Fury Legion Discussion

[Ezymode]

While I agree it's more perception that anything else, it's still a disadvantage. Hard to quantify how much of a disadvantage though, and I do agree even though it's a disadvantage it's nowhere near as large as people are making it out to be. Also important to note is that almost all raid testing has you scaled up to essentially a maximum item level or farm mode item level. Not the item level you'll have when progressing on these bosses.

Thank you. This is the exact point i was trying to make. Not that im a bad and now i wont get away with standing in fire as Falken seems to think. Im not saying the sky is falling, quite the oppersite, i think fury is in a decent spot from my raid testing. Its the stigma that the class will inevitably get from the ill informed masses that is the issue im worried about. Take gladiator as an example...how long did it take for people to realise it was a dps class and not a tank. I witnessed people in heroics screaming for the glad to go arms / fury because they already had a tank in the group. Its the misconception from the masses that will harm the spec.

Just to be clear, before someone rages again about me being a scrub for hating the damage mechanic, i think the increased damage taken mechanic is FINE its public opinion tarnishing the spec that im worried about.

[Vexonia]

Hey quick request as I believe it was brought up a few pages back, but I missed the response. (Sorry for looping topics back around.) So when pre-patch hits, I have the ability to use pieces that would break 4-set (HFC tier). Since the Inner Rage build I will be going (and have been using on Beta) rarely uses Furious Noodle-Slash, would it be a better idea to optimize pieces and break 4-set? It may be negligible, but just wondering if it'd be a safe move, or if there would be a loss in DPS without that set bonus.

[Artunias]

Hey quick request as I believe it was brought up a few pages back, but I missed the response. (Sorry for looping topics back around.) So when pre-patch hits, I have the ability to use pieces that would break 4-set (HFC tier). Since the Inner Rage build I will be going (and have been using on Beta) rarely uses Furious Noodle-Slash, would it be a better idea to optimize pieces and break 4-set? It may be negligible, but just wondering if it'd be a safe move, or if there would be a loss in DPS without that set bonus.

Breaking the set bonus for better pieces, if you have them, worked out better for me on PTR. Difference isn't that large either way though.

[blackblade]

I understand the increased damage done is offset by a larger health pool. Though when people check logs during progression to see who has taken the most damage from certain mechanics, standing in fire, dots etc, the fury warrior, even if playing 100% optimally and following mechanics will always be at the top of the damage taken list (for dps classes). During progression when people are benched for such things this will be an issue. Unless of course you can convince your raid leader to whip out a calculator and do a few quick -30% sums after each pull, for each individual damage source, for every boss, to reveal the real results. This is just unnecessary complication for what purpose? As others have said this will just cause the ill informed to spread false information among the community and fury will be branded "bad for raiding".

You're not seeing the big picture here though. Shadow priests have a talent that literally kills them for poor play. Warlocks will still be using life tap to get mana. Disc/shadow has a spell that heals and then leaves a DoT on the healed target. Holy pallies have a heal that uses the pally's health instead of mana. You're not going to be the only one taking more damage than normal. Warlocks have been offsetting life tap with self-healing and high HP since vanilla. Nobody complained back then when Death Wish increased damage taken either (or if they did, they certainly didn't complain loud enough to get warriors excluded from raids).

[Archimtiros]

Hey quick request as I believe it was brought up a few pages back, but I missed the response. (Sorry for looping topics back around.) So when pre-patch hits, I have the ability to use pieces that would break 4-set (HFC tier). Since the Inner Rage build I will be going (and have been using on Beta) rarely uses Furious Noodle-Slash, would it be a better idea to optimize pieces and break 4-set? It may be negligible, but just wondering if it'd be a safe move, or if there would be a loss in DPS without that set bonus.

The T18 bonus sucks. It's hard to quantify exactly how much you'd gain by swapping pieces, but if you have significantly better itemized, higher ilvl, or socketed items, I'd suggest using them instead if able.

The issue with the 4p is threefold:

1) We don't use Furious Slash often. Even Frenzy builds only use it as much as they have to.
2) Bloodsurge is gone, so there's no guaranteed reduction as there was with Wild Strike.
3) Reck is already down to a 1m CD, so it's up quite often already.
4) Players will likely have a lot of crit already due to gear inflation.

If it's any consolation though, Arms' T18 bonus is even worse.

[Vexonia]

Hey thanks for the quick and thorough response folks. I will go ahead with that. But on a side note about the arms bonus: With dauntless, Mortal combo, Anger management ( I think), and class trinket? Arms set bonus with all the resets is insane. Resets left and right, never really hurting for rage, just -spamming- C-smash and MS.

[Deleted]

I once meet Collision in game, he is really nice guy, we talk a bit and it was good experience. Archi in other hand IS a falmer sometimes, it doesn't mean he doesn't give a good advice. And do you really belive only 3 warriors work on theoreycrafting? Don't protect them like a holy grall because you are taking info from them, even best are sometimes wrong.

No. Was admittedly a bit over the top with that statement. That being said, we're a minority within a minority as far as I can tell. And don't get me wrong, but most people that -do- behave that way to Theorycrafters, are those that rely on the guides those same people wrote. I will admit that I was triggered.

[Seramore]

Nobody complained back then when Death Wish increased damage taken either (or if they did, they certainly didn't complain loud enough to get warriors excluded from raids).

