1. #2341
    Deleted
    Actually at the moment on my fresh dinged 100 warrior, on live prot is my best dps spec by at least 2k dps :P

    Also, a super fun is ravager + bladestorm: a meat grinder
    The parry bonus from ravager helps out while in bladestorm to counter some more damage

  2. #2342

    Sal's Declassified Prepatch Survival Guide

    Some notes for those interested in gearing optimally for prepatch:

    • According to Eddy on the Skyhold Discord, sims are running EDH and DC as the highest DPS trinkets for Protection at the moment. General consensus for survivability are WUE and ACP. WBR has seen a huge nerf, but may still be viable.
    • Haste is now our best stat, followed by Mastery and then Versatility and Critical Strike.
    • Certain "DPS" items become more valuable to us after the patch. Multistrike and Bonus Armor are being removed and will be changed to one of the 4 other stats, depending on what is already on the item.
      Ex. Live Congealed Globule Loop has Mastery/Multistrike.
      Beta Congealed Globule Loop has Mastery/Haste.
    • Use Haste gems for any slots currently in your gear. Multistrike gems will be changed to Haste upon the prepatch, so grab those if they're cheaper. Similarly, Haste enchants are now your best.
    • With the change to our gearing, and the general feedback of HFC hitting hard in comparison after the patch, it would be a good idea to get that tier set ready to go. The 4-piece set bonus has been changed to Ignore Pain from Shield Barrier, and IP is much more powerful than SB ever was.
    • Rotations:
      ST: Shield Slam > Revenge > Devastate
      AoE: Shield Slam > Revenge > Thunder Clap > Devastate
      Mitigation: Ignore Pain as much as possible. Use Shield Block where applicable.
    • Talent Setup for Dungeons: http://legion.wowhead.com/talent-cal...rotection/MGJM
    • Talent Setup for Raids: http://legion.wowhead.com/talent-cal...rotection/MFpz

    As always, talents are a bit more of a "use your brain" thing. Some of them will be better on certain bosses.

  3. #2343
    Deleted
    As far as i understood haste could be the best stat for fury too. Having both spec sharing almost the same stat priority could prove very handy!

  4. #2344
    Quote Originally Posted by Faceless Jim View Post
    As far as i understood haste could be the best stat for fury too. Having both spec sharing almost the same stat priority could prove very handy!
    IIRC, Arms wants Haste to a certain extent too. We all just switched out Critical Strike with Haste ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  5. #2345
    Arms wants haste non-stop during the pre-patch. Fury wants "enough" haste (38% counting class trinket stacks), but it's not a bad stat if you go slightly to high either. If you're in doubt, or you want to play all three specs at a decent level, prioritizing haste is a safe bet.
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  6. #2346
    Shadow the Edgehog

    I'm gonna use my Unending Hunger + Empty Drinking Horn, just like in Mythic farm mode. I don't think you have to stack haste while leveling, it's a great survival stat, but I'd rather go full crit build to kill mobs faster. but I'm talking leveling of course.

  7. #2347
    Quote Originally Posted by Hostile View Post
    Shadow the Edgehog

    I'm gonna use my Unending Hunger + Empty Drinking Horn, just like in Mythic farm mode. I don't think you have to stack haste while leveling, it's a great survival stat, but I'd rather go full crit build to kill mobs faster. but I'm talking leveling of course.
    Haste is still the optimal stat for leveling. Crit is our worst, further devalued by having Battle Cry on such a short cooldown and having Shatter the Bones be the first artifact trait we'll put points into. Also, don't forget that secondary stat scaling has been nerfed from 101-110. We won't see stat precentages as high as we did while leveling during WoD.

  8. #2348
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow the Edgehog View Post
    Some notes for those interested in gearing optimally for prepatch:

