[Spoilers] Xal'atath Voiceover

[Lupinemancer]

Yogg and C'Thun are both dead

Fine whatever, if it makes you feel better about yuorself kid, then let's say that, as long as we can stop this pointless argument.

[Qualia]

Yogg and C'Thun are both alive

In your headcanon, I'm sure they are. Meanwhile, to people who checked out canonical information, they are dead at the moment. People've brought clear statements - more than once - that they are dead from Blizzard *outside of the game* even (thus, not susceptible to characters being biased / misinformed).

[Lupinemancer]

There is a blue post saying that they are indeed dead, and their deaths caused the cataclysm to happen. If that has changed or not is up to debate, and will hopefully explained in game or in the next chronicles volume. Should be stated that Xal'atath says that the only remaining one is N'zoth, implying that they are dead enough that they won't be able interfere with Azeroth anymore.

And yet they are able to still whisper and act. We saw C'thun still "alive" in the comics after we killed him, take that as you want.

It was not necessarily anything related to their deaths which caused the Cataclysm. Consequences of killing an Old God were explored with the sha, and then expanded upon in Chronicle, which states that the only reason killing the Old Gods would destroy Azeroth is because they had embedded themselves too deep in the planet's crust for the Pantheon to tear them out without causing permanent damage to the world-soul.

Then explain this, smart-ass! Officially confirmed that their deaths had nothing to do with the Cataclysm. Besides, Deathwing caused the Cataclysm, now you are just making fake facts. Get your Lore straight.

- - - Updated - - -

not this again, they are dead.
y'shaarj, yog and c'thun are dead, gone, lived their lifes.
how many times do we have to go through this?

As many times as it takes for people to understand that they are still acting up and whispering. Call it what you want.

- - - Updated - - -

In your headcanon, I'm sure they are. Meanwhile, to people who checked out canonical information, they are dead at the moment.

Well considering the fact that the comics, showed C'thun still alive after he was killed, means the actual canon which I've read up upon, says he is alive. In your headcanon he might be dead and that's fine. But in the canon lore, they are still alive cuz we didn't actually killed their bodies, only their manifestations.

[Qualia]

And yet they are able to still whisper and act. We saw C'thun still "alive" in the comics after we killed him, take that as you want.

As many times as it takes for people to understand that they are still acting up and whispering. Call it what you want.

Being able to whisper and act does NOT mean they are alive. A big example is MU Gul'dan. He was just an orc, he is not an Old Gods, his connection to the void is close to non existant, he is not even a demon. He is dead, teared apart, his skull used as a magic tool. That didn't prevent his skull from actively communicating with its user. Y'Shaarj is said to be "very, very, very dead", yet its heart still whispered and remnants of its corpse still spawn the Sha. Compared to that, Yogg's remnants only spawn echoes, which is a lot less impressive. Being able to whisper and spawn things is not proof of being alive in WoW, Old Gods or not. Well, I guess to you, "very very very dead" isn't enough to be considered dead, maybe next time Blizzard should use "very very very....<copy pasting a full page of "very">... dead" to make it convincing enough?

And yeah, C'Thun must be alive in the comics. I mean, in the comics the omnipresent narrator clearly stated he was alive... oh wait... they said that he is dead. I wonder which "actual canon" you've read upon is, then.
Please kindly check your canon information. I'm interested in seeing where in the comics that the narrator said C'Thun is alive.

Edit: since you just put this in, I missed it the first time:

Then explain this, smart-ass! Officially confirmed that their deaths had nothing to do with the Cataclysm. Besides, Deathwing caused the Cataclysm, now you are just making fake facts. Get your Lore straight.

Firstly, let get you clear that it was NOT an official statement. What you quoted was an user post in Wowpedia. You should have realized that official statements tend to have their sources cited, which that one did not. Meanwhile, you see, just a line above that quote of yours, was Metzen and Afrasiabi stated that their deaths caused Cataclysm. Deathwing was one of the actors, and possibly the main actor. He was not the only actor, simple at that. I mean, if you weren't intentionally selective with quoting, you clearly missed the paragraph right above that user post - with a source even:

During the Blizzcon 2010: Quests and lore panel one of the people asking questions at the panel brought up the Tribunal of Ages event, pointing out that despite us players having "killed" two of the Old Gods, "we're not really seeing much calamity happening." The response from Afrasiabi was a succinct, "Have you played any Cataclysm?" followed by a, "You know, where the world blows up? Because of the Old Gods?" from Metzen

Maybe that explains how you found "actual canon" stating that they were alive - they were either outdated, unreliable narrator, or outright fan theory, yet you considered them "actual canon" anyway. I'm very open to the possibility that Blizzard had changed, or is going to change the Old Gods' death status - however, I haven't seen any "actual canon" stating so.

