Thoughts on Tanking and Blood going into Legion (LONG)

[Deleted]

Yes. Really no changes ever have to be made to that other than potentially Purg for like Mythic raiding or undergeared heroics really.

A question, what would be the correct usage for Bonestorm? I suppose it's only for aoe situations, but when exactly is favorable to use rp on Bonestorm instead of Death Strike?

[Jellospally]

A question, what would be the correct usage for Bonestorm? I suppose it's only for aoe situations, but when exactly is favorable to use rp on Bonestorm instead of Death Strike?

Ideally you just use it for the next big pull going in with RP already ready.

No pull even in M10 is long enough to start with 0 rp and build up BS stacks if needed and/or RP and then use bonestorm. Its kinda the thing you just have ready for a pack / 1 gcd away as you pull.

[Deleted]

Ah ok, really clear answer. Thanks.

[Highwhale]

How Blood in raid fights? Like Botanist, Xavius, Ursoc and Tichondrius? In most of mythic fights i saw double bear tanking =\

[Xeoshades]

Bears a quite strong and the tuning phase made them even stronger XD. Seems double bears is great for progression.

[Breathing]

That will probably add up to quite a few more double DS in a row which makes the 2nd one 25% stronger and less open globals.

I think this is not necessary. Think it was Tyvi who figured out a while ago that Death Strike applies Blood Shield before doing damage. S you always get the benefit from Unending Thirst on the first Death Strike.

EDIT: I'm wrong. It doesn't do that anymore, not sure if it was a bug to begin with or they just changed their minds at some point. Just tested it, and you DO need to already have a blood shield applied from another Death Strike to benefit from Unending Thirst.

[Sinzaram]

In most of mythic fights i saw double bear tanking =\

That was very early alpha/beta before they cut bear mastery by 50%, so 50% less health and healing taken.
Early bears were very overtuned so everyone played one.

Should be much more sensible now and when it comes to live

[Chalaska]

Is it now worth using the tier set bonuses in the pre-patch?

[Zorish]

I think this is not necessary. Think it was Tyvi who figured out a while ago that Death Strike applies Blood Shield before doing damage. S you always get the benefit from Unending Thirst on the first Death Strike.

if i remember correctly and they not fixed it - only leech part benefit from this... not dmg increase...

[Tehr]

if i remember correctly and they not fixed it - only leech part benefit from this... not dmg increase...

In Legion, ALL damage effects are calculated when the spell connects and damage is dealt. That means that if the Leech functions, then the damage increase functions.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

No. Rune tap has no value in its current state. Its too weak on its own atm. Unless the % goes up its just way too weak for its cost(same can be said for literally every single non passive talent atm for BDK)

Bone Shield falls off at MOST 1 stack every 2 sec. You can maintain 6-10 stacks fairly easily. Granted during Necrotic you get fucked because the dot literally makes Bone Shield fall off on ICD because of the dot. Otherwise you have lots of option to not lose stacks.

The potential value of Rune Tap - probably the way designers intended - was to stack in on top of bone shield I'm guessing. I don't see where the extra 10% health from Foul Bulwark is godmode either, but at least it doesn't eat a rune. :P

[Milocow]

In Legion, ALL damage effects are calculated when the spell connects and damage is dealt. That means that if the Leech functions, then the damage increase functions.

Last time i tested it, you gain the leech even when you didnt have bloodshield up before you DS. But you needed BS up to gain the DS damage boost

[Jellospally]

The potential value of Rune Tap - probably the way designers intended - was to stack in on top of bone shield I'm guessing. I don't see where the extra 10% health from Foul Bulwark is godmode either, but at least it doesn't eat a rune. :P

Rune Tap just doesn't have enough value atm. Having 88% EHP 88% of all the time vs lets say 114% EHP(assuming 7 stacks of Bone Shield on average it will fluctuate but you want to be between 6-10 at all times) all the time. Id rather always have way more HP at all times to have room to heal it off.

In Dungeons maybe somehow someway Rune Tap is viable, but if we are talking raids it literally just isn't worth using. There is not enough burst to matter and the fights that feel like you might want it... they actually are super fucking high sustained dmg which actually makes Rune Tap worse than Foul Bulwark because you have so much less average EHP on a super high sustained dmg fight.

I mean I can't explain it as much as trox, but I understand the reasonings behind why you don't change the current talents I have posted many times in the last 3-5 pages. His new 36+ page Talent in depth guide/essay/suggestions on how to make the active talents better and the math behind why all the passive talents are just superior to the actives in everyway(no clue his real name for this but basically what its about). I've read through it all but without just copy pasting(what he might not think is what he wants to say) I can't really explain it any better.