    • According to Eddy on the Skyhold Discord, sims are running EDH and DC as the highest DPS trinkets for Protection at the moment. General consensus for survivability are WUE and ACP. WBR has seen a huge nerf, but may still be viable.
    • Haste is now our best stat, followed by Mastery and then Versatility and Critical Strike.
    • Certain "DPS" items become more valuable to us after the patch. Multistrike and Bonus Armor are being removed and will be changed to one of the 4 other stats, depending on what is already on the item.
      Ex. Live Congealed Globule Loop has Mastery/Multistrike.
      Beta Congealed Globule Loop has Mastery/Haste.
    • Use Haste gems for any slots currently in your gear. Multistrike gems will be changed to Haste upon the prepatch, so grab those if they're cheaper. Similarly, Haste enchants are now your best.
    • With the change to our gearing, and the general feedback of HFC hitting hard in comparison after the patch, it would be a good idea to get that tier set ready to go. The 4-piece set bonus has been changed to Ignore Pain from Shield Barrier, and IP is much more powerful than SB ever was.
    • Rotations:
      ST: Shield Slam > Revenge > Devastate
      AoE: Shield Slam > Revenge > Thunder Clap > Devastate
      Mitigation: Ignore Pain as much as possible. Use Shield Block where applicable.
    • Talent Setup for Dungeons: http://legion.wowhead.com/talent-cal...rotection/MGJM
    • Talent Setup for Raids: http://legion.wowhead.com/talent-cal...rotection/MFpz

    As always, talents are a bit more of a "use your brain" thing. Some of them will be better on certain bosses.
    I agree with the raid talent choices, but not 100% sure I agree with the dungeon talent choices from a defensive standpoint. For pre-patch dungeons you'll likely do quite a lot more AoE damage on trash packs with RF, ItF and Ravager, sure, but opting out of Veng and HR for Legion dungeons is a big hit to your survivability. With crit our worst stat and the nerf to Riposte, we're going to have so little parry that an extra 30% isn't going to do a whole lot aside from decrease our rage gen and our overall chance to block, thereby reducing Scales of Earth procs and Dragon Scale procs.

    I'm really starting to think that ItF's extra Haste isn't going to make up for cutting your IP cost in half via Veng. If you can always pool at least 31 rage before you use IP and V:FR is up, hitting FR first then taking your half rage cost IP is nearly always going to be possible, and will be a bigger rage savings the more rage you pool, up to 45. And this is all without Ultimatum.

  9. #2349
    Quote Originally Posted by Beardyface View Post
    Haste is still the optimal stat for leveling. Crit is our worst, further devalued by having Battle Cry on such a short cooldown and having Shatter the Bones be the first artifact trait we'll put points into. Also, don't forget that secondary stat scaling has been nerfed from 101-110. We won't see stat precentages as high as we did while leveling during WoD.
    well, if I don't get my 50% crit chance, and get nerfed to like 20-30%, then you're probably right, it's not really worth it.

  10. #2350
    Whats the defensive priority for prot (assuming single target boss tanking)? Try to keep IP up 24/7?

  11. #2351
    Quote Originally Posted by reighnman View Post
    Whats the defensive priority for prot (assuming single target boss tanking)? Try to keep IP up 24/7?
    Both IP and Shield Block, but yes.

  12. #2352
    Quote Originally Posted by Beardyface View Post
    I agree with the raid talent choices, but not 100% sure I agree with the dungeon talent choices from a defensive standpoint. For pre-patch dungeons you'll likely do quite a lot more AoE damage on trash packs with RF, ItF and Ravager, sure, but opting out of Veng and HR for Legion dungeons is a big hit to your survivability. With crit our worst stat and the nerf to Riposte, we're going to have so little parry that an extra 30% isn't going to do a whole lot aside from decrease our rage gen and our overall chance to block, thereby reducing Scales of Earth procs and Dragon Scale procs.

    I'm really starting to think that ItF's extra Haste isn't going to make up for cutting your IP cost in half via Veng. If you can always pool at least 31 rage before you use IP and V:FR is up, hitting FR first then taking your half rage cost IP is nearly always going to be possible, and will be a bigger rage savings the more rage you pool, up to 45. And this is all without Ultimatum.
    This is a thrown-together prepatch "guide", so it's assuming we're outgearing heroic and mythic dungeons (which we should be, frankly), with the intention of answering "what can I DPS down with the fastest?" in mind. We're all but unkillable with Ignore Pain anyways, and not much is going to be able to bust through it, so gathering up as much as you can and just going to town was what I was going for (admittedly, Avatar might work better, but IMO Renewed Fury works better over the entirety of the dungeon).

    Talents for dungeons at 110 will be different.

