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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    On social mobility, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility

    Should be plenty of citations available at the bottom. (Spoiler: The US does not score very well).
    It's because we have sub cultures, millions of people, who shun education, see it as effeminate even. How do you get ahead without an education.
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

  2. #162
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    I don't vote based of charisma, and I hope others also don't(well... they do, so tough luck for me).

    The era of the Willem van Orangjes and Ruyters is long over.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Master of Coins View Post
    The thing to remember is as awesome as those sort of people are, they are rare, and we shouldn't have a government structured around dependence on any one man being perfectly ethical. Because once a horrible one gets in there, they could bring down the entire country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

  4. #164
    Money in the west gets you to much political power. Lead to a lot of rich people without much direction calling the shots beyond their own personal economic goals

  5. #165
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damajin View Post
    We need both, but the key factor is the willingness to step back from what they do so in essence they don't become that 'bigger than the movement/issue' cult thing that others have expressed. Leaders encompass all sorts of traits but the one most necessary to avoid becoming oppressive is humility and eagerness to step away when appropriate. The Tao te Ching is loaded with passages dealing with exactly these types of leaders, how they should be and how far they should go which to sum it up is to say: as far as necessary, modestly and not a step farther.
    That's the problem: leaders do not like to go away, either from selfish desires, or because they are afraid their successor will turn away from their ideas (as has happened many times throughout the history). I think the current system is the best, when leaders do not, well, lead, but independent leaders inspire people by their speeches and actions. People like Nick Vujicic, Stephen Hawking, Bethany Hamilton - what is a better inspiration than someone who had the nature take away from them something that everyone else has by default, and still incredibly succeeded at life? Much more inspiring than, say, Alexander the Great, who was just a great warlord and manager, but didn't have to overcome unimaginable difficulties life brought into his life.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

  6. #166

  7. #167
    Why would I want to follow a leader? I'm for democracy!

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by May90 View Post
    That's the problem: leaders do not like to go away, either from selfish desires, or because they are afraid their successor will turn away from their ideas (as has happened many times throughout the history). I think the current system is the best, when leaders do not, well, lead, but independent leaders inspire people by their speeches and actions. People like Nick Vujicic, Stephen Hawking, Bethany Hamilton - what is a better inspiration than someone who had the nature take away from them something that everyone else has by default, and still incredibly succeeded at life? Much more inspiring than, say, Alexander the Great, who was just a great warlord and manager, but didn't have to overcome unimaginable difficulties life brought into his life.
    You might want to check the particulars of what Alexander the Great had to overcome before he was given that sobriquet and yet for as great as he was, what claimed him in the end? Fever, or if darker stories are true poison. All great leaders are eventually laid low.

    Leaders in most times don't like to go away but we also haven't had a specific type of leadership culture that has emphasized and exalted that particular trait and decision either, instead we see thousands of years of Dynasty fueled tales and propaganda that more or less mentors leader types to yearn for and aspire to immortal permanence and to cultify themselves whenever and however imaginable. Get all that crap out of the mix in cultural entertainment and in schooling and highlight the need to, as it says in the Tao:

    Whoever relies on the Tao in governing men
    doesn't try to force issues
    or defeat enemies by force of arms.
    For every force there is a counterforce.
    Violence, even well intentioned,
    always rebounds upon oneself.

    The Master does his job
    and then stops.
    He understands that the universe
    is forever out of control,
    and that trying to dominate events
    goes against the current of the Tao.
    Because he believes in himself,
    he doesn't try to convince others.
    Because he is content with himself,
    he doesn't need others' approval.
    Because he accepts himself,
    the whole world accepts him.
    Stepping away is the only way for leaders who've once they've finished the job can actually ensure that their efforts come to some sort of fruition. That others could undo what they did is only relevant to those concerned with Dynasty, and a properly trained and enlightened section of society focused on doing the job and then stepping out of the way of society wouldn't care for such at all.
    The Fresh Prince of Baudelaire

    Banned at least 10 times. Don't give a fuck, going to keep saying what I want how I want to.

    Eat meat. Drink water. Do cardio and burpees. The good life.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    What do you think?
    I don't think leaders are necessary. Just representatives accountable to their constituency.

    Ni dieu ni maître.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    You know, someone you can rally behind in bad times? Someone that actually has a vision for the Western world and it's societies? Not someone that simply reacts to events (and often also poorly)

    There arent any in Europe and neither will there be one in the US any time soon (no matter who wins).
    It's kinda depressing really, I think we could really use one or more in the years to come.

    What do you think?
    Name a world leader that you actually want to follow. Anywhere in the world. Go for it.

  11. #171
    Mechagnome
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    Of course there aren't! I'm in Australia and we've had **** leaders ever since the country was founded. On top of that, they still take their pledge to that old bag in England and add "so help me God". **** off with that **** already!! Also they're almost all homophobes and anti-evolution and anti-progress. Too weak-willed and weak in general!

