HFC nerfs are in.

[Raiju]

Well done, you've understood the reason we accept using unfair loot systems - because handing out loot unfairly gives better progress.

Wasn't like I've said this nearly every post for 5-6 posts now or anything.

[Deleted]

his guild is still going against the meta and lusting in p3, so I presume he is talking about them specifically x)

It's funny that you attempted that bait by replying to him, considering Dracodraco has posted multiple times how stupid it was for guilds in progress to go 1 doomfire.

[Joozt]

Casuals will use DKP like systems wile people who care about fast progress will use LC ..
I play this game to progress I dont give a crap about loot only progress, I am a healer I pass a lot of loot in favor for progress..
THE END


On topic:
Anyone raiding mythic now?
I wonder how mythic is now is it harder? Since we do a lot less damage?
Anyone got any items above 750 yet?

[Dracodraco]

It's funny that you attempted that bait by replying to him, considering Dracodraco has posted multiple times how stupid it was for guilds in progress to go 1 doomfire.

Entirely true. Guilds on progress that kept wiping to third/fourth infernals really fucking shot themselves in the foot by 1-doomfiring instead of 2-doomfiring.

That said, guilds that had Archi on farm prior to the ilvl buffs I've never seen anything wrong with using lust in P1 to burn the encounter, as they'll only get 3x infernal waves in the last phase (so they can ring 1+3 and the second wave is very non-threatening), so it's down to the situation what I'd recommend. But you're entirely right; I'd never tell a progressing guild to 1-doomfire. That was always retarded in my mind, only reason 3-doomfiring was difficult was because you only had one healer left to keep tanks alive and nobody on the raid, with 2x doomfires you've got both a tank and a raid healer leftover.

[Dizzeeyooo]

It's funny that you attempted that bait by replying to him, considering Dracodraco has posted multiple times how stupid it was for guilds in progress to go 1 doomfire.

not sure killing archimonde 3 times counts as still progressing the boss, but anyway

[Dracodraco]

not sure killing archimonde 3 times counts as still progressing the boss, but anyway

In fairness Dizzee, anyone who progressed Archi after the Ilvl buffs (and needed them to kill him - that is, a lack of performance was holding them back, not time/effort) likely would never benefit from going with a 1-doomfire strat in P1. It makes two entirely trivial phases more trivial (and make no mistake, with the added HP that means you can't get 1 shot by 2x lasers etc, P2 is extremely trivial even with 2 doomfires), and makes the only difficult phase harder, because bad performance means fuckups on infernals, and no lust/ring on the sets of 4 infernals means wipes - even after 3 farm kills. So I'd have to agree with Tobin there, you'd be a fool to change a working strategy around if you haven't suddenly gotten a ton of extra DPS.

[Dizzeeyooo]

In fairness Dizzee, anyone who progressed Archi after the Ilvl buffs (and needed them to kill him - that is, a lack of performance was holding them back, not time/effort) likely would never benefit from going with a 1-doomfire strat in P1. It makes two entirely trivial phases more trivial (and make no mistake, with the added HP that means you can't get 1 shot by 2x lasers etc, P2 is extremely trivial even with 2 doomfires), and makes the only difficult phase harder, because bad performance means fuckups on infernals, and no lust/ring on the sets of 4 infernals means wipes - even after 3 farm kills. So I'd have to agree with Tobin there, you'd be a fool to change a working strategy around if you haven't suddenly gotten a ton of extra DPS.

fair point, I hadn't considered how much more difficult p3 would remain even on farm for a relatively weaker performing raid group - thanks for correcting me

[Deleted]

not sure killing archimonde 3 times counts as still progressing the boss, but anyway

In fairness Dizzee, anyone who progressed Archi after the Ilvl buffs (and needed them to kill him - that is, a lack of performance was holding them back, not time/effort) likely would never benefit from going with a 1-doomfire strat in P1. It makes two entirely trivial phases more trivial (and make no mistake, with the added HP that means you can't get 1 shot by 2x lasers etc, P2 is extremely trivial even with 2 doomfires), and makes the only difficult phase harder, because bad performance means fuckups on infernals, and no lust/ring on the sets of 4 infernals means wipes - even after 3 farm kills. So I'd have to agree with Tobin there, you'd be a fool to change a working strategy around if you haven't suddenly gotten a ton of extra DPS.

We had to pug a lot last week and we eventually went with all the zergs. 1 doomfire, not waiting on p2 at all to get 1st ring on 1st infernals etc. I realized after a point if the pugs are used to something, it might eventually be better to just go with that even if it's not theoretically the best (e.g. having to always go to 4th infernals isn't that fun but at least you may always reach t).

[rogoth]

You literally *only* do singletarget damage on Archimonde at the moment in P1. That's the entire point of the current meta of lusting P1. Doomfires die due to passive cleave atm.

Do you mean that we're not *going* to be doing pure singletarget damage?

on PTR, the group i was in doing mythic mannoroth we couldn't get out of p1 due to tanks being 1 shot by glaive, and the nerf on gorefiend's grasp made dealing with imps a challenge to say the least, and this was a group that has 13/13 mythic on farm, it was more an issue with the whole vast removal of key and core abilities that were used to mitigate these boss abilities that was the problem. like no IBF on blood DK's anymore, and no raid buff cooldowns to help mitigate the incoming damage.