[Hisholyness]

Xal'atah is probably like Slaanesh, an aspiring to be Old God. When you kill a bunch of Old Gods or their minions she probably forms and becomes a raid boss/new old god

[Lupinemancer]

Being able to whisper and act does NOT mean they are alive. A big example is MU Gul'dan. He was just an orc, he is not an Old Gods, his connection to the void is close to non existant, he is not even a demon. He is dead, teared apart, his skull used as a magic tool. That didn't prevent his skull from actively communicating with its user. Y'Shaarj is said to be "very, very, very dead", yet its heart still whispered and remnants of its corpse still spawn the Sha. Compared to that, Yogg's remnants only spawn echoes, which is a lot less impressive. Being able to whisper and spawn things is not proof of being alive in WoW, Old Gods or not.

And yeah, C'Thun must be alive in the comics. I mean, in the comics the omnipresent narrator clearly stated he was alive... oh wait... Please kindly check your canon information. I'm interested in seeing where in the comics that the narrator said C'Thun is alive.

Blizzard themselves confirmed that the Old Gods exists outside Life and Death, even if killed, they don't die. At least not by mortals. Even if they have changed that, it doesn't change the fact that the real Old Gods are still out there as all we killed was their manifestations, not their actual bodies. Similar to Sargeras and his Avatar. How many times do I have to tell you this before you understnad?

[Deleted]

goodness.
im not gonna debate this shit another time.
we had this so many times already...
they are dead, if you want to believe it or not, i dont care.
also, the minions in the ulduar scenario are echoes.

I don't really care either way. I have no problem with them being dead *and* still able to act. We have spirits, undead, ressurections, spectres, shadows, echoes, whatever. At any rate, they're out of the "consume the world" game apparently.

[kencloudli]

I'm actually quite excited to play Shadow Priest in Legion. Love the Old God/Void lore.

[Sylvaeres]

Fine whatever, if it makes you feel better about yuorself kid, then let's say that, as long as we can stop this pointless argument.

there's no argument. They're dead. Your ability to comprehend that is irrelevant

[Zerones]

Xal'atah is probably like Slaanesh, an aspiring to be Old God. When you kill a bunch of Old Gods or their minions she probably forms and becomes a raid boss/new old god

If you are literally the claw of a old god, I don't think you're aspiring to be a old god.

[Qualia]

Blizzard themselves confirmed that the Old Gods exists outside Life and Death, even if killed, they don't die. At least not by mortals. Even if they have changed that, it doesn't change the fact that the real Old Gods are still out there as all we killed was their manifestations, not their actual bodies. Similar to Sargeras and his Avatar. How many times do I have to tell you this before you understnad?

Get your fact checked - Blizzard themselves didn't confirm it. It was said by Herald Volazj, a faceless NPC in Old Kingdom (the actual quote being "They do not die; they do not live. They are outside the cycle."). Thus, it is susceptible to it being biased - or unreliable narrator, if we want to cite the trope. Characters in game being mistaken is not something rare - like how Krasus actually thought that Sargeras couldn't defeat the Old Gods, while the Dragons would have a chance, or you get that record saying that C'Thun and a Titan battled and both fell during Vanilla, only for it to be concluded with the release of Chronicle to be some misinformation by Priest... (whatever its name is, I forgot), the first boss of AQ40. Both of those statements might be considered canon when they were released, but they are no longer true now that Blizzard had said something contradicted to it (or flat out refuted that as overestimating).

I'm not sure where you get that "all we killed was their manifestations, not their actual bodies", other than fan theory (or using cruder definition, headcanon). Moreover, regardless what we killed - their bodies, their head, their brain, their whatever, it's a fact that Word of God stated that they are dead. Thus, they are dead, until Blizzard give another statement changing that. Metzen and Afrasiabi said they are dead. That's about it. Not sure how you are trying to argue against Word of God. They could say that Sargeras is actually a space bunny, and he will be one until they changed their statement. How many times do I have o tell you this before you understand? I have shown you conclusive proof - in form of both the comics and the interview clips - that Blizzard stated the Old Gods are dead. Feel free to give me a more recent statement from Blizzard that they are alive. If you can't find any, I suggest you accept the fact that they are dead, like Rutts said

I don't really care either way. I have no problem with them being dead *and* still able to act. We have spirits, undead, ressurections, spectres, shadows, echoes, whatever. At any rate, they're out of the "consume the world" game apparently.

[TheFirstOnes]

That dagger speaks about Eternal Conflict and Naaru are part of it. So my theory:

Naaru and Void Lords battled between each other for millennia. Their leader was incarnation of Light the God of the Naaru and the strongest one who fought agaist darkness in front lines. But one day he was defeated and Void lords won the battle and Naaru fled away. They started to pour Old Gods into our realm and corrupting the worlds. And after that Pantheon things happened. Naaru wanted at least save some lives and they helped some of the races to escape (like Draeneis). But they didn´t know that their god survived .... fraction of his spirit fled away and he was connected with another spirit ... Illidan Stormrage (amber eyes). and I think, that Naaru finally found their master, but he has to be awaken/activated somehow. So Illidan has to embrace his inner "beign" pure of light or something like that.

And that´s the task for Xera.

That's actually the most well thought out theory i've ever seen in my life. SO good, that it might actually be true. But please...I wanted that to be anduin. They ruined what prophets lessons was going to do with anduin man.

[JTHMRulez1]

One of the possible, yes. Like Brann theoryzing that naga attacked Gilneas. Now we know that to be false.

Those theories have zero things in common apart from being theories. I don't understeand this comparation

Sure blizzard might retcon in tewn new old gods when it is confortable for them and turn Thrall into a light aligned old god or something.

You can't just disregard any lore that you don't like by saying "It will get retconned when they need it"

but at present we have one living old god and 3 dead ones.

One of Xal'atath possible origins according to its artifact history is that it was part of the fifth Old God that the rest killed.

[Qualia]

Those theories have zero things in common apart from being theories. I don't understeand this comparation

His point is that it was stated clearly in game to be a theory. In other words, it might or might not be true, just like every other theories in game. It isn't definitive. However, we do have another source - this one being 100% true for now - stating that there were only four Old Gods landed on Azeroth. It might or might not be changed later, but for now, Chronicle lore still hold, thus the theory of Xal'atath's origin was another unknown Old God is just an incorrect theory.

[Lupinemancer]

Ok ok, guess I got a little upset. I apologize, this isn't like me.

But we don't actually know whether or not the Old Gods are still alive, some sources state they are still alive as we only killed their physical manifestations and not their actual bodies. This is evident with C'thun still being able to whisper to his minions, and by the mysterious whispers we hear in Ulduar during the Legion Pre-patch Questlines, which sounds like Yogg-saron. The fact that most lore sides, such as WoWpedia still stated them as either Alive, Unknown or Eternal, means they might still be alive.
But untill Blizzard officially confirms it, we can't say for sure if they are dead or alive. And since we know Blizzard has been known for retconning their lore before, anything is possible.

there's no argument. They're dead. Your ability to comprehend that is irrelevant

Now now, there is no reason to be so rude. Unlike you, it seems, I'm actually constantly researching the Lore, and is always up-to-date with the info I can find. And all the info I could find states that they are still alive. And in the future, don't be so rude kid.
Fact is, we don't know if they are dead. But since you are so sure, how about you give a source to your statement?

[Combatbutler]

Ok ok, guess I got a little upset. I apologize, this isn't like me.

But we don't actually know whether or not the Old Gods are still alive, some sources state they are still alive as we only killed their physical manifestations and not their actual bodies. This is evident with C'thun still being able to whisper to his minions, and by the mysterious whispers we hear in Ulduar during the Legion Pre-patch Questlines, which sounds like Yogg-saron. The fact that most lore sides, such as WoWpedia still stated them as either Alive, Unknown or Eternal, means they might still be alive.
But untill Blizzard officially confirms it, we can't say for sure if they are dead or alive. And since we know Blizzard has been known for retconning their lore before, anything is possible.

They are as much alive as mortals are after they die, their soul essence endures. So that is not really something special, but their corpses still hold power even though they are gone. The void lords might be able to create new bodies for them and haul them back into the material universe at one point, but we don't know for certain.

[Lupinemancer]

They are as much alive as mortals are after they die, their soul essence endures. So that is not really something special, but their corpses still hold power even though they are gone. The void lords might be able to create new bodies for them and haul them back into the material universe at one point, but we don't know for certain.

I find it ironic that people seems to be convinced they are dead, even going far as to state it has been officially confirmed, yet refuses to provide a source. If all people have to back up their "statements" are their words, then their statements are as real as they claim mine are.

[Sylvaeres]

Ok ok, guess I got a little upset. I apologize, this isn't like me.

But we don't actually know whether or not the Old Gods are still alive, some sources state they are still alive as we only killed their physical manifestations and not their actual bodies. This is evident with C'thun still being able to whisper to his minions, and by the mysterious whispers we hear in Ulduar during the Legion Pre-patch Questlines, which sounds like Yogg-saron. The fact that most lore sides, such as WoWpedia still stated them as either Alive, Unknown or Eternal, means they might still be alive.
But untill Blizzard officially confirms it, we can't say for sure if they are dead or alive. And since we know Blizzard has been known for retconning their lore before, anything is possible.



Now now, there is no reason to be so rude. Unlike you, it seems, I'm actually constantly researching the Lore, and is always up-to-date with the info I can find. And all the info I could find states that they are still alive. And in the future, don't be so rude kid.
Fact is, we don't know if they are dead. But since you are so sure, how about you give a source to your statement?

you're right, that was a bit much, I apologize. I'm used to dealing with the volatile people on here, nd i've developed a habit of assuming each person is such. As far as research, I believe a dev said they are both dead

[Qualia]

I find it ironic that people seems to be convinced they are dead, even going far as to state it has been officially confirmed, yet refuses to provide a source. If all people have to back up their "statements" are their words, then their statements are as real as they claim mine are.

Refuses to provide a source? What are you talking about? Are you trolling and I'm just too trusting to realize it? Or did you miss all the official information stated directly by Blizzard that people have linked? Let me do a quick gather of those in case you are serious:
- Firstly, the comics. You use it to claim that C'Thun was alive, yet the point of the comics was that Cho'gall was attempting to resurrect C'Thun. You don't resurrect someone who is alive. Furthermore, this page (click) clearly stated that C'Thun is dead ("The Old God, C'Thun, who once lay beneath the ancient ruins, is dead").
- Secondly, the interview. Here is the source (click), the clip at exact moment when someone asked why haven't we seen any calamity happening with two Old Gods (C'Thun and Yogg) down even when there was the theory that if they are dealt with, it'd be doomsday. Metzen and Afrasiabi answered with "Have you played any Cataclysm? You know, when the world blows up? Because of the Old Gods". Here is the transcription for that part if you are too lazy to click on the link:

Q: Can you assert if you have any theory about what the name for the next Old God would be, and elaborate a little upon the theory... Because a while ago, you asserted the theory that if the Old Gods were dealt with, that's doomsday and Azeroth would cease to be because of some catastrophic event. But so far, with two down, we're not really seeing much calamity happening.

A: Have you played any Cataclysm?
A: You know, like, when the world blows up? Because of the Old Gods.

Q: Because of the Old Gods???
A: Right.

So yeah, Blizzard, when questioned why nothing has happened after they are dead, answered that the Cataclysm happened because of them. The questioner even double checked to be sure, but the answer remained.
- Thirdly, not C'Thun and Yogg, but more about Y'Shaarj - who still whisper and spawn things - Kosak said he is "safely dead" in one interview and "very, very, very dead" in another, so you know dead things can still whisper and spawn minions.

Not every Old God is still alive and plotting. The Titans actually did kill a lot, so this particular Old God is dead. And is safely dead. Not all of the Old Gods were entombed. (Source)

But Y'shaarj itself is very, very, very dead. (Source)

- Lastly, in-game texts. I'm just bringing this up for the sake of completion. However, I'm aware that these in game quest texts are also susceptible to being misinformation / unreliable narrative, so you can ignore this point if you want.

The walls of Ahn'Qiraj tremble. A force of evil, older than the world itself, has been destroyed.
As you look at the remnants of the colossal abomination your heart nearly freezes. Even in death you can feel the legacy of C'Thun's evil around you.
You have done what was thought to be impossible.

Is that enough official sources for you? All came directly from Blizzard, with link contains the records of the interviews. Blizzard might or might not change their mind later, but at the time being, they are dead. Now, give me a more recent link of a Blizzard employee stating that they (C'Thun / Yogg) are alive if you still believe they are canonically alive.

Most claims about their survival I've seen were based on fan theories revolving around their abilities to be brought back, or that they could whisper to you, or their corpses spawn minions. Surprisingly, these posters seemed to missed the fact that all of those could be done by other dead non-OG beings. Then there are argument based on what the Old Gods' followers stated, which are subjected to unreliable narrator trope, or a 7 years old random musing that Nyarlothoth (the dev who posted) him/herself said "pay no heed". All of these have been proven wrong by more recent canon information, thus, no longer valid.

[Xanesh]

I LOVE the voice of Xal'atath and the comments she (do daggers made from old god claws have genders? xD) makes. I went into Halls of Valor the other day and was cheeky to Odyn and was punished for it. I just wish her 'on kill' comments occurred more often. It would make the slow levelling of shadow priest more entertaining. :P