and you have to respect it. and yes arch is a flamer.

And yet your "opinion" is wrong, and so I repeat myself:

You're an idiot.

Just because you call something an "opinion" doesn't mean it's right, that it's basis cannot be wrong, and if it is simply your "opinion" you should label it as such, rather than trying to pass it off as fact. For example, you could have said "In spite of its extra health, I don't like the fact that Fury takes extra damage, and it makes me not want to play it". That is an expression of an opinion. Saying something is bad because you don't like something about it, or that it needs buffs despite being on the high side of both survivability and damage is not an opinion. It's a mistaken statement of fact, which is in fact, wrong, and I nor anyone else is required to respect your poor reasoning skills.

And yet I'm the one with deplorable social skills. I'd rather have deplorable social skills than deplorable communication or critical thinking ones. Git gud.

[Ezymode]

I understand the increased damage done is offset by a larger health pool. Though when people check logs during progression to see who has taken the most damage from certain mechanics, standing in fire, dots etc, the fury warrior, even if playing 100% optimally and following mechanics will always be at the top of the damage taken list (for dps classes). During progression when people are benched for such things this will be an issue. Unless of course you can convince your raid leader to whip out a calculator and do a few quick -30% sums after each pull, for each individual damage source, for every boss, to reveal the real results. This is just unnecessary complication for what purpose? As others have said this will just cause the ill informed to spread false information among the community and fury will be branded "bad for raiding".

[Seramore]

I understand the increased damage done is offset by a larger health pool. Though when people check logs during progression to see who has taken the most damage from certain mechanics, standing in fire, dots etc, the fury warrior, even if playing 100% optimally and following mechanics will always be at the top of the damage taken list (for dps classes). During progression when people are benched for such things this will be an issue. Unless of course you can convince your raid leader to whip out a calculator and do a few quick -30% sums after each pull, for each individual damage source, for every boss, to reveal the real results. This is just unnecessary complication for what purpose? As others have said this will just cause the ill informed to spread false information among the community and fury will be branded "bad for raiding".

It's not like people who look at logs just look at damage taken, they also look at how many ticks people take from whatever ability the damage is coming from. So yes, while Fury Warriors could be higher on the overall damage taken list, they could also be lower on the amount of times they took damage from said ability.

[Archimtiros]

I once meet Collision in game, he is really nice guy, we talk a bit and it was good experience. Archi in other hand IS a falmer sometimes, it doesn't mean he doesn't give a good advice. And do you really belive only 3 warriors work on theoreycrafting? Don't protect them like a holy grall because you are taking info from them, even best are sometimes wrong.

Actually there are only three of us now, though occasionally other people provide input, we do the majority of the work. That said, feel free to try to point out a time in which I've "flamed" anyone. Call me rude, call me crude, call me an asshole if you want, but I only call out people who deserve it, which is not "flaming".

As for the flawed premise behind your statement ("I've met this guy and he's nice. I've never met this guy, so he's mean", lul), I'm not going to try to defend myself, I don't need to. Here's the dirty little secret: I don't care what you think of me, I don't care what he thinks of me, I don't care what anyone thinks of me. I've gone out of my way to help hundreds of players in direct one-on-one communication; and I'll keep doing it, because I do this work for myself, not for accolades, sycophants, or "e-fame".

[Deleted]

I understand the increased damage done is offset by a larger health pool. Though when people check logs during progression to see who has taken the most damage from certain mechanics, standing in fire, dots etc, the fury warrior, even if playing 100% optimally and following mechanics will always be at the top of the damage taken list (for dps classes). During progression when people are benched for such things this will be an issue. Unless of course you can convince your raid leader to whip out a calculator and do a few quick -30% sums after each pull, for each individual damage source, for every boss, to reveal the real results. This is just unnecessary complication for what purpose? As others have said this will just cause the ill informed to spread false information among the community and fury will be branded "bad for raiding".

The primary point that you seem to raise, though, is not that the damage intake is an issue, but more how it's interpret by those determining whether you have a raidspot on any given raid day. If you fear that damage taken will be the determining factor of you having a raid spot or not, then you either A) have very little confident in what you bring to the raid besides a mere headcount or B) have successfully managed to enlist yourself under some raid management with very short sightedness and/or ignorance for days. Perhaps it's all of the above?

The damage intake is not a "complication", unless of course, you (and others) deem it your personal crusade to propaganda to everyone how bad it is, and thereby ironically pursuing to get the stamp: "bad for raiding", as you so describe it. And as for "ill informed spreading false information among the community" - isn't it even worse when the "well informed" joins that very same band wagon and beat the drums of "ohh my heavens, what's the purpose"?

Mythic raidtesting deemed warriors fine on all accounts of survivability - and as a mighty kicker: we bring the strongest (dare I say only) relevant raid CD, how's that for survivability?

TL: DR: if you get benched because you take too much damage... then consider dodging mechanics, and stop blaming the class!

[Deleted]

Archi just drop it dude.

[Artunias]

The primary point that you seem to raise, though, is not that the damage intake is an issue, but more how it's interpret by those determining whether you have a raidspot on any given raid day. If you fear that damage taken will be the determining factor of you having a raid spot or not, then you either A) have very little confident in what you bring to the raid besides a mere headcount or B) have successfully managed to enlist yourself under some raid management with very short sightedness and/or ignorance for days. Perhaps it's all of the above?

The damage intake is not a "complication", unless of course, you (and others) deem it your personal crusade to propaganda to everyone how bad it is, and thereby ironically pursuing to get the stamp: "bad for raiding", as you so describe it. And as for "ill informed spreading false information among the community" - isn't it even worse when the "well informed" joins that very same band wagon and beat the drums of "ohh my heavens, what's the purpose"?

Mythic raidtesting deemed warriors fine on all accounts of survivability - and as a mighty kicker: we bring the strongest (dare I say only) relevant raid CD, how's that for survivability?

TL: DR: if you get benched because you take too much damage... then consider dodging mechanics, and stop blaming the class!

While I agree it's more perception that anything else, it's still a disadvantage. Hard to quantify how much of a disadvantage though, and I do agree even though it's a disadvantage it's nowhere near as large as people are making it out to be. Also important to note is that almost all raid testing has you scaled up to essentially a maximum item level or farm mode item level. Not the item level you'll have when progressing on these bosses.

[Ezymode]

It's not like people who look at logs just look at damage taken, they also look at how many ticks people take from whatever ability the damage is coming from. So yes, while Fury Warriors could be higher on the overall damage taken list, they could also be lower on the amount of times they took damage from said ability.

Correct and i agree with you. Which just further emphasises my point. It adds unnecessary complication to have to dig through logs / recount / skada etc just for 1 specific class in your raid. The bigger point is that most will not even bother. Its extra time and effort that no other class requires.

[HordeFanboy]

And yet your "opinion" is wrong, and so I repeat myself:



Just because you call something an "opinion" doesn't mean it's right, that it's basis cannot be wrong, and if it is simply your "opinion" you should label it as such, rather than trying to pass it off as fact. For example, you could have said "In spite of its extra health, I don't like the fact that Fury takes extra damage, and it makes me not want to play it". That is an expression of an opinion. Saying something is bad because you don't like something about it, or that it needs buffs despite being on the high side of both survivability and damage is not an opinion. It's a mistaken statement of fact, which is in fact, wrong, and I nor anyone else is required to respect your poor reasoning skills.

And yet I'm the one with deplorable social skills. I'd rather have deplorable social skills than deplorable communication or critical thinking ones. Git gud.

fury doesnt have big dmg

[cFortyfive]

could be higher on the overall damage taken list, they could also be lower on the amount of times they took damage from said ability.

Don't think that playing "better" and still seeing a worse result is incredibly pleasant. That said it's hardly something new in this game.

[Seramore]

Correct and i agree with you. Which just further emphasises my point. It adds unnecessary complication to have to dig through logs / recount / skada etc just for 1 specific class in your raid. The bigger point is that most will not even bother. Its extra time and effort that no other class requires.

You're not doing anything extra than what you were doing before, though. I can't speak for Recount and Skada because I've never used those to analyze logs like that but a lot of people live log and the logs will show the amount of times they took damage from something in the same line (although different row) as the amount of damage you took. It has always been like that and if there's a raid leader benching people based off of data from an ingame meter then I'm not really sure what to say.