    And that's just one country in the world!

    I'd rather follow Daenerys Targaryen than ANYONE from our non-fictional history!

  12. #172
    Banned The Penguin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Or are you pining for more moral times when gays were in the closet, women were in the kitchen and coloured folks weren't so uppity?
    You'll have to clarify when you make off topic ramblings. I don't know what your talking about now. I'm talking about the fact that Athiests are allowed to make "Christianity. A fairy tale" signs in public areas, yet doing the same on Muslims would be disallowed on grounds of being "incendiary". I suppose calling all things incendiary irrespective of race, religion or creed.. namely actual equality appears to be something lost on you.

    But then again this is hardly surprising since you immediately fell back on "colored" folks as a topic change.

    Why are you so racist? Stop being a racist. No one is asking for any of what you asked, and you know it full well. Can't you make a fair argument without trying to shift a legitimate point to the defensive? Actually I take that back. I suppose that was too much to ask from someone still stuck in 1960s terminology and mindset. Your broad painting of all Christians as X makes you as bad as those who claim all Muslims are suicide bombers.

    Need to get with the times man and if you can't, get out of the way of those who are.
    Last edited by The Penguin; 2016-07-19 at 04:41 AM.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Yeah, we should be more like Russia, Turkey or North Korea. /s

    People shouldn't follow leaders.
    Politicians are here to represent ideals and movements.
    Sorry, but Putin isn't the kind of leader this thread wants.

    He is also all about reactive rather then proactive actions, lacks clear vision and direction of where he wants to get the country (other then vague "part of world system"), and does a lot of half-measures that appease noone fully.

  14. #174
    Herald of the Titans Ratyrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShasVa View Post
    Of course there aren't! I'm in Australia and we've had **** leaders ever since the country was founded. On top of that, they still take their pledge to that old bag in England and add "so help me God". **** off with that **** already!! Also they're almost all homophobes and anti-evolution and anti-progress. Too weak-willed and weak in general!

    And that's just one country in the world!

    I'd rather follow Daenerys Targaryen than ANYONE from our non-fictional history!
    So you'd rather follow someone whose only capital is not being burned by fire and who proved completely inept at reconciling warring factions in the city under her rule. Awesome choice.

    The Western world doesn't need leaders. It needs trust in the systems designed to work without leaders. It therefore needs narrators that can produce this trust; leading politicians are not good candidates for that role because it immediately makes them populist.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Hana Song View Post
    Yes, that is likely
    People cheating on their partners everywhere and no punishment for it
    People killing their kids because they think they are trouble
    People engaging in dubious sexual acts
    No respect for family
    Me and my fiancé would be more conservative leaning but we are into some pretty dubious shit lol

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Hana Song View Post
    Yes, that is likely
    People cheating on their partners everywhere and no punishment for it
    People killing their kids because they think they are trouble
    People engaging in dubious sexual acts
    No respect for family
    3 out of your 4 points seem to have to do with Sex. I hardly see the connection between geopolitics, economics and sex.

    The idea that in the past somehow we were more "moral" is hilarious.

    1, Slavery. Human trafficking. Literally. Most slaveholders were known to rape their slaves.
    2, Syphilis was the plague of the 17th to 19th century.
    3, Most political leaders of times of yore were known to have concubines or outright be gay (it's okay to be gay if you are the King.)

    Name a Western historical leader and I'll point out how their character was beyond dubious in one or another way.

    If anything generations past were more immoral, not just because of the shitty shady shit they would engage in, but also because they used to be extremely hypocritical about it.

    Your "moral" past, is literally a figment of your imagination.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by vaeevictiss View Post
    learn to laugh.
    That's why I'm here.
    Quote Originally Posted by THE Bigzoman View Post
    Meant Wetback. That's what the guy from Home Depot called it anyway.
    ==================================
    If you say pls because it is shorter than please,
    I'll say no because it is shorter than yes.
    ==================================

  18. #178
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taftvalue View Post
    The problem with the West, summed up, is moral decay.
    better to have leaders you have little faith in, then blindly following a totalitarian

  19. #179
    If you are talented, smart, capable, and effective, why would you run for office? The pay is low and you face endless media scrutiny. You have to be insane to do it. That leaves you with a pool of candidates that range from insane to stupid. Anyone smart and skilled is going to realize they can be much happier running their own business where they have 100% control.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Geert Wilders is someone to follow in dark times that are coming ahead.
    Im extremely baffled by that statement, Geert Wilders should be kicked/banished/stateless, that guy is just... ugh

    Dangerous, Unstable , abit like Boris Johnson in that regard that if he gets the power he cant do anything at all, if he wants do something he needs the ''Eerste Kamer'' behind him, but seeing thats never the case, he needs to abolish it, which is a rather undemocratic action to take, possibly angering the EU and NATO.
    Last edited by Fuiking; 2016-07-19 at 01:49 PM.

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