[Legion] Shadow Priest Discussion

[Tanned]

I understand and agree. It feels awkward being so absurdly far behind on most trash pulls, and I hope there's something they can tweak to make it less awful. I feel great on boss dps though, especially after banking insanity, so it's hard for me to get too upset personally.

Except when you realize that a lot of other classes can crush you on both trash packs and boss damage. Run with a Windwalker Monk and you'll see what I mean.

[Dawnrage]

Hate to go off topic here from the last few pages, but with prepatch tomorrow, I'm wondering if anyone has a good stat priority to go for? I see twintip recommended haste for everything on the icyvein website, but are we suppose to just stack haste regardless of what we are at? I would think haste would not be good past a certain point (when paired with StM) and it might be better to go crit for more AS procs, but I don't know if there is such a point or not.

Any help would be appreciated.

[davesignal]

Haste to the moon, crit when you can get it.

[Onyd]

I've just realized what this thread reminds me of. Remember at the beginning of WoD when everybody was bemoaning shadow priest talents and the theorycrafters figured out about CoPLite and DotWeaving? And then later every argument would dissolve over the minutiae of different talents applied to different situations? The combination of talent/ability versatility and high skill ceiling is a characteristic of the class, and it seems like that will continue in Legion.

[davesignal]

It reminds you of theorycrafters discovering a poorly thought out mechanic was implemented half-assedly, which Blizzard didn't think would become viable or popular because they put very little research into the subject, which ended up fucking up the balancing of the entire class for half of an expansion?

I suppose it makes sense that the only way Shadow would have any position of prominence is through negligence on Blizzard's behalf.

[Yizu]

People tend to release the videos where their performance is good... also a video doesnt prove much at all since they could be good players in a raid of below average people. I feel more reassured by what isentropy said since he's actually in a good guild so if he's seeing good numbers compared to other guildies it means priest isnt bad... still id love to see some public logs from good guilds to actually have a rough idea about how we are doing.

There are some people here like that Isentropy guy who only care about performance in raids with really long 1-3 target boss fights, no doubt spriests excel in that. Hes saying that spriest is THE best caster, maybe if everything in WoW is a patchwerk or a council fight. Some of us here is actually worried about the spec as a whole you know. Im not too worried about the DPS. Although playing a mage for over 9 years, i had a blink, a mobility spell, 2 immunities, cheat death and a good aoe/cleave for dungeons while still having really good ST dps. Dont get me wrong im really having fun with the new spriest but do you see my dilemma? Inb4 you ask me to shut up and just play a mage

[N1gh7h4wk]

For stat picking: I did a lot of sims with a lot of variation.
With and without MH on lvl 100 and 110 there are only two different scenarios:
HASTE>CRIT>>vers~=mastery or CRIT>HASTE>Int>mastery>vers (multi target with AS obviously).
Sometimes with more than 2 targets mastery is ahead of vers for pre patch. With MH available, mastery is usually over Versatility. But after all my recommanded stats are haste+ crit on every piece of gear. If thats not available try to at least get some haste. Haste helps us multidot faster/ get more targets into a smooth VB rotation and get higher voidform stacks -> even more multiplicative haste.

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The only downside i get to know in higher myth+ is: either you burst huge chunks of mobs (teeming lol) or you cc them and kill them in smaller numbers.
As shadow you can't help bursting these huge mob groups, so you have to cc guys. Thats the point where you start inviting mages and shamans because you don't have cc. Shackle undead does not work in legion. We got no undead out there.

[Isentropy]

There are some people here like that Isentropy guy who only care about performance in raids with really long 1-3 target boss fights, no doubt spriests excel in that. Hes saying that spriest is THE best caster, maybe if everything in WoW is a patchwerk or a council fight. Some of us here is actually worried about the spec as a whole you know. Im not too worried about the DPS. Although playing a mage for over 9 years, i had a blink, a mobility spell, 2 immunities, cheat death and a good aoe/cleave for dungeons while still having really good ST dps. Dont get me wrong im really having fun with the new spriest but do you see my dilemma? Inb4 you ask me to shut up and just play a mage

Geez, that's a lot of words you're putting into my mouth there. I'm not saying shadow is only really good only on single target/council fights (council fights don't even exist in the first tier). If you look at the fights in Emerald Nightmare, shadow doesn't really have a fight in there that you can say we're bad at. On Xavius and Cenarius I can see the potential for shadow being able to pull some ridiculous numbers with StM. When I say that shadow is good, I always specify that I'm talking about raids. I've been one of the loudest voices in regards to our shitty performance outside of raids. So no, I don't just care about raids. I was just setting the record straight about someone blatantly spreading misinformation for no reason other than to impose his own dislike of the spec on to other people.

[Ilir]

I think a lot of people mistake "the class feels bad to play/has weird design choice" with "the class does no dps".

I know that a lot of my complaints about the class are about those weird talents like Mind Spike, VoidRay or spells like Shadowfiend that feels so aweful to use untalented. (dunno if they made Shadowfiend generate insanity baseline ?).

Also the whole dominate mind fiasco.

Then I think everyone agrees on the fact that shadow is kinda lame outside of raid content.