  13. #2353
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow the Edgehog View Post
    This is a thrown-together prepatch "guide", so it's assuming we're outgearing heroic and mythic dungeons (which we should be, frankly), with the intention of answering "what can I DPS down with the fastest?" in mind. We're all but unkillable with Ignore Pain anyways, and not much is going to be able to bust through it, so gathering up as much as you can and just going to town was what I was going for (admittedly, Avatar might work better, but IMO Renewed Fury works better over the entirety of the dungeon).

    Talents for dungeons at 110 will be different.
    That's what I was thinking so when I read this post saying IP was situational I was all ???

    My thoughts were keep IP up and shield block when there is enough rage to not interfere with that as a 20rage IP most likely absorbs more than a shield block. I added uptime trackers for IP/SB as well assuming that if you have IP up 100% you took 0 dmg!
    Last edited by reighnman; 2016-07-19 at 12:06 AM.

  14. #2354
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow the Edgehog View Post
    We're all but unkillable with Ignore Pain anyways, and not much is going to be able to bust through it, so gathering up as much as you can and just going to town was what I was going for (admittedly, Avatar might work better, but IMO Renewed Fury works better over the entirety of the dungeon).
    For pre-patch, sure. For Legion, remember that anything we put up in front of our IP shield makes it last longer, SB, any defensives, etc. IP used with nothing else will get eaten through pretty quick. We want to stack IP as high as we can and then try to keep anything from touching it, which is why HR is so powerful, as it's our go-to "don't touch my IP spell". HR also synergizes really well with a good portion of our Artifact, including two of our Golden Dragon traits, and paired with Ultimatum it synergizes really well with Shatter the Bones. Avatar is nice for a couple slighty beefier IPs every 90 seconds, but Renewed Fury doesn't buff IP much, since any IP you use to get the measly 6 second buff up will consume all of your available IP rage (up to 60), and then to get it to buff a decent IP, you need to get to 60 again within six seconds. Of course, it's slightly easier with Vengeance, but not by a lot. It's not going to be often in fights that we're going to be able to pool 120 rage before popping an IP, but that's the best way to use RF for survivability without Veng. With Veng, you'd only have to pool 90 to get the same effect, and that's assuming you already have the V:FR buff up when you hit 90. RF was a lot stronger back when IP had a fixed 40 rage cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow the Edgehog View Post
    This is a thrown-together prepatch "guide", so it's assuming we're outgearing heroic and mythic dungeons (which we should be, frankly), with the intention of answering "what can I DPS down with the fastest?" in mind.

    Talents for dungeons at 110 will be different.
    Cool.

  15. #2355
    Do we have Simcraft or other sims available to play with ourselves yet?

  16. #2356
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaexaender View Post
    Do we have Simcraft or other sims available to play with ourselves yet?
    Nope. Not yet. I've been working hard on creating the APL for Prot and providing info for all the changes for the SimC team, now we just have to wait for it to be implemented. AMR's simulator isn't done either. Basically, Soon™.

  17. #2357
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow the Edgehog View Post
    This is a thrown-together prepatch "guide", so it's assuming we're outgearing heroic and mythic dungeons (which we should be, frankly), with the intention of answering "what can I DPS down with the fastest?" in mind. We're all but unkillable with Ignore Pain anyways, and not much is going to be able to bust through it, so gathering up as much as you can and just going to town was what I was going for
    Is this true for the stat priority too, in that he went for dps over survivabiliy? Or is this the stat priority at 110 also.

  18. #2358
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaexaender View Post
    Is this true for the stat priority too, in that he went for dps over survivabiliy? Or is this the stat priority at 110 also.
    Yes, Haste > Mastery > Crit/Versatility is the stat priority at 100 as well, as far as we can tell. As Marok said, once sims are done, we'll know better.

  19. #2359
    Hey I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. @Marok is right, the AMR simulator will have tank stuff soon. We have some new metrics we're testing and then we should be able to launch it.

    The simulator is very solid and well tested for all DPS specs though. Some APLs need some extra love, others are looking pretty good. If you see a 'default' rotation, it's in pretty good shape. A "template" rotation hasn't been optimized yet though.
    Ask Mr. Robot Human Minion

  20. #2360
    Do we have at least very, very rough estimations, how far the different stats will be from each other? I try to plan which items I am going to wear after the patch and some comparisons are really, really tough, without an idea, how much better for example haste will be than crit.

    So as I understood that no final simcraft release is finished, yet, are there any rough calculations for stat weights (dps and survival) around?

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