[Deleted]

They've nerfed the imps landing damage in today's notes. They should be able to be killed by just making a relatively small stack. I suppose it can't be a full 1-point stack but maybe a partial /range 2 or 3 would be safe.

[h4rr0d]

In fairness Dizzee, anyone who progressed Archi after the Ilvl buffs (and needed them to kill him - that is, a lack of performance was holding them back, not time/effort) likely would never benefit from going with a 1-doomfire strat in P1. It makes two entirely trivial phases more trivial (and make no mistake, with the added HP that means you can't get 1 shot by 2x lasers etc, P2 is extremely trivial even with 2 doomfires), and makes the only difficult phase harder, because bad performance means fuckups on infernals, and no lust/ring on the sets of 4 infernals means wipes - even after 3 farm kills. So I'd have to agree with Tobin there, you'd be a fool to change a working strategy around if you haven't suddenly gotten a ton of extra DPS.

Dunno, going 1 doomfire made the fight a lot easier for us.

[Deleted]

Dunno, going 1 doomfire made the fight a lot easier for us.

It's kinda subjective because it depends also on endurance/fatigue. It's not really hard to do each individual step in a properly laid out strategy of 2 doomfires and ring on the 1st infernals but added together you may increase the probability of total failure by prolonging the fight. In that sense making the 3rd phase shittier in exchange for a smaller fight could be an advantage.

- - - Updated - - -

I personally found all strategies talked about doable. I was debating with my guild towards one or the other at times but I never claimed that one or the other would leave it unkillable. I think any guild that can kill it with a strategy can eventually kill it with another even if one of them is slightly easier or harder.

[Joozt]

on PTR, the group i was in doing mythic mannoroth we couldn't get out of p1 due to tanks being 1 shot by glaive, and the nerf on gorefiend's grasp made dealing with imps a challenge to say the least, and this was a group that has 13/13 mythic on farm, it was more an issue with the whole vast removal of key and core abilities that were used to mitigate these boss abilities that was the problem. like no IBF on blood DK's anymore, and no raid buff cooldowns to help mitigate the incoming damage.

What is the max ilvl gear you seen drop on PTR?

[KaPe]

They've nerfed the imps landing damage in today's notes. They should be able to be killed by just making a relatively small stack. I suppose it can't be a full 1-point stack but maybe a partial /range 2 or 3 would be safe.

You could already do it on live, we killed it several times with 0-1 DKs. You simply stand in a small circle, so no one gets hit by 5+ imps at once and nuke them down. No defensive cooldowns were needed for imps themselves, although you'd still use them in phase two since it combo'd with other abilities. Sure, it was an inferior method, but when there was no other option... Nerfing the damage will simply let people stack tighter and still survive.

[Deleted]

It's funny that you attempted that bait by replying to him, considering Dracodraco has posted multiple times how stupid it was for guilds in progress to go 1 doomfire.

well it worked better for us and we got the kill with lust in phase 1 and the part with voidstars, infernals , dance wre usaly is lusted in ph3 we had quite few wipes due that, but as i renember mainly due people not targeting them or forgetting to use pots/cds on them.

And rl wasnt keen on lusting in last phase anyway for some reason.

[Deleted]

You could already do it on live, we killed it several times with 0-1 DKs. You simply stand in a small circle, so no one gets hit by 5+ imps at once and nuke them down. No defensive cooldowns were needed for imps themselves, although you'd still use them in phase two since it combo'd with other abilities. Sure, it was an inferior method, but when there was no other option... Nerfing the damage will simply let people stack tighter and still survive.

Yeah and now with the -30% nerf of incoming damage and HP of players being the same not even a couple of exploded imps would matter that much.

[Tennis]

Most high end guilds use loot council unless they're running PL for whatever reason.

High end sure. But Middle of the pack or semi hardcore certainly have had their issues.

[Deleted]

Yeah and now with the -30% nerf of incoming damage and HP of players being the same not even a couple of exploded imps would matter that much.

if you mean surving them 1-2 doesnt matter to much even now, and prevalor 1imp could explode but your prolly wouldnt wipe due that alone (only if its comboed with other things)

[Deleted]

if you mean surving them 1-2 doesnt matter to much even now, and prevalor 1imp could explode but your prolly wouldnt wipe due that alone (only if its comboed with other things)

Oh yeah 1-2 explosions were easily doable, though stressing, it's just that now it might not even be felt beyond the "oh that, my passive healing will top it in a second".

[rogoth]

What is the max ilvl gear you seen drop on PTR?

titaqnforged ilvl 745 base, 755 with upgrades, in all slots, got a new "cloak of hideous unity" from zakuun on mythic, it rolled titanforged 745, better than my currently equipped version just on raw stats alone, i'm not sure how weapons on archimonde will work, since titanforged is +15 ilvls on the base, so for weapons that means they would roll 750, with 760 after upgrades, which means they wouldn't be able to be enchanted at all, since all weapon enchants have a cap off now of ilvl 749 to stop you using them on artefact weapons since weapon enchants are gone in legion and are taken over by amulet enchant effects.