I also hate the new Void Eruption spell, adding a 2sec cast time to Voidform after being used to it being instant is... really upsetting me lol.

Then again, it's only my opinion and I'm not saying the class is trash... just that I'm sad about some design choices they made (and the lack of tentacles omfg T_T).

[bladeson]

I would like if they implement shadow crash or a similar spell baseline. Shadow crash gives a good insanity boost (15 or 45 with StM) off the gcd and decent damage to boot, which I can see being helpful in a hectic high voidform stack situation.
It's also a shame that Mind sear needs 14 seconds of continuous channeling (assuming 20% haste) to match the damage of one shadow crash cast, so definitely some massive buffs needed for it. I think those 2 (simple-ish?) changes with Void Eruption made instant would make spriest much more enjoyable (for me atleast).

[Yvaelle]

Let me ask you something: do you think people post any old pull as a big video production, or do you think they cherry pick their best performances?

When I bother to upload things I'm pretty lazy - I post whatever I have.

[Kis]

Then again, it's only my opinion and I'm not saying the class is trash... just that I'm sad about some design choices they made (and the lack of tentacles omfg T_T).

You get tentacles from 15 stacks of Voidform onwards. That is at least half the time you spend in a regular Voidform, in StM you can barely see yourself because you are covered in so much tentacle, you wonder why you aren't living in japan yet.
I think the timing is alright, the tentacles look nice and spawn at an alright rate. With good gear you have a lot of time with tentacles attached to you. Don't fret, it's gonna be alright.

[N1gh7h4wk]

You get tentacles from 15 stacks of Voidform onwards. That is at least half the time you spend in a regular Voidform, in StM you can barely see yourself because you are covered in so much tentacle, you wonder why you aren't living in japan yet.
I think the timing is alright, the tentacles look nice and spawn at an alright rate. With good gear you have a lot of time with tentacles attached to you. Don't fret, it's gonna be alright.

As goblin, my tentacles just disappear into a purple cloud.
Only in dispersion i get to see them.
Looks like a cloud-snail or whatever.
When i'm at home i will do some math about hastecaps for vb and mf usage while under gcd cap. Unless someone already did the math.

[Deleted]

Hardcore raider in vanilla, casual since TBC here. Mostly played Warlock and shaman, rolled priest alts several times but always quit around level 20.

Decided to give it a go finally in Legion and reach max level. My warlock as been losing me more and more with the revamps and overhauls. Fuck demons, Old Gods are much cooler. I'm not bothered by all the negativity I've read, since I check a lot of class/spec forums and there's almost none not covered in doom and gloom posts.
I figure it's going to be alright for everyone.

[marathal]

Really? Everyone seems to have been saying ToF/B&S/whatever/RoS(for execute phases)/AS or SI/StM. Sometimes you see void lord instead of RoS. LotV might also pop up every now and then but StM is just so OP it overshadows LotV. I've seen maybe a handful of posts testing out FotM instead of ToF, but for the most part its the talents listed above as the go to choices.

Sorry, just seemed to me that there was still discussion going on as to a direction. At least to me. I will just go back to lurking and wait for someone to put up a guide, that hopefully explains some reasoning behind why which choices may be better over others.

[Ilir]

You get tentacles from 15 stacks of Voidform onwards. That is at least half the time you spend in a regular Voidform, in StM you can barely see yourself because you are covered in so much tentacle, you wonder why you aren't living in japan yet.
I think the timing is alright, the tentacles look nice and spawn at an alright rate. With good gear you have a lot of time with tentacles attached to you. Don't fret, it's gonna be alright.

I know, but I've been playing since the beginning of the alpha and before there were a lot more tentacles. I really got "attached" to them (lol) and now it just feels lacking.
But I'll get over it.

[Onyd]

It reminds you of theorycrafters discovering a poorly thought out mechanic was implemented half-assedly, which Blizzard didn't think would become viable or popular because they put very little research into the subject, which ended up fucking up the balancing of the entire class for half of an expansion?

I suppose it makes sense that the only way Shadow would have any position of prominence is through negligence on Blizzard's behalf.

No, I think it reminds me of what I actually said.

Having been a (pen&paper) GM where the players thought up an unpredicted-by-me permutation, hey, it happens.

Not sure what you mean by "balancing". How powerful do you think shadow priest should have been in WoD?

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But I'll get over it.

I think we need a firm commitment to a date when this is going to happen. Surely you aren't going to play a class which isn't seeming fun to you for the whole expansion?

[N1gh7h4wk]

Yo guys i did some math.
I found for 100 stacks voidform and from 32% base haste and upward: skipping MF between two VB is an IPS gain. Below you will want to cast the MF to get more insanity into your StM. All hail the 2 button single target specc!
Edit: did some miscalculations, you would actually need ~70%

[Gorsameth]

Yo guys i did some math.
I found for 100 stacks voidform and from 32% base haste and upward: skipping MF between two VB is an IPS gain. Below you will want to cast the MF to get more insanity into your StM. All hail the 2 button single target specc!

Yes, for the last 20 seconds of a fight you only need 2 buttons.
Wow...

[Isentropy]

Yes, for the last 20 seconds of a fight you only need 2 buttons.
Wow...

Last 20 seconds. Hah. Good one.