Wow, I totally forgot about that part of Death Wish. Didn't people used to glyph into that ability to reduce damage taken, though? It's been so long I honestly don't remember. You're definitely right about people not caring about Death Wish giving us increased damage, though. It was temporary but there were still points where we were taking increased damage during fights and I honestly didn't hear one complaint about it while raiding.

[Artunias]

Wow, I totally forgot about that part of Death Wish. Didn't people used to glyph into that ability to reduce damage taken, though? It's been so long I honestly don't remember. You're definitely right about people not caring about Death Wish giving us increased damage, though. It was temporary but there were still points where we were taking increased damage during fights and I honestly didn't hear one complaint about it while raiding.

If I remember correctly. Death wish was only 10% more damage. It was also a controllable cooldown and had much, much less uptime than enrage. That's not really a fair comparison lol.

[Seramore]

If I remember correctly. Death wish was only 10% more damage. It was also a controllable cooldown and had much, much less uptime than enrage. That's not really a fair comparison lol.

No, it gave you 20% increased damage taken. You're right, it really isn't a fair comparison but like I said, it was temporary and it still doesn't change the fact that there were still points where you took more damage.

This time you're taking the increased damage more often, except you have a higher health pool and more self healing.

[Artunias]

No, it gave you 20% increased damage taken. Like I said, it was temporary but it still doesn't change the fact that there were still points where you took more damage.

I just looked it up, at least in TBC it increased damage done by 20%, not taken. And increased damage taken by 5%.

Hardly comparable.

[Seramore]

I just looked it up, at least in TBC it increased damage done by 20%, not taken. And increased damage taken by 5%.

Hardly comparable.

My mistake, I completely misread the ability text. You're right.

[Ezymode]

You're not seeing the big picture here though. Shadow priests have a talent that literally kills them for poor play. Warlocks will still be using life tap to get mana. Disc/shadow has a spell that heals and then leaves a DoT on the healed target. Holy pallies have a heal that uses the pally's health instead of mana. You're not going to be the only one taking more damage than normal. Warlocks have been offsetting life tap with self-healing and high HP since vanilla. Nobody complained back then when Death Wish increased damage taken either (or if they did, they certainly didn't complain loud enough to get warriors excluded from raids).

Your missing my point unfortunately. I agree with you though deathwish is not a good example as we had the power to choose when to activate, similarly locks wont tap while they are taking heavy damage, but i see the point you are trying to make. I don't care about the increased damage taken. I fully understand how we are compensated for the increased damage taken. Its others misconception that worries me. For me personally it is not an issue, i have been mythic raiding with my guild for over 2 years and i know that my raid spot is secured. I also know the officers in my guild can easily see past the increased damage taken mechanic because it is null and void with class traits. I only raise this point for others who are not in my situation that might be looking to gain a raid spot for the first time in a new guild with raid leaders who see fury = extra damage taken = bad because of what they have heard. I really hope people are beginning to understand where i am coming from but just one last time.... i agree the extra damage taken is a non issue in any raiding scenario. Its the reputation we will gain from the spread of misinformation that will be detrimental to some of the playerbase.

[Warriorsarri]

The good one was Recklessness used to increase your damage taken by 30%. That combined with Berserker Stances 10% increase... Those where the days!

[Seramore]

Okay, maybe that's what I was thinking of. I knew there was an ability that increased your damage taken more than 5%. I really hate how much I've forgotten over years

[bladeXcrasher]

The good one was Recklessness used to increase your damage taken by 30%. That combined with Berserker Stances 10% increase... Those where the days!

Don't forget about Deathwish.

[Grosbill]

Blizzard purposefully went away from Zerk stance + reck + DW making the warrior take more damage because it was too punishing.

I don't see the increased damage taken lasting very long because it's not a "Trade", it's not "controllable" (like say, Reck and DW were), it's random and can pop at the wrong moment.

We'll be fine, but it's a pointless flavor that brings nothingn to the class. Just like Zerk stance did

[Deleted]

The good one was Recklessness used to increase your damage taken by 30%. That combined with Berserker Stances 10% increase... Those where the days!

One of the big differences between the % dmg taken increase then and now, was that we were able to stance/dance in and out (even into defensive stance) ... that combined with gerenal ignorance and the fact the we weren't living in a cry-wolf online/SoMe-society, made it acceptable I guess.

If only we had similar options, in preventing that increase dmg taken? Ohh wait, we do! It's called "/cancelaura Enrage"... congratulations, you now took a huge hit with no penalty, at a much larger HP pool than all the other DPSers. Can we get some more fury warriors in this raid please, cus they're the king of survival now

Sorry for being overly sarcastic - it seems the best way to combat misperception


EDIT:
And to the guy above stating Berserker Stance gave nothing to the class? It was an ability (stance) that didnt affect the skill floor but increased the skill ceiling. If that's your definition of pointless, then shame on you!

[Ezymode]

Sorry for being overly sarcastic - it seems the best way to combat misperception

This was my point all along. The misconception is already gaining ground in our own forum even with seasoned theory crafters explaining why it is a non issue. I agree the damage taken increase is fine, we have been compensated. I was merely tring to explain that misinformation spreads fast amongst the wider community.

[Deleted]

Just look into the arms thread, where even after there was a really big discussion about it, people still come in and say "yo is arms better than fury because I dont want to get those 30% more damage without having ANY self-heal", its like people reading headlines and then writing comments on newspaper sites online...