[OrcsRLame]

Rune Tap just doesn't have enough value atm. Having 88% EHP 88% of all the time vs lets say 114% EHP(assuming 7 stacks of Bone Shield on average it will fluctuate but you want to be between 6-10 at all times) all the time. Id rather always have way more HP at all times to have room to heal it off.

In Dungeons maybe somehow someway Rune Tap is viable, but if we are talking raids it literally just isn't worth using. There is not enough burst to matter and the fights that feel like you might want it... they actually are super fucking high sustained dmg which actually makes Rune Tap worse than Foul Bulwark because you have so much less average EHP on a super high sustained dmg fight.

I mean I can't explain it as much as trox, but I understand the reasonings behind why you don't change the current talents I have posted many times in the last 3-5 pages. His new 36+ page Talent in depth guide/essay/suggestions on how to make the active talents better and the math behind why all the passive talents are just superior to the actives in everyway(no clue his real name for this but basically what its about). I've read through it all but without just copy pasting(what he might not think is what he wants to say) I can't really explain it any better.

I think the idea behind Rune Tap is that it's meant to help mitigate massive damage dealt over a short period of time. Kind of like Mannoroth's Glaive combo.

[hashtags]

Come Wed just so i understand correctly. Our rotation (for the lack of better word) will be something like marrowrend till we get 10ish boneshield charges? then heartstrike spam unless boneshield < 7 charges and death strike if u are @ 80rp or something like that? or am i missing something.

--
I forgot about Death Carcass on pull for BP and then death and decay on crimson scourge proc?

[Jellospally]

I think the idea behind Rune Tap is that it's meant to help mitigate massive damage dealt over a short period of time. Kind of like Mannoroth's Glaive combo.

Except that doesn't exist. Rune Tap is unneeded in the current raids in legion atm.

- - - Updated - - -

Come Wed just so i understand correctly. Our rotation (for the lack of better word) will be something like marrowrend till we get 10ish boneshield charges? then heartstrike spam unless boneshield < 7 charges and death strike if u are @ 80rp or something like that? or am i missing something.

--
I forgot about Death Carcass on pull for BP and then death and decay on crimson scourge proc?

Marrow at 6 or lower. I guess technically you can do 7 on 7.0 pre patch cuz you dont have artifact trait for a chance at 4th.

Don't Death Car... Blood Boil applies it.

Don't let more than 4 runes be off CD. Don't let BB sit at 2 charges. Don't RP Cap. Don't let DnD sit off CD unless you will overcap on everything by using it(haste will effect how easy it is to use this since lower will have more open globals but you want haste so ya). And obviously keep BS above 6 stacks.

[OrcsRLame]

Except that doesn't exist. Rune Tap is unneeded in the current raids in legion atm.

- - - Updated - - -



Marrow at 6 or lower. I guess technically you can do 7 on 7.0 pre patch cuz you dont have artifact trait for a chance at 4th.

Don't Death Car... Blood Boil applies it.

Don't let more than 4 runes be off CD. Don't let BB sit at 2 charges. Don't RP Cap. Don't let DnD sit off CD unless you will overcap on everything by using it(haste will effect how easy it is to use this since lower will have more open globals but you want haste so ya). And obviously keep BS above 6 stacks.

I never said that it made sense lol. I'm just saying that's clearly what it's meant for. It's another classic case of Blizzard designing something for a very specific niche, and then having that niche never be relevant or really come up in situations where it matters.

[Jellospally]

I never said that it made sense lol. I'm just saying that's clearly what it's meant for. It's another classic case of Blizzard designing something for a very specific niche, and then having that niche never be relevant or really come up in situations where it matters.

They just don't know how to make Active Talents better than Passive Talents. Thats all it is.

[hashtags]

Except that doesn't exist. Rune Tap is unneeded in the current raids in legion atm.

- - - Updated - - -



Marrow at 6 or lower. I guess technically you can do 7 on 7.0 pre patch cuz you dont have artifact trait for a chance at 4th.

Don't Death Car... Blood Boil applies it.

Don't let more than 4 runes be off CD. Don't let BB sit at 2 charges. Don't RP Cap. Don't let DnD sit off CD unless you will overcap on everything by using it(haste will effect how easy it is to use this since lower will have more open globals but you want haste so ya). And obviously keep BS above 6 stacks.

Thank you mate. You are awesome

[Zemask]

Hey guys, long time reading the forum, never posted till now

His new 36+ page Talent in depth guide/essay/suggestions on how to make the active talents better and the math behind why all the passive talents are just superior to the actives in everyway

I may have missed it but I guess I've read every single post of this thread and yet, I can't see it. Where can I find it please ?

Also, I wanted to ask the following question by PM but I don't have enough messages posted so : how I can add a signature to show my armory/logs etc ... ?
I can't find it in settings/profile ; maybe I don't have access to it yet ?