[7.0] New Paladin Abilities and Talents

[Reghame]

@Redblade if you think blizzard has the time, resources, or need to balance specs around the top .5% for DPS weekly or even bi-weekly, you are purely mad. Not only is this such a waste of time but is not even easy to achieve. theres no simple button that says NERF or BUFF when it comes to spec dps.

and premades are TERRIBLE sources to show DPS. even more so when it either sits you with mastery or versatility. (and last time i looked, both mastery AND versatility give tive or even three times less dps per point compared to both haste and crit.)

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Yes, i did say that.

Well if it is around 5-7k DPS(GBOM) that's a lot of damage missing out. I still say if GBOM is still a thing by 7.1, they're being stupid. I don't even understand why it's there. It's so easily ignorable(As in it might as well not exist.).

[garonne]

Well if it is around 5-7k DPS(GBOM) that's a lot of damage missing out. I still say if GBOM is still a thing by 7.1, they're being stupid. I don't even understand why it's there. It's so easily ignorable(As in it might as well not exist.).

not everything has to be exciting. some ppl will like it, some wont but i dont understand why its stupid?

[Temna]

not everything has to be exciting. some ppl will like it, some wont but i dont understand why its stupid?

I dont like it mainly because its unhealthy parasitic dps. I get more numbers on the meter because someone (likely a warrior during the execute phase) got a good chain of procs. Doesn't necessarily feel good for either party I feel.

[Kabsal]

I dont like it mainly because its unhealthy parasitic dps. I get more numbers on the meter because someone (likely a warrior during the execute phase) got a good chain of procs. Doesn't necessarily feel good for either party I feel.

That's a reasonable point of view to have. Although, consider the way Blessing of Might currently works. Suppose you have no one else in the raid who provides the Mastery buff - your BoM is the only source. Through a passive button press, you increase the numbers of other players, such as that warrior during their execute phase. You don't even get credited for that now.

I'm not saying that the removal of raid buffs is a bad thing. However, I'd say greater blessings do fit the Paladin class theme of empowering allies with the Light. In some ways it's even more meaningful when you're the only player that does it instead of half the raid giving off buff auras. Perhaps the idea of "class fantasy" doesn't appeal to you directly, and that's fine, but to me it's part of giving each class/spec the distinction that they've been sorely lacking due to homogenization from Wrath onward.

[garonne]

I dont like it mainly because its unhealthy parasitic dps. I get more numbers on the meter because someone (likely a warrior during the execute phase) got a good chain of procs. Doesn't necessarily feel good for either party I feel.

i can understand that, but someone else could like it for the same exact reason hence me saying "some will... some wont". but he said they're stupid if they keep it in and that i dont understand.

[Kabsal]

i can understand that, but someone else could like it for the same exact reason hence me saying "some will... some wont". but he said they're stupid if they keep it in and that i dont understand.

It's because everyone knows that Blizzard is incomprehensibly stupid and has a PERSONAL VENDETTA against the player's chosen class.

Really, it's just internet hyperbole again, saying "because I don't like this system its existence is stupid". Quite likely if all greater blessings were removed and replaced by "two hand weapon specialization makes you do 10% more damage than currently" many people would complain there too- possibly even some of the same people. I like greater blessings as a concept, though I do feel that we haven't arrived at exactly the right implementation yet.

[Deleted]

Well if it is around 5-7k DPS(GBOM) that's a lot of damage missing out. I still say if GBOM is still a thing by 7.1, they're being stupid. I don't even understand why it's there. It's so easily ignorable(As in it might as well not exist.).

We're both agreeing here. Yes, i added it to my damage becasue i forgot to put it up on the first tests and matches yours. More or less ofc. We are in the same ballpark.

[Redblade]

@Redblade if you think blizzard has the time, resources, or need to balance specs around the top .5% for DPS weekly or even bi-weekly, you are purely mad. Not only is this such a waste of time but is not even easy to achieve. theres no simple button that says NERF or BUFF when it comes to spec dps.

They got both the time and the resources...

Their bottleneck in development have been stated many times and it's art. And it's quite simple to balance, especially now with how streamlined abilities and passives are. The hard part is to create a baseline for each class but that's something they should be doing during during development anyway...judging by their failure to balance they might not though.

As far as I can remember they have even stated many times in the past that balancing would be easier with so many knobs to tweak with, yet it's always the same old where some classes takes month to balance if they even get balanced during the entire expansion.

and premades are TERRIBLE sources to show DPS. even more so when it either sits you with mastery or versatility. (and last time i looked, both mastery AND versatility give tive or even three times less dps per point compared to both haste and crit.)

And who's fault is it that we get terrible sources to test with and as such render any data and feedback useless for balance purposes?

[Chaosinciter]

And who's fault is it that we get terrible sources to test with and as such render any data and feedback useless for balance purposes?

There a leveling realm that is working, use it. That's what i did to gather my information and make a informed decision. Sure it takes a bit of time (roughly 8-10 hours at a leisurely pace) to get to 110 and then a bit more time to get the appropriate gear, but it's far better than using the pvp template 110 and then complaining based on that.

[Redblade]

There a leveling realm that is working, use it. That's what i did to gather my information and make a informed decision. Sure it takes a bit of time (roughly 8-10 hours at a leisurely pace) to get to 110 and then a bit more time to get the appropriate gear, but it's far better than using the pvp template 110 and then complaining based on that.

While some do this it really shouldn't be a requirement to test and compare specs at end game. Now if Blizzard could manage to balance the specs without the players testing and giving input more power to them but as they clearly can't they should provide the tools to do said testing properly, even if it's limited time characters to not detract from other testing.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

While some do this it really shouldn't be a requirement to test and compare specs at end game. Now if Blizzard could manage to balance the specs without the players testing and giving input more power to them but as they clearly can't they should provide the tools to do said testing properly, even if it's limited time characters to not detract from other testing.

I mean they can hotfix certain stuff... but mechanics are RARELY changed mid expansion. I think they should do so if needed but that's just my philosophy honestly.

[Redblade]

I mean they can hotfix certain stuff... but mechanics are RARELY changed mid expansion. I think they should do so if needed but that's just my philosophy honestly.

Well that's a part of the problem, if the players can't test how the mechanics play out at end game in desired gear how would anyone know how to provide feedback on it. Sadly I don't think it would help when it comes to mechanics though, Blizzard are stubborn to a fault when it comes to how they want to design something.

[Ashelorh]

Yep, I'm changing class to hunter. I might join your ranks in the future. Best of luck getting the spec fixed

[snackfeat]

Yep, I'm changing class to hunter. I might join your ranks in the future. Best of luck getting the spec fixed

Pretty ironic that you are changing to hunter of all classes, seeing as that's often refered to as the most boring and dumbed down class across all their specs.

[Reghame]

They got both the time and the resources...

Their bottleneck in development have been stated many times and it's art. And it's quite simple to balance, especially now with how streamlined abilities and passives are. The hard part is to create a baseline for each class but that's something they should be doing during during development anyway...judging by their failure to balance they might not though.

As far as I can remember they have even stated many times in the past that balancing would be easier with so many knobs to tweak with, yet it's always the same old where some classes takes month to balance if they even get balanced during the entire expansion.



And who's fault is it that we get terrible sources to test with and as such render any data and feedback useless for balance purposes?

then by all means, apply for lead design with your experience as a developer, even more so with a game that is as successful as WoW (which i expect you actually have 0 backround in like 99% of us) because apparently blizzard has absolutely no idea on how to manage a game that has been in the running for what 13+ years?

backseat developing at it's finest. i remember why i left this forum and i think ill keep it that way for good now.

[Redblade]

then by all means, apply for lead design with your experience as a developer, even more so with a game that is as successful as WoW (which i expect you actually have 0 backround in like 99% of us) because apparently blizzard has absolutely no idea on how to manage a game that has been in the running for what 13+ years?

Don't have to be a developer to establish the fact that they have failed to balance classes to the goals they claimed they wanted for the past 5+ years now...

So obviously they are doing something wrong, not allowing the beta testers to test with the gear they will eventually have is probably one issue. Another, imo, is how stubborn they are when most of the feedback say that a class doesn't play "right" and something needs to be changed for it to feel right. In rets case I'm going to say it's the judgment mechanic that makes it flow poorly, I'm sure there are other ways to fix the problem as well, the point is that something needs to change though.

backseat developing at it's finest. i remember why i left this forum and i think ill keep it that way for good now.

I could say that you illustrate blind faith at it's finest, at the end of the day nothing will change without feedback and discussion though.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

*Facepalm* Back seat developing. It's feedback not backseat developing.

[Ashelorh]

Pretty ironic that you are changing to hunter of all classes, seeing as that's often refered to as the most boring and dumbed down class across all their specs.

I enjoy MM and survival quite a lot. Fun's subjective

[Ianus]

i really miss storm he knows how to troll reghame the apologist and i have something to